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Scottish Independance & Possible Huge Oil Discovery

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posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: paraphi

Education, Crime, they're top of the HDI.

Using depression/suicide to measure happiness in incredibly disingenuous. Depression is a disease, a health issue.




posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 06:24 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

So if your people vote No you're gonna blame the 'biased' media now?
I think that's lame, and rather insulting to the average free-thinking Scot, but hey what do I know as a Welsh bloke who lives in England.

...one of the most open and free democratic votes in the world and you are whinging that the media is biased, maybe it's just that most people want to stay in the UK and you don't like it. Unlucky fella, that's just democracy.



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

It would be nice if we Scots were just given the facts on the real issues regards independence. In Scotland at the moment there is an even split so media bias and fear mongering is entirely relevant. When you think about it...without the scare tactics...independence would be a shoo in.

There is also this currency thing which is total madness. Why on Earth does Westminster not say...if the Scots go for independence then currency union would be the best option all round...we can work out the details later. Why is there this punishment element?

If we gain independence, then we could have the best of both worlds. Not at anyone else's expense of course but perhaps in the direction we choose to go. We can keep, I hope, all those benefits we have together. We can still be allies and friends...more than friends really, given our history together.

It feels as though, that if we dare vote for independence then suddenly all this friendship talk flies out the door. It's all petty schoolboy nonsense. You talk about the average free thinking Scot, let me tell you they are thin on the ground. Even some of those that support independence like me have some pretty trivial motivations.

My only reservations in this matter concerns Salmond and his vision for Scotland. My consolations are that at some point we can change things. This can never happen with Westminster.

I don't understand why the people of England don't support our hope for independence. If they truly wished us well then they would be telling us to go for it...and those clever more academic ones would be giving us ideas on how to move forward. There may be some sort of jealousy there...I can't say.

Just wish us well like we do you.
edit on 18-8-2014 by midicon because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 08:06 AM
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a reply to: grainofsand

I don't know the situation of the reporting in the UK but it certainly is possible for the media to be biased and to try and swing a vote. Looking at the press freedom index the UK is 33rd in the world and considered 'satisfactory'. Ireland is ranked 16th and considered 'good' but the media here essentially swung the the last presidential election here. Now the president here is just a figurehead and nobody seems to care. But they basically grilled every candidate except one. Even at that their chosen candidate was in second place, so they made up a fake allegation just before the election that swung the vote. The candidate reacted badly to the allegation but he was under pressure. And it definitely swung the vote, as postal votes from the islands before the debate were in favour of him.

Another referendum here last year springs to mind also, though this was less the media and more how it can be manipulated. There was a referendum that gave the government more powers to investigate things like the banking crisis. Looked set to pass with polls indicating support of 60-70%, but just before the referendum the bar posted scare stories about what it would lead to. There's a ban on campaigning just before the referendum so it wasn't able to be debated properly, and it resulted in the referendum not being passed. Now it may have been a good thing, but it shows how the media can manipulate people into voting, in particular with scare tactics



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: D8ncer

i haven't read all the thread m8 i am not interested in the short term musings of £1000 a yr better off this way and £1800 better of that way , they are all guessing based on non quantifiable facts, and looking only very short term

I am British(English) and I wish you all well whatever you decide.

But I must say their is so much division in the world I think independence would be a step backwards(long term), this world needs to come together more for the good of all, not constantly think about where they drive the wedge in next.

I fear due to troubled history the yes will take it , although i hope not

Good luck

Q



posted on Aug, 21 2014 @ 05:38 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

"the Great British Pound" nice try but actually its called Pound sterling and it belongs to the UK , which does NOT mean England and because we (Scotland ) are in the UK atm it belongs to us too



posted on Aug, 21 2014 @ 05:50 PM
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a reply to: MortlitantiFMMJ

Wow you hit the nail on the head there mate
That is exactly the media representation in Scotland, mostly English owned with a "Scotland" banner on the main page , a sprinkle of "Scottish Reporters " and a condescending attitude
It seems from the chat here that there is a lot of Naw Sayers here which dose not surprise me



posted on Aug, 21 2014 @ 05:54 PM
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a reply to: midicon

simple answer too this question
www.youtube.com...

This is how they lie to you and do you really think they have stopped in the last 30 years????



posted on Aug, 21 2014 @ 06:15 PM
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a reply to: grainofsand
For all your grains of wisdom it is in fact The SNP = The Scottish National Party



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 07:06 AM
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a reply to: Sweevo



"the Great British Pound" nice try but actually its called Pound sterling and it belongs to the UK , which does NOT mean England and because we (Scotland ) are in the UK atm it belongs to us too


Yip, it does belong to you also at present because you are part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
If you vote for independence you won't be a part of the UK so it follows quite logically that you won't be using Sterling.

And why would an independent Scotland want to use a currency which it has absolutely zero say or control over?
As a result a newly independent Scotland's economy and financial policies would still be dictated to by The City of London and you would have even less say on it than you have now.
That's not independence as far as I can see.

