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Scottish Independance & Possible Huge Oil Discovery

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posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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a reply to: sapien82



Well I think we will fair just fine.....


I have absolutely no doubt Scotland is more than capable of managing its own affairs - the only issue is whether it is Scotland's best option or not - and only the Scots can answer that.



......, given that we can and will have a currency union


No, you won't.
And why on earth would you want it?
Why would an independent nation want to be tied to a currency and economy it has absolutely zero control or influence over?
If you do have currency union then Scotland's economic and financial well being will still largely be dictated to by the UK's stability and performance - that's not independence.
Have you own currency - as you and many other's rightly say, you are more than capable of looking after your own affairs.....aren't you?

And at the very least I think its plain for anyone to see that there's enough uncertainty over the currency issue to warrant considering a Plan B, anyone in their right mind would - so why aren't Salmond et al even considering the possibility?
Like I've said before; Salmond is neither stupid nor naïve, so that just leaves deceitfulness - and that leads one to consider his overall motivations.

Salmond wants Devo-Max, that way he remains First Minister - an independent Scotland could well mean political obscurity for Salmond.



....much like Gibraltar who use the Gibraltar pound and thats sterling and they are largely independent and have their own government


You are seriously likening Scotland to Gibraltar?
That is the sum of your ambitions?
No disrespect to Gibraltar but..... a nation of over 30,000 square miles and a population approaching 5,500,000 and a tiny rock where 30,000 people live within its 2.3 square miles and whose continued existence is solely reliant on the UK and its strength and resolve.



Why cant Scotland?


You may aspire to be like Gibraltar, I'm certain most of your countrymen and women see things quite different regardless of which side of the fence they sit on.




posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: Freeborn

I was just highlighting the fact that Gibraltar have a currency union with the UK and are largely independent
as most of the deabte was on the why Scotland weren't allowed to have a currency union, when other nations share the pound sterling and we were specifically told its not possible when it clearly is!

I'm sure Gibraltar is a lovely place and wonderful people and they seem to do just fine I wasn't talking about their aspirations just the fact they have the pound sterling

Salmond has repeatedly said he only has Scotland and its peoples best interests at heart why would he decieve us if independence could spell the end of his political career, we would likely vote someone else into power!

Despite all the no campaign , the media bias and the uncertainty with the economic future , we can and will do just fine, our country has survived rough times before under corrupt governments.

Im sure the people of Scotland will vote for independence and we shall all see how well we do!
and Im sure you will love coming to visit on our independence day celebrations , one thing I can assure you is the hangover will be brutal



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Cruithneach

For once, words fail me - you are, obviously, just taking the piss, aren't you?



Absolutely not, English bastard. YOU CAN TAKE OUR LIVES, BUT YOU CAN NEVER TAKE...... OUR FREEDOM!!!!

God bless Scotland, one of the greatest nations on this earth. A proud and noble people.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: Cruithneach

hey maybe English but for aww ye ken he probably has a dad and kens him well!
edit on 11-8-2014 by sapien82 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:26 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82
I was just highlighting the fact that Gibraltar have a currency union with the UK and are largely independent


Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory (BOT), so their relationship is massively different from an independent Scotland. BOTs are under the sovereignty of the UK. That's precisely what an independent Scotland will not be!

Regards



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: sapien82



I was just highlighting the fact that Gibraltar have a currency union with the UK and are largely independent


Gibraltar is a British Overseas Territory, it isn't an independent nation - its impossible to liken the two.



as most of the deabte was on the why Scotland weren't allowed to have a currency union, when other nations share the pound sterling and we were specifically told its not possible when it clearly is!


But yet again I ask; why would you want to?
Why would you want to tie yourself to a currency you have absolutely no say or control over?

And you still haven't responded to the point about it being prudent to even consider a Plan B. In fact I'd suggest its incredibly negligent to consider it.
And let's remember Salmond's previous thoughts on Sterling;



In an interview with Spanish television, the First Minister said there is a strong argument for making the switch as the economic crisis causes Sterling's value to plummet.

Mr Salmond has previously insisted that an independent Scotland would keep the Pound but, chuckling to himself, told his Catalan interviewer that "Sterling is sinking like a stone".


www.telegraph.co.uk...

