Jesus Christ: The Loving God of the Old AND New Testament

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Akragon

Men, women, and children... including unborn babies in some cases...

I think this was a effort to make a history that covers up the fact that the Judean people were actually genetically Canaanites.
Even Abraham, he was basically a Babylonian.
He travels around Canaan but stays aloof from the population and has his descendants marry relatives, cousins (he himself marries his sister, think, Targarians from Game of Thrones).
When this was being written out, the Jews were coming from Babylon and the first order of business was to tell everyone in Judea that they were not "real" Jews, and only they (the Babylonian Jews) were authentic.
So they were basically relegating the indigenous population to the level of Canaanites.
They promote the general concept by inventing a history that makes Canaanites so many animals ripe for the slaughter.

interesting...

these are the same people who allegedly sacrificed children to their god...

Can we believe the writing of people who sought to destroy and conquer though?

a reply to: Akragon

these are the same people who allegedly sacrificed children to their god...

What the scholars who are investigating this think is that it was sort of pandemic in that culture.
What I am saying (influenced by these scholarly findings) was that it is made out to be in their official history that it was confined to a particular group who somehow were not Israelites but someone else.
There isn't any evidence that there was in fact such a distinction, but that it was all one culture.
That's my point, is that you have some people, wanting to elevate their own status as "the righteous" above who they would call "the others" or in Jesus' time "foreigners" even though they lived in the same place and were at least distant relatives.

a reply to: Akragon & godlover

A long long time ago, in a desert far far away, an epic fiction was building and expounding in the sands of time. Heros and villains portrayed in amazing stories you should have never believed.

You guys should really become writers. Your imaginations are unbounded. You have the friggin books available to read and you still can't come to a consensus of whatever message it's trying to convey.

Just wondering if any of you sit around and argue the facts about any other fictional universes. You know like DC or Marvel? Or like who shot first? Solo or Greedo? ( spoiler, it was Solo)

All of your arguments are crude imaginings of a collection of stories that have no basis in reality. Yet, you impose your emotional immaturity on every other line and present your own opinion as the will of some god
All the while you are missing the point of the texts which is to help you be kind to your fellow humans.
Utter Failure!!!


Thread summary:

Godlover: "i know what god said. "

Akragon: "No, I know what god said"

Godlover "uh uh, I know what god meant when he said that."

Akragon: "uh uh, he didn't mean that. "

Ad infinitum

Fin

originally posted by: godlover25
are you aware of how Christendom is divided?

Better than you do. If you had bothered to read the information I just provided, you'd see that the vast majority of Christians DO NOT believe in a literal interpretation of the Old Testament; do not believe in Genesis because it's been proven wrong; do not believe in Noahs Ark because it's been proven wrong; and the vast majority know that the Old Testament people did some horrid things all supposedly in Gods' name.

So yes, I'm very well aware how Christianity divides up.
But apparently you are not.
Read the information provided instead of just preaching at people.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I am not a Young Earth Creationist, I believe in Evolution, and I believe the Universe to be ~13.8 Gya and the Earth to be ~4.5 Gya.

I believe the Great Flood was a historical event and it covered the entire world known to the people of Noah's time - a small region of ancient Palestine or perhaps a region of northern Africa, and there is much evidence to prove these areas were prone to flooding, I'm not going to do your footwork for you but there's a blog by a woman named Alice Linsely who's dedicated her life to disseminating Genesis, called JustGenesis, read up on it,

I believe Genesis, especially the first 11 chapters, are a sacred history meant to convey a theological and spiritual message of timeless Truth, it is not a history book and to regard it as we would a modern history or biology text is futile.

How does one who subscribes to Marcionism reconcile the fact that Jesus said if you don't believe in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, then you don't believe in His words?

How does one reconcile the fact that Jesus was an observant Jew and the only Scriptures he studied to get to know the Word of the Father was the Old Testament that we have today?

How does one reconcile the fact that without the Old Testament there would be no New, or that without Judaism there would be no Christianity?


