Jesus Christ: The Loving God of the Old AND New Testament

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If faith always manifests into good work then why does James say that faith without works is dead? Why would he tell the faithful to do good works if it is automatically brought with faith anyways? Seems a bit redundant doesn't it?

Because James was trying to get those who thought they were faithful to re-evaluate the true nature of their faith. Obviously dead faith is no faith at all. Faith without love is not faith.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

If faith doesnt develop into good works, then the faith was a lie.

Real faith autonomously motivates acts of love.

So called acts of love void of faith are done to mask lack of faith.

First clean the inside then polish the outside. The Law of Love starts with faith alone and becomes much more.

That is what you've been taught... and nothing more

it has no basis in reality... As I've said numerous times, there are millions, if not billions of people all over the world who have no faith in Jesus, no faith in God, but still do good works their whole life.... NOT to please God, but because it is right...

Its written in the heart of man... and that is ALL MEN not just the ones subscribing to your flavor of Christianity...

You need to give your head good shake and get that brainwashing out of there...

Head and shoulders works I hear....

a reply to: Akragon

That is nothing but what you've been taught...

All you know is what is taught. Would you know the Law of Love had Jesus not disclosed it?

it has no basis in reality...

Really, so you arent what you think? You must be some kind of robot then.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

All you know is what is taught. Would you know the Law of Love had Jesus not disclosed it?

I didn't know it as he teaches, but of course I knew of love.... Children know love soon after they're born...

Then I grew up, had some exposure to the world and learn the rest of the crap we get fed... but love is one of the first things most people learn... without it being taught to us... it comes from within... and has always been and always will be with every person ever born...

Really, so you arent what you think? You must be some kind of robot then.

Well that doesn't even make sense.... I said what you've been taught has no basis in reality...

Do you honestly think Christians are the nicest most loving people in the world.... Its pretty hilarious if you do think that...

Ever heard that quote from Ghandi?

'I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians... they are not like your Christ

I feel the exact same way...

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

But are good works without faith still good works? Of course they are. An atheist who saves a child from danger still did a good thing even if he has no faith in Jesus or his sacrifice. How are good works dead without faith exactly? Showing love by doing good works is not "dead".

a reply to: Akragon

I just find it ironic that a worker of good according to the Law of Love would assume someone else is brainwashed just because you refuse to look through their eyes for just a moment. Like I said, that is elitism.

What if one day you were to discover that all you knew was wrong? How would you feel being called brainwashed?

And FYI, I was not raised Christian. I willingly washed my brain in the Blood of the Lamb.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: windword

That's absolutely untrue. We know quite a bit of the Essene, not only through Josephus, who was initiated with them . . .

I would suggest that Josephus was intentionally obfuscating to protect the group that he formerly belonged to by giving disinformation.

So was there a conspiracy to obfuscate and confuse the truth about the Essene between Josephus, Paul, Pliny, Philo and possibly Plutarch too?

What I do think happened is that the Roman Catholics tried to divert attention from the fact that the Essene are the original link between Judaism and Christianity, and that "Jesus" represents their "Teacher of Righteousness".

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Well the majority of Christians are raised Christian, never given a chance to explore other avenues. Christianity thrives off of child indoctrination, it wouldn't be so popular if that weren't the case.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

But those deeds dont erase your sins. Only Jesus can do that. No accumilation of good deeds can counter balance the wickedness in the hearts of ALL humans.

Im not against good works, im just advising that you take care of the internal problems that exist in all humans first. If you want to appear clean, be clean inside and out.

How does that make faith reproachable?

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

So is nothing known of them or is what is known disinformation?

Both.
Josephus was some sort of Zealot, then got captured by Titus.
He wrote these books years later from Rome.
There may have been Zealots still operating at the date of publication.
He may have misrepresented the Essenes to create cover for the Zealots.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I was raised republican. Now Im a-political. Are you implying that raised Christians are incapable of critical thinking? That is biggotry.

If someone doesnt question the traditions they are raised with, its because they choose to remain closed minded.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Matthew 6
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

John 15
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commands and remain in his love.

John 14
21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.

1 John 2
3 We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

1 John 5
3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome

His commandments were to love others as you love yourself. To love others as yourself is to do good works, to do good works is to love God.

