Scottish Independance & Possible Huge Oil Discovery

a reply to: ScepticScot
You missed the Scottish stereotype out???

*Edit*

Beer - Englishman
Wine - Frenchman
Rugby - Welshman
Women - Irishmen

...in a standard attempt to avoid any confusion.

a reply to: grainofsand

I feel more 'Bro' with anyone from islands to the West of mainland Europe than anywhere else.

Couldn't agree more.
Give me anyone from these islands over those from the 'mainland'.
I mean that as no insult to our continental neighbours, I've met some great people from there and had some wonderful times, but there is a connection and commonality that links us that is very hard to describe.

...if we embraced our 'Irish and British Isles' tribe a bit more I reckon we'd kick more arse than as individual tribes on neighbouring islands who happen to live next to each other.

I'd say we need to concentrate more on the many things that unite us rather than bicker, argue and fight over the few things that divide us.

a reply to: Freeborn
While I sometimes may, or may not, make a reasoned choice to love the adrenaline rush of a fight, I do not see the 'kicking arse' together thing as fighting the EU, or anyone else for that matter...much more about setting an example of different yet deeply linked tribes working together.
*Edit*
...'kicking arse' meaning showing the world how 'being friends' can actually be pulled off...Our islands to the West of mainland Europe are a good example for our crazy world and we should enjoy and celebrate our strengths through differences/history much more than we do, in my opinion.

a reply to: stumason

Any of the metrics posted above. Obviously there's a problem with the current recession but the economy is growing again, and despite the trouble it still performs well in education, quality of life, etc. No reason why Scotland couldn't be as good as the Scandinavian countries or Ireland when it comes to these metrics.

Regarding our shared history, I'd agree. We have far more in common on these islands than with continental Europe. Put any 2 people from any part of these islands together in a bar and they'd likely get on like a house on fire. I'd argue we have more in common with the US, Canada, Australia, NZ than Europe.

If Scotland Votes No on September the 18th i propose we change the lyrics to the Song "Scotland the Brave" to "Scotland the Shat it"...Anyone else agree??

originally posted by: MortlitantiFMMJ
No reason why Scotland couldn't be as good as the Scandinavian countries or Ireland when it comes to these metrics.

Norway is oft quoted as the "model" the Independence camp think Scotland will achieve. However, what part of the Norwegian model is actually achievable by a nation which is not Scandinavian in character or culture?

We can start by asserting that Norway is twice as expensive than Scotland and the Norwegians do not earn twice as much as the bog-standard Scot. How many Scots would be prepared to pay more for energy, beer, whiskey, rent, etc?

www.numbeo.com...

Further, where are the Norwegians better than the UK? Even in Norway the costly welfare state is being cut back.

Regards

You heard the latest, this isn't even Clair Ridge...

www.oilandgaspeople.com...

a reply to: paraphi
You can assert that if you like it isn't correct. The web site you have linked to does not state that Norway is twice as expensive as Scotland!
Anyway if you look at any index of standard of living and quality of life Norway is far ahead of the UK. Not to mention debt..

originally posted by: djz3ro
You heard the latest, this isn't even Clair Ridge...

www.oilandgaspeople.com...

But still the Stupid will still vote No.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
But still the Stupid will still vote No.

Absolutely. Only the enlightened, intelligent people will vote "yes". Scotland, after the referendum will be a divided place, presumably with the thickies on one side and the righteous on the other.

Regards

a reply to: Soloprotocol
Wow, you call those who may vote No, people who shat it, and stupid, in the same page.
Such negative campaigning, I wonder are you a typical example of the average Yes voter, and hope you will accept the result of this democratically decided vote...and more importantly, let it finally be put to bed for a generation or 3 if/when you lose.
I doubt it though.

a reply to: grainofsand

If the vote is a close call it may create a little unrest. People like myself, that had never considered the idea before, now have it firmly implanted.

There is an element of ignorance and cowardice in the voting populace. Perhaps that's the norm. There is ignorance of the real issues and the cowardice to embrace change. The success of the campaign of fear embarked upon by the powers that be attest to that.

The strange thing with the no campaign is that they have nothing really substantial to offer other than fear and threats.