From Alice's blog -
Noah was a Nilo-Saharan ruler at a time when the Sahara was wet. According to Dr Kevin White, “Over the last 10,000 years, there have been two distinct humid phases, separated by an interval of highly variable but generally drying conditions between roughly 8,000 and 7,000 years ago. Another drying trend took place after about 5,000 years ago, leading to today’s parched environment.”

Noah lived during the period of the Old Kingdom of Egypt, a time of great cultural and technological achievement. This places Noah and his sons in relatively recent history, not at the dawn of human existence.

The flood of Noah occurred in the region of Lake Chad in the Gurian Wet Period, also called the “Aqualithic.” The latter term was coined by British archaeologist John Sutton (Journal of Africa History 1974; Antiquity 1977). This 500 years of wetness occurred during the late Holocene.

Lake Chad is a great depression or basis which in the Nilo-Saharan is Tchad. The etymology of the word is very interesting. It is linguistically related to the Luo word chaddhoreh, meaning a wound or bruise. In Isaiah 1:6 the King James Version translates the Hebrew chabbarah as "bruises", but it also means wound or depression where something has been cut out. The Luo verb chaddho means to cut out, to pluck out, or to bruise the skin. A wound of this type is called chaddhoreh in Luo. So the name Chad describes the cut out basin which filled with water and became Mega Chad in the Holocene.

The Proto-Saharans were river peoples who shared many common beliefs, customs and symbols. Their civilization was at its peak between 10,000 and 4000 BC when the Sahara was wet. The major water systems connected the Nile and Central Africa. The historian Roland Oliver describes the Green Sahara as follows:

jandyongenesis.blogspot.com... and jandyongenesis.blogspot.com...


And Ms. Linsley's background -
Introduction
I have been pioneering the field of Biblical Anthropology for over 30 years. I teach Philosophy and Ethics, and I am a member of the American Scientific Affiliation and Christian Women in Science.

University of Bridgeport, CT and The Lutheran Theological Seminary Philadelphia

originally posted by: godlover25
How does one who subscribes to Marcionism reconcile the fact that Jesus said if you don't believe in Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, then you don't believe in His words?

That's wrong. At no time did Jesus tell people they'd go to hell for cutting their beards; for eating bacon; for planting gardens with mixed seeds .... at no point did he say that people have to literally believe in Adam and Eve or they go to hell ... at no point did he say that people who didn't believe in Noahs ark are going to hell. etc etc. Jesus fulfilled the law .... Jesus perfected the law.

If Christ ever did say those things, then he wouldn't be God Incarnate. Since those Old Testament folklore things absolutely did not happen, that would mean that Jesus would be telling people they would have to believe in nonsense in order to get into heaven. So that's popppycock .... Jesus didn't say that.

And since you do not believe in the exact literal translation of Genesis or Exodus .. guess what .. according to you that makes you one of your 'marcionism' people. Congratulations. You've joined the vast majority of Christianity.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I'm beginning to think your not really reading what I post, but let me expound on things for you:

Matthew 19:4 - Jesus referencing God creating Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 2

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’

Mark 10:6 - Jesus referencing God creating Mankind in Genesis chapter 1

6 But from the beginning of the creation, God ‘made them male and female.’

Luke 11:51 - Jesus referencing the fact He believes in all of Gods prophets, from Abel in Genesis, the first book of the Hebrew Bible, all the way to Zechariah, recorded in what was then the last book of the Old Testament, 2 Chronicles, therefore saying He believes in all the Prophets of the entire Old Testament

51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.

Matthew 24:37-38 - Jesus saying He believes in Noah and the Ark from Genesis

But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark

Luke 17:28-30 - Jesus referencing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha as recorded in Genesis
Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

John 5:46-47 - Jesus explaining that if you do not believe in the writings of Moses (The Torah or Pentateuch, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) you cannot believe His Words

For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”


I can give many, MANY more examples, this is the tip of the iceberg,

So what's it gonna be Akragon? You have three choices now the way I see it -
A) renounce your belief in Jesus, seeing as how He believed in the Old Testament, claimed his Father is the OT God and that He and the OT God are One,
B) renounce your heretical belief in the ancient heresy of Marcionism
C) renounce theism and declare yourself an atheist

God bless you



Excuse me, I meant what's it gonna be Flyersfan, but I suppose this applies to anybody holding to the heresy of Marcionism (the belief in Jesus as God and the New Testament Scriptures while disregarding the OT or claiming God was "evil" in the OT)

originally posted by: godlover25
I'm beginning to think your not really reading what I post,

You didn't read anything I posted. You didn't read the links.