Your book contradicts what you say. If you love others you will remain in his love and to love others you must live as Jesus did. Christians say it is impossible to live as Jesus did, yet the bible says it is a requirement. Jesus desired mercy (love) not sacrifice.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If someone cannot see the truth because of what they were raised to think, no matter what the case or religion is, they are not capable of critical thinking in that particular area of thought. That is not bigotry, it's the truth.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

We are told to love God with all our heart and soul. That is where the good works come from. We work because of our love. We do not work to love God.

You are contradicting my book. Thats why this thread was started.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If someone cannot see the truth because of what they were raised to think, no matter what the case or religion is, they are not capable of critical thinking in that particular area of thought. That is not bigotry, it's the truth.

No, environment does not override freewill. You can only be closed minded by choice. If people never deviated from indoctrinated tradition, there wouldnt be so many traditions in existence.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Your book says that love for God comes from good works not the other way around.

1 John 2
5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him

If you obey his words, you know that your love for him is complete. Good works show love for God, love for God is loving others as yourself. If you love others then you will remain in his love, there is no mention of believing in a sacrifice.

If you love others and forgive others God will love you and forgive you, regardless of faith. It says so right in the gospels.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

1 John 2 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him

Love for God is made COMPLETE in obediance. First you have to love God with faith, then obedience completes it.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If someone decides to believe in something because of fear of punishment, they decide to be close-minded despite all of the evidence contrary to their belief. That includes any religion, not just Christianity.

Christians fear punishment, that's the only logical reason for why they believe something despite the evidence against it. They freely choose to be close-minded.

Do you fear being punished if you disagree with the bible? Do you fear being left behind if Jesus comes back?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I just find it ironic that a worker of good according to the Law of Love would assume someone else is brainwashed just because you refuse to look through their eyes for just a moment. Like I said, that is elitism.

I've looked though the eyes of Christians attempting to find Jesus in those old books... Why you people completely dedicate yourselves to the beliefs that those books are all Gods word, even though they contradict the words of the man you also call God in the flesh is beyond me

I don't know you from any other man, so don't take what I say as a slight against who you are in real life... this is a discussion forum, and as such you'll find peoples opinions of your beliefs if you choose to release them to this world. Some you will not like... some will anger you... some you will agree with, and some you will think are just bat #e crazy... but when it comes down to it, nothing said here can change who you are in real life. THAT is completely up to you...

That being said... IN real life I deal with someone I love with all my heart and soul... this person is "Protestant reformed" and she loves me as I do her... but her family HATES me, and there are 18 of them for Gods sake.

I say brainwashed because I deal with it from an entire family, all of them completely convicted of their beliefs regardless of what they are shown... NOTHING will change their minds or open their eyes to reality...

They believe the world is 6000 years old... humans walked with dinosaurs... and every single word in the bible is directly from God and must be followed even though in reality they do not follow the words in the gospels. They tell her I am an "unbeliever" which is not even close to the truth... that I can't be with her regardless of her own wishes... They routinely hurt her because of this, and then tell her its for her own good... Her father even went so far as to threaten to kick her out if she continues to see me... which he didn't follow through with.

They use the bible as a tool to keep her under their control... they use it as a weapon against me who wants notihing more then to love her and spend my life with her... I would and will give her everything shes ever wanted, and I have the means to do so... but that is not enough because I don't share her families beliefs.

I had no idea just how extreme Christian indoctrination could be until I experienced it first hand... For the first time In my life I feel utter contempt and hatred for these people but I fight it because I know its not right... and all I can do is remind myself of what Jesus taught... without him I would be lost in this frickin mess.... so I forgive, and hope, and pray that God helps me... and he has every step of the way... as he always has

Its not elitism... what I say comes from first hand experience...

What IS elitism is when people try to claim their way is the only way, and without that way they're lost...

Jesus has that right... NO ONE ELSE DOES... Not Paul... Not the OT writers... NO ONE...

So you people keep saying I'll pray for you... Well please do... this is MY hour of need

And I need all the help I can get...

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Do you believe you can live as Jesus did? Sinless and perfect?

1 John 2
6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.

Whoever claims to live in him MUST live as Jesus did. Do you live a sinless life as Jesus did? If not you do not love God.

Matthew 5
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Are you perfect as God is perfect? If not, you do not love God.