The truth is we are not better together. I for one don't like the way the UK presents itself to the world. I don't like what we represent. If Scotland can somehow choose a different direction then I am all for it.

I got my polling card today...

a reply to: grainofsand
As the Media up here has, since day one," shown total bias against the yes vote, i have no doubt we will lose, but i'll vote Yes because i couldn't live with myself knowing i was a Traitor to my country when asked to do the right thing.

Not one country ever has turned down it's chance to be independent when given the choice...We will be the first and what a bloody embarrassment that will be. I will be ashamed to call myself a Scot.

And i dont want to here you coming out with the..Oh, "Blaming the media already Crap"..I read the Scottish News papers (Mirror Group..Hmmm)..I listen to Scottish Radio, i watch Scottish News and the BBC and believe me...It couldn't be MORE Biased if it tried and i wont forget nor forgive them for it.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
And i dont want to here you coming out with the..Oh, "Blaming the media already Crap"..I read the Scottish News papers (Mirror Group..Hmmm)..I listen to Scottish Radio, i watch Scottish News and the BBC and believe me...It couldn't be MORE Biased if it tried and i wont forget nor forgive them for it.

Yep, the excuses are already lining up. It was the bias media and stupid, cowardly people that did it for the "yes" campaign. Not the fact that the idea was flawed. There's loads of media out there overtly supporting the "yes" and "no" campaigns, including public money supporting the "yes" campaign through Scottish Government (SNP) activities.

Contrary to what some people believe, the masses are not unintelligent. They are capable of understanding the arguments from both sides and the "yes" sides has not articulated a good enough case yet, at least if you believe the opinion polls. In fact, the "yes" camp seem to be treating people as stupid by not coming clean on e.g. currency, tax and all that.

Regards

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
a reply to: grainofsand
As the Media up here has, since day one," shown total bias against the yes vote, i have no doubt we will lose, but i'll vote Yes because i couldn't live with myself knowing i was a Traitor to my country when asked to do the right thing.

Not one country ever has turned down it's chance to be independent when given the choice...We will be the first and what a bloody embarrassment that will be. I will be ashamed to call myself a Scot.

There have been a number of referendums where the population voted against independence to hide your potential embarrassment.

Quebec 1980 and 1995
New Caledonia 1987
Montenegro 1992
Bermuda 1995
Nevis 1998

But I wish you and the Scottish people well whatever choice you make.

My real hope is that the result will not just be a positive one for Scotland but that it will also shake up the current stagnant political system we have in the rUK. My fear is that we now have far too many 'career politicians' and powerful corporations working behind the scenes for that to happen.

a reply to: paraphi

That site doesn't back up what you're saying. It says that local purchasing power in the UK is 0.79% higher in the UK, which is very little in the grand scheme of things and doesn't take into account the superior services provided in Norway.

originally posted by: MortlitantiFMMJ
That site doesn't back up what you're saying. It says that local purchasing power in the UK is 0.79% higher in the UK, which is very little in the grand scheme of things and doesn't take into account the superior services provided in Norway.

Yes, this is the point I was trying to make. What "superior services" does Norway offer. Please bear in mind I have been to Norway and it is not that different, except it is very expensive.

Regards

originally posted by: mirageman

I stand corrected, though..

Quebec 1980 and 1995

Quebec is not a country.

Montenegro

Gained independence in 2006

New Caledonia

New Caledonia is to hold a second referendum on independence between 2014 and 2018
As for the other two...Hardly in the same position financially as Scotland.

a reply to: paraphi
Because your experience of having been there is more convincing that all the standard of living indexes that put Norway far ahead of the UK.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Just say where Norway is "far ahead". That's what I am asking. Where is this the case.

Norway has a health system with quite a bit of private. Outcomes no better than NHS.
Norway is more expensive - fancy paying £7 for a pint or £2 for a chocolate bar?
Norway spend on welfare is broadly similar per capita.
Income equality is worse in the UK, but not by much.
Tax is higher in Norway, as is median income is higher.
Norway has slightly more suicides per capita, proving that some people are less happy!
Norway has significantly longer life than Scots but about the same for the UK as a whole.

Regards