Now as much as I dislike Cameron, all he stands for and represents and the system that allows him to exist as PM, the very fact that Salmond has done the U-turn of all U-turns is proof positive of one of the benefits of the Union - it's currency, something he's now apparently so desperate to keep that he won't even consider alternative options.



I'm sure Gibraltar is a lovely place and wonderful people and they seem to do just fine I wasn't talking about their aspirations just the fact they have the pound sterling


Yes, because it is a British Overseas Territory and not an independent nation and its very existence is solely reliant on that one single fact.
And I know Gibraltar is a great place with wonderful people, I certainly hope I haven't suggested anything other.



Salmond has repeatedly said he only has Scotland and its peoples best interests at heart why would he decieve us if independence could spell the end of his political career, we would likely vote someone else into power!


What a politician says publicly and believes privately aren't necessarily the same thing - I'm certain you realise that.
If Scotland gets Devo-Max I can see Salmond and The Nats surviving with at least a prominent role in domestic Scottish issues. If you go with the 'Yes' campaigners then I can see them fading into obscurity - they would have served their purpose.



Despite all the no campaign ,....


Who are simply campaigning as strongly as the 'Yes' campaign - they both seem to be as blinkered and one-sided in their approach as the other, but surely that's what we'd all expect given the passionate nature of the subject.



....the media bias.....


Last time I was in Scotland I can honestly say I never noticed any particular bias either way......and whilst its been reported on here in England its hardly headline news and there's no particular bias that I can see. Others may disagree.



....and the uncertainty with the economic future ,....


Again, which makes Salmond's refusal to even consider a Plan B seem quite negligent to my mind.



we can and will do just fine, our country has survived rough times before under corrupt governments.


As I've said many times before; Yes, I too am certain Scotland will 'survive' and is perfectly capable to manage its own affairs, the only question is if that is Scotland's best option - pretty straight forward really.



and Im sure you will love coming to visit on our independence day celebrations , one thing I can assure you is the hangover will be brutal


Always enjoy my frequent visits to Scotland....and I assure you I hold my own when it comes to celebrating anything - maybe one day we'll have a chance to share a 'few' sociables.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:31 PM
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a reply to: Cruithneach



Absolutely not, English bastard.


Class - I suspect every Scot in this thread is cringing reading this.



YOU CAN TAKE OUR LIVES, BUT YOU CAN NEVER TAKE...... OUR FREEDOM!!!!


You couldn't make it up - oh, that's right, they did, in Hollywood.....and it seems some believe it all.



God bless Scotland, one of the greatest nations on this earth. A proud and noble people.


That is very true.
Have you ever been there or actually spoken to a real, live, genuine Scotsman or woman?

Looks like you will be an entertaining addition to ATS membership - welcome.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:32 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Cruithneach

hey maybe English but for aww ye ken he probably has a dad and kens him well!


Yeah, he might. I'm just joking of course.

I am only an American admirer. I'm happy to lend support with inspiring Braveheart clips. You should know, you have brigades of loyal American supporters. Alba gu brath!



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:39 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Cruithneach



Absolutely not, English bastard.


Class - I suspect every Scot in this thread is cringing reading this.



YOU CAN TAKE OUR LIVES, BUT YOU CAN NEVER TAKE...... OUR FREEDOM!!!!


You couldn't make it up - oh, that's right, they did, in Hollywood.....and it seems some believe it all.



God bless Scotland, one of the greatest nations on this earth. A proud and noble people.


That is very true.
Have you ever been there or actually spoken to a real, live, genuine Scotsman or woman?

Looks like you will be an entertaining addition to ATS membership - welcome.



Americans love that movie. It is a classic and a work of art. On youtube clips, you can always find these indignant English punks commenting, going on and on about how historically inaccurate it is. We don't care! Mel Gibson, motherf*ckers!

You should check out my thread:www.abovetopsecret.com...

I do greatly enjoy doing my small part to fan the flames on the internet.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: Cruithneach



I am only an American admirer.


Quelle surprise.



Alba gu brath!


Those online translators are great aren't they.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: Cruithneach



Americans love that movie. It is a classic and a work of art. On youtube clips, you can always find these indignant English punks commenting, going on and on about how historically inaccurate it is.


Don't worry, we all know too well that 'Americans and historical accuracy' is an oxymoron.



I do greatly enjoy doing my small part to fan the flames on the internet.


But you haven't really have you - its all quite predictable, been done before and pretty clichéd really.