Jesus referencing God creating Adam and Eve in Genesis chapter 2

Jesus did NOT say people would go to hell if they didn't believe in Adam and Eve. And he did not say there was Adam and Eve, Jesus just said God made male and female. That's true. God can use evolution and there are male and female.

Luke 11:51 - Jesus referencing the fact He believes in all of Gods prophets,

He referenced that they were there. He didn't say that people had to believe they were doing Gods will or go to hell.

Matthew 24:37-38 - Jesus saying He believes in Noah and the Ark from Genesis But as the days of Noah were,

He referenced a time period for the people .... and he spoke of a folklore .. he didn't say that there was a flood that wiped out the world. If He had said that, He'd be a liar. We know there was no world wide flood. And he never said that people have to believe in Noah or they go to hell.

Luke 17:28-30 - Jesus referencing the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrha as recorded in Genesis

Sodom and Gomorrha may have existed. There is evidence of an ash layer in that area that would date back to that time period.

John 5:46-47 - Jesus explaining that if you do not believe in the writings of Moses (The Torah or Pentateuch, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) you cannot believe His Words ... For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

That's for the Jews of his time. That was Jesus confirming His own standing with something the Jews could understand. But the fact remains .... what Moses did in the name of God was BAD. Mass murder and sex slaves = bad. There is no way to spin it to be good.


Look ... if you want to believe that a 'good God' would wipe people out ... innocent towns and villages, children and unborn children, livestock .... that a 'good God' would call for sex slaves and rape ... knock yourself out.

All that was the exact opposite of what Jesus preached.

I'll take Jesus sermon on the mount ... and Jesus saying 'love God and neighbor' ... over hanging onto a destructive and blood drenched Old Testament God. The two are not compatible.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Dude....

WHO DO YOU THINK JESUS IS?

WHY do you call Him destructive and blood drenched and then say you like His sermon on the Mount?

You're making NO sense!

Who are you anyways to decide who deserves to live or not? You are NOT God and you very obviously DO NOT know Him.

If God didn't wipe out who He did, the world today would probably be an uncivilized mess of savagery and we'd all be nonexistent, and those who did exist would be living in third world circumstances and Jesus would never have Incarnated.....

I don't understand your theology AT ALL

a reply to: FlyersFan

FlyersFan, I want you to READ this, I want you to pray about it and I want you to think and meditate on it:

Deuteronomy 32:39 ‘Now see that I, even I, am He,
And there is no God besides Me;
I kill and I make alive;
I wound and I heal;
Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.
40 For I raise My hand to heaven,
And say, “As I live forever,
41 If I whet My glittering sword,
And My hand takes hold on judgment,
I will render vengeance to My enemies,
And repay those who hate Me.
42 I will make My arrows drunk with blood,
And My sword shall devour flesh,
With the blood of the slain and the captives,
From the heads of the leaders of the enemy.”’

Job 5:17 “Behold, happy is the man whom God corrects;
Therefore do not despise the chastening of the Almighty.
18 For He bruises, but He binds up;
He wounds, but His hands make whole.

John 10: 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.
30 I and My Father are one.”

1 Chronicles 29:11-12
Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power and the glory and the victory and the majesty, for all that is in the heavens and in the earth is yours. Yours is the kingdom, O Lord, and you are exalted as head above all. Both riches and honor come from you, and you rule over all. In your hand are power and might, and in your hand it is to make great and to give strength to all.

Psalm 115:3

Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.

Matthew 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.