For the record; I've never said Sterling was 'England's' and have always referred to it as either the UK's or rUK's.
And I sometimes called it 'the Great British Pound' due to it being known as GBP, which is an abbreviation of Great British Pound, in the universally recognised ISO code.

Why you should have made an issue of it is quite beyond me - or are you just so intent on seeing insults where no insults exist for some peculiar reason?



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 07:37 AM
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Panama has been using the USD illegally for over 100 years and they are doing not to bad.

We will be using the pound like Ireland did for a short period of time until everything is in place for us to use our own currency or Westminster can forget about our share of the debt....If Westminster wants to threaten us, well, we do have a plan B after all.
edit on 22-8-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol
Not using it illegally as dollar isfully tradeable but otherwise you point is correct. There is a full alphabet if plans that are available all with a mix of advantages and disadvantages. What is for certain is that we will have a currency and life will not grind to a halt on independence day.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 08:07 AM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol



Panama has been using the USD illegally for over 100 years and they are doing not to bad.


So, you would have no qualms as a fledgling country about illegally using another country's currency.

I'm sure the international markets would welcome that and be incredibly kind to the newly independent Scotland.



We will be using the pound like Ireland did for a short period of time until everything is in place for us to use our own currency.....


Personally I wouldn't see a problem with that but I'm certain some would.

I just wonder why so many on the 'Yes' side think everything will be agree in their favour and that rUK will bend themselves over backwards to help Scotland - why should rUK underwrite Scotland's independence?



.......or Westminster can forget about our share of the debt....


And what do you think rUK response to that would be?
Do you honestly think it would just sit back and quietly accept that? - there would undoubtedly be repercussions - hardly the best way for a newly independent Scotland to start off.

And again, how do you think the international community would react to such events?



If Westminster wants to threaten us, well, we do have a plan B after all.


And do you really think that would be the end of it.

Really, some sort of economic or trade war with rUK - there would only be one winner - or more than likely no winners, and what would be the point of that?

But no fear, it won't happen.
Why?
Because 'they' won't allow it to happen - it'd cost far too much money and regardless of what you think 'they' will still be in control which ever way Scotland votes.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 08:37 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn
As stated above it is about using a currency illegally it is using it without a full currency union. In short term using pound without cu will possibly work in Scotland's advantage. Long term it needs either its own currency or to be part of the euro.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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lets all vote with our materialist heads on , so we vote NO
because we will lose what we have in front of us , the needs and our wants , and what we are promised

we vote for our own pockets through selfish desires for material wealth which has been instilled in us by the same government to keep an economy afloat.

our rights which we have so tirelessly worked for are being eroded and everything that the government has conceded to its tax payers is being removed , so voting westminster out and the unelected house of lords will allow Scotland to be free of that system of corruption


What about that 56% of english voters and 46% of welsh voters , through the recent poll would show they want our spending cut after referendum , talk about better together !

take that to a national level that would be 31 million people who want Scotland to suffer ! better together aye #in right !

TAXI FOR WESTMINSTER !



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 09:14 AM
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a reply to: ScepticScot



In short term using pound without cu will possibly work in Scotland's advantage.


I understand all that and can appreciate that as a Scotsman that's all that really concerns you, but what does rUK get out of it?
I know that sounds incredibly selfish but isn't that the way the majority of 'Yes' supporters view things, purely from a Scottish perspective?

Are there any risks to rUK if they underwrite a fledgling independent Scotland?
It'd certainly be negligent to the extreme for us not to consider any possible risks.

Everything seems to viewed from Scotland's perspective and what is best for Scotland - and I wholeheartedly understand and accept why that would be for the Scots - but rUK has to protect its interests and get the best possible deal for itself, shouldn't it? Or does looking after one's best interests only apply to Scotland?



Long term it needs either its own currency or to be part of the euro.


As I've said on numerous occasions, the EU will exact a great price from Scotland and I suspect the Euro will be a part of it - good luck with that.

As rUK moves away from the EU it seems inevitable that an independent Scotland will move closer towards it - good luck with that but its certainly something I don't envy you.

Your own currency seems the most sensible, long term option for an independent Scotland.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn
If there is a formal cu then there would need to be a lot of negotiation to protect both parties interest. Not entirely sure a mutually beneficial solution is possible. Scotland would probably want more say in monetary policy than rUK would want to give.
The underwriting banks think us a bit of a red herring and easily resolvable.
In an informal usage don't see any major downside for rUK and would gave benefit of no transaction costs.

EU membership is an odd one as most of Scotland wants eu membership and we are constantly told we cant have it while rUK wants a referendum on leaving.
Cant we just do a straight swap? (jest before the more literal minded go on about eu rules.)


edit on 22-8-2014 by ScepticScot because: make easier to read



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Freeborn




Everything seems to viewed from Scotland's perspective and what is best for Scotland - and I wholeheartedly understand and accept why that would be for the Scots - but rUK has to protect its interests and get the best possible deal for itself, shouldn't it? Or does looking after one's best interests only apply to Scotland?