If you want to fan the flames at least try to be original.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 05:59 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Cruithneach



Americans love that movie. It is a classic and a work of art. On youtube clips, you can always find these indignant English punks commenting, going on and on about how historically inaccurate it is.


Don't worry, we all know too well that 'Americans and historical accuracy' is an oxymoron.



I do greatly enjoy doing my small part to fan the flames on the internet.


But you haven't really have you - its all quite predictable, been done before and pretty clichéd really.

If you want to fan the flames at least try to be original.



Cliched? Maybe, but frankly it means nothing coming from a saesnag. You seem to be a little irked, what's got you, saesnag? Us Americans know who the good guys are.

Is my American impudence bothering you? Good. I don't know anything about the politics behind the vote, and I don't care! I'll keep on pissing off saesnags like you!



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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a reply to: Cruithneach



Cliched? Maybe, but frankly it means nothing coming from a saesnag.


Ouch!
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



You seem to be a little irked, what's got you, saesnag?


Not at all, as I said quite predictable.
And please, if you are going to try and insult at least bother to get the correct terminology from your online translator.

Bit sad that you've slightly derailed the thread but, hey, what's new there?



Us Americans know who the good guys are.


You really don't want me to comment on that.



Is my American impudence bothering you?


Not at all - like I've said earlier in the thread, we all have our own fair share of dickheads.



Good. I don't know anything about the politics behind the vote, and I don't care!


Quelle surprise.



I'll keep on pissing off saesnags like you!


But you haven't pissed me off - why would I be pissed off with you making a complete and utter arse of yourself?

But I would like to get back to the topic in hand.

Now if haven't got anything to contribute at least let the adults play nicely.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 06:10 PM
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a reply to: Cruithneach

I think you are going out of your way to be offensive. You are derailing the thread. It's Sassanach, by the way.

Regards



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 06:19 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Cruithneach



Cliched? Maybe, but frankly it means nothing coming from a saesnag.


Ouch!
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



You seem to be a little irked, what's got you, saesnag?


Not at all, as I said quite predictable.
And please, if you are going to try and insult at least bother to get the correct terminology from your online translator.

Bit sad that you've slightly derailed the thread but, hey, what's new there?



Us Americans know who the good guys are.


You really don't want me to comment on that.



Is my American impudence bothering you?


Not at all - like I've said earlier in the thread, we all have our own fair share of dickheads.



Good. I don't know anything about the politics behind the vote, and I don't care!


Quelle surprise.



I'll keep on pissing off saesnags like you!


But you haven't pissed me off - why would I be pissed off with you making a complete and utter arse of yourself?

But I would like to get back to the topic in hand.

Now if haven't got anything to contribute at least let the adults play nicely.



No, I can tell it bothers you that Scottish people have so many fans. It threatens that fragile, tenuous English ego.

I can tell these "better together" folks have a deep-seated fear of Scottish independence. It astounds and confuses them, that Scots would have the audacity to strike out on their own. They greatest thing they fear is a success story, and having to eat their own words and beg Scotland for a piece of the success they come into.

Don't trust these guys, outwardly they may be amiable enough, but in their hearts it's a whole other matter. Just look at all the English on this board alone that have excessively patriotic and nationalist-inspired profiles. They get off on dominating others, even though those days are long gone and England is too weak and impotent to dominate anyone.



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: Cruithneach

I think you are going out of your way to be offensive. You are derailing the thread. It's Sassanach, by the way.

Regards


I think saesneg is the Welsh form. Still, when has an ignorant American like me ever cared about being offensive?



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 06:43 PM
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a reply to: Cruithneach



No, I can tell it bothers you that Scottish people have so many fans. It threatens that fragile, tenuous English ego.


Not at all.
I find it humorous that people hang on desperately to some tenuous link to their ancestry regardless of how remote it is.
And the thing is, so do many Scots and Irish etc - I mean the REAL one's - but they just don't broadcast it.



I can tell these "better together" folks have a deep-seated fear of Scottish independence.


Some may, in fact I'd say some definitely do - I don't.
And I don't think most do.
On what do I base that - my everyday interaction with people from all across the UK.

But I guess your assumptions are far more qualified.

Oh, and did you answer those questions I posed before;
Have you ever met a real, genuine Scots person?
Have you ever been to Scotland?