It is sad that such a defining moment in our history has been somehow tarnished by the nature of the campaign waged by both sides. The SNP have been lacklustre, offered no real alternative vision and been less than transparent. Westminster on the other hand have focused on the negative, to be expected but there has also been the threat element. On the one hand we are the best of friends if we stay in the union, but if we vote for independence then friendship goes out the window.

If I thought that independence would somehow hurt the rest of the UK, I wouldn't vote for it but I see it as a positive. It would shake up the political system perhaps galvanise the English people to call for change. It would be an exciting time for politicians. This is what the UK needs.I can see benefits all round but the risk is really for Scotland, the rest of the UK will carry on just fine.

Wouldn't it be funny, if after a no vote, a major oil find was announced? They would be out on the streets.

Looking after one's own interests doesn't just apply to Scotland but in this instance and situation it is we who have to decide on it. You are correct the rest of the UK should be taken into consideration and have a voice. The voice has been Westminsters saying why we are better together...it hasn't been helped by the unpopular characters presenting it. No one has really spoken about any negative affects, in the economic sense for England, perhaps there are no real fears other than the complexity of it all. I can see a lot of Scots MP's missing the gravy train at Westminster.

Midicon.



posted on Aug, 22 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: midicon

Although the exposure to the vote south of the border has been fairly low profile until recently I have to agree that it seems that the whole "NO" campaign seems very negative. Is anyone talking of the benefits of remaining in the union rather than telling Scotland what you'll lose, what you'll have to pay for and spreading fear?

Meanwhile Salmond and his cohorts seem intent on wanting what is "Devo-Max" in reality and appear to have no answer to the currency issue or membership of the EU.

You see what it will all boil down to for all of us in the end is what will happen to the ordinary man and woman in the street.

A separate currency means added complications for paying suppliers/invoicing customers, paying wages, taxes and Nat. Insurance (which will also probably be different), etc. This will be an added cost to small and even medium level businesses who trade across the borders to deal with. Even the corporate giants who operate across the globe will have an added burden initially (although ultimately will be able to absorb it all). Visits across the border will mean having to consider different currencies and fluctuations in them.

Does that benefit us ordinary Brits?

Because whatever the outcome of the independence vote we should all be looking at what will be of mutual benefit.

However it seems to me that Scotland is being sold on the dream of how oil wealth will solve all the problems the Westminster government ignores from the "YES" campaign. Is that really what will happen? Or it is being frightened into voting "NO" because of the repercussions of what the rUK of will take off you if you leave.

(Oh! & some celebrity club wants you to stay because we like you. Well thank you. But I think we'll still be mates whatever happens).


Hopefully we will have someone decent to vote for in the Eurovision song contest besides our chums in Ireland if the "YES" vote wins. Scotland has produced some decent talent down the decades.

Then maybe we'll eventually see the Scots play in an all British Football League if the "NO" vote wins. The Welsh are already there.

Seriously though, I hope we'll see a wave of change in our political system whatever the outcome of the vote.

We need it.







posted on Aug, 23 2014 @ 03:52 AM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Soloprotocol



Panama has been using the USD illegally for over 100 years and they are doing not to bad.


So, you would have no qualms as a fledgling country about illegally using another country's currency.

I'm sure the international markets would welcome that and be incredibly kind to the newly independent Scotland.



We will be using the pound like Ireland did for a short period of time until everything is in place for us to use our own currency.....


Personally I wouldn't see a problem with that but I'm certain some would.

I just wonder why so many on the 'Yes' side think everything will be agree in their favour and that rUK will bend themselves over backwards to help Scotland - why should rUK underwrite Scotland's independence?



.......or Westminster can forget about our share of the debt....


And what do you think rUK response to that would be?
Do you honestly think it would just sit back and quietly accept that? - there would undoubtedly be repercussions - hardly the best way for a newly independent Scotland to start off.

And again, how do you think the international community would react to such events?



If Westminster wants to threaten us, well, we do have a plan B after all.


And do you really think that would be the end of it.

Really, some sort of economic or trade war with rUK - there would only be one winner - or more than likely no winners, and what would be the point of that?

But no fear, it won't happen.
Why?
Because 'they' won't allow it to happen - it'd cost far too much money and regardless of what you think 'they' will still be in control which ever way Scotland votes.



While nobody would expect the UK to bend over backwards, you'd imagine both sides would sit down and hammer out a solution beneficial to all. You'd have two modern countries, with a history of friendship over the past century as opposed to two countries that have been fighting.

An economic war would be a disaster, and is something you'd hope both sides wouldn't allow to happen. Ireland and Britain had an economic war in the 30s that did nobody any good, especially in the middle of the Great Depression. It hurt people in Ireland the most, with farmers unable to export to Britain and people unable to afford fuel, but it hurt Britain too, particularly the coal industry. The only positive outcome from an Irish perspective was that in negotiations to end the war, the 3 treaty ports which Britain still had access to were handed back, which meant the country could stay out of WW2 (not that I agree entirely with that decision, but it meant that independent foreign policy could be followed), and the payments that were to be made to Britain were reduced to a one off lump sum



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