It astounds and confuses them, that Scots would have the audacity to strike out on their own.


They can do as they please, that's why they are having this referendum.
Last time someone did something similar in the USA you spent 4 years killing each other.



Don't trust these guys, outwardly they may be amiable enough, but in their hearts it's a whole other matter. Just look at all the English on this board alone that have excessively patriotic and nationalist-inspired profiles.


Coming from an American?
And one that posts Braveheart videos in lame attempts to wind people up?

You really couldn't make it up.



They get off on dominating others, even though those days are long gone and England is too weak and impotent to dominate anyone.


Enough of my bedroom secrets....can we please get back to debating the actual topic in hand?



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 07:05 PM
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originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Cruithneach



No, I can tell it bothers you that Scottish people have so many fans. It threatens that fragile, tenuous English ego.


Not at all.
I find it humorous that people hang on desperately to some tenuous link to their ancestry regardless of how remote it is.
And the thing is, so do many Scots and Irish etc - I mean the REAL one's - but they just don't broadcast it.



I can tell these "better together" folks have a deep-seated fear of Scottish independence.


Some may, in fact I'd say some definitely do - I don't.
And I don't think most do.
On what do I base that - my everyday interaction with people from all across the UK.

But I guess your assumptions are far more qualified.

Oh, and did you answer those questions I posed before;
Have you ever met a real, genuine Scots person?
Have you ever been to Scotland?



It astounds and confuses them, that Scots would have the audacity to strike out on their own.


They can do as they please, that's why they are having this referendum.
Last time someone did something similar in the USA you spent 4 years killing each other.



Don't trust these guys, outwardly they may be amiable enough, but in their hearts it's a whole other matter. Just look at all the English on this board alone that have excessively patriotic and nationalist-inspired profiles.


Coming from an American?
And one that posts Braveheart videos in lame attempts to wind people up?

You really couldn't make it up.



They get off on dominating others, even though those days are long gone and England is too weak and impotent to dominate anyone.


Enough of my bedroom secrets....can we please get back to debating the actual topic in hand?



Small, oppressed countries have a tendency to latch on to every small part of their ancestry, unlike people from countries like England, that have a large collective national history to draw on. You should see people from the Balkan countries- the way Albanians go on about Skanderbeg, Serbians go on about Stephan Dusan, their own William Wallace figures.

Never met a Scottish person, but I watched the Scheme. Does that count?

Anyway, I'll take my leave now and go back to silently observing. Scots, remember your ancestors, the mighty Picts and Gaels! They kept out the Romans, you can keep out Westminster bureaucracy.

Have a good day Saesneg.

I shall leave you with a song, written by an Englishman. "The North will rise again" But this time, it won't turn out wrong. "And you can stuff your aid".




edit on 11-8-2014 by Cruithneach because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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a reply to: Cruithneach



Small, oppressed countries have a tendency to latch on to every small part of their ancestry, unlike people from countries like England, that have a large collective national history to draw on.


Scotland most definitely is NOT an oppressed country.
And whilst all the constituent countries and regions of the UK all have their unique history, culture, heritage etc there is also a connection and a commonality that runs deep.



You should see people from the Balkan countries


I've been to a few countries in the Balkan region - interesting places with very proud people - but their situation was far different from that of Scotland.



Never met a Scottish person, but I watched the Scheme. Does that count?


Hardly - but that almost got a smile out of me.



Anyway, I'll take my leave now and go back to silently observing. Scots, remember your ancestors, the mighty Picts and Gaels! They kept out the Romans, you can keep out Westminster bureaucracy.


There is very little difference between the peoples of these islands.
www.prospectmagazine.co.uk...



I shall leave you with a song, written by an Englishman. "The North will rise again" But this time, it won't turn out wrong.


Mark E. Smith, from Manchester, northern England.

Quite strangely, the town where I live is mentioned in the lyrics, something of a rarity.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 04:12 AM
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originally posted by: Freeborn

www.prospectmagazine.co.uk...


Thank you for the excellent link. I find this particularly relevant, "His idea has remained in the books ever since, despite a mountain of other evidence....."

Recently I was talking to David Thomas, www.amazon.com... I've known him for over forty years and I have to say he's chilled out considerably in his wise old age. At one point in the conversation he laughed and said, "Of course, once it's in writing it becomes FACT!"



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