Jesus controls history,

Jesus chooses who lives and who dies,

Jesus chooses what happens while you live, what way you will die, and where you go post-death,

Jesus creates,

Jesus destroys,

Jesus is GOD,

God is SOVEREIGN,

do you understand? Do you see?

originally posted by: godlover25
Dude....

I'm a girl.

WHO DO YOU THINK JESUS IS?

Jesus is god incarnate.

WHY do you call Him destructive and blood drenched and then say you like His sermon on the Mount?

GOD didn't call for anyone to be destructive or blood drenched. Obviously that wasn't God in the Old Testament, even though people claimed it was. Use your head. The supposed 'god' of the Old Testament is the exact opposite of Jesus. So obviously it wasn't God directing the mass killings and the rapes and the sex slaves. That was humans claiming to speak for God.

You're making NO sense!

Right back atchya.

Who are you anyways to decide who deserves to live or not?

OMG .. spoken like an extremist sharia muslim who would hack his way through the world with a bloody sword saying it's 'Allahs Will'. No difference.

You are NOT God and you very obviously DO NOT know Him.

Obviously I know God better than you do. I know Jesus. And He isn't the one who would butcher entire cities with children and unborn children in them. He wouldn't slaughter all the animals inside and order that 'nothing be left breathing' (reference Joshua). He is love and mercy incarnate .... whereas the alleged 'god' of the Old Testament is the exact opposite.

If God didn't wipe out who He did, the world today would probably be an uncivilized mess of savagery

OPEN YOUR EYES.
1 - What the people did in Gods name was an uncivilized mess of savagery.
2 - The world today IS an uncivilized mess of savagery. Turn on the TV.

I don't understand your theology AT ALL

Because you believe the Old Testament mass murderers when they say they did their mass murders and rapes because God commanded it, and because you don't know Jesus who wouldn't have done such a thing.

originally posted by: godlover25
FlyersFan, I want you to READ this, I want you to pray about it and I want you to think and meditate on it:

I don't care what you want.
Here ... try this on for size .
See if you can spot the difference.

FAKE OLD TESTAMENT GOD - Leviticus 24:19: "If a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: 20. fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him. WEB

JESUS GOD INCARNATE NEW TESTAMENT - Matt 5:38: "You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' 39. But I tell you, don't resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also.

FAKE OLD TESTAMENT GOD - Kill everyone, kill children, wipe out every breathing thing.

JESUS GOD INCARNATE NEW TESTAMENT - Let the little children come to me.

Get it yet? What those prophets did in the Old Testament couldn't have come from God. Jesus - God Incarnate - is the exact opposite of what those prophets claimed God said.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Jesus is the Logos, the Eternal Word of God, the Eternally Begotten Son of God, the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, the Triple Unity, the One God in Three Persons, Three Persons yet One God, undivided and One in essence:

See what St. John writes about the Lord Jesus upon His Return:

Revelation 19:11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.”

Pay attention here:

Look at what The LORD of Hosts, the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, of Isaac and Jacob says through the Holy Spirit through the Prophet Isaiah, recorded in the 44th chapter of His Prophecy: 6 “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
‘I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

Do you not see what Jesus just said in the verse from Rev? He is the First and the Last. And, lo! The LORD calls Himself, whaddya know? The First and the Last!

Revelation 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, “Surely I am coming quickly.”

Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Wakeup!

Jesus Christ is the Son of God!

The Son of God is One with the Father and the Holy Spirit!

The Godhead is Omnipotent and Sovereign,

and the LORD will return,

and the Lord WILL judge us!

PLEASE -

accept Jesus, or deny Him!

It's much better off to flat out deny Him than to claim to believe in Him and blaspheme Him and the Father.

John 9:41 Jesus said to them, “If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, ‘We see.’ Therefore your sin remains.

Revelation 3:These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

a reply to: FlyersFan

This is no longer fruitful,

I have done all I can to try and illumine you, but apparently you are not yet ready to receive it, maybe as you mature spiritually you will learn to accept God for who He is and stop trying to judge The Judge,

What I will do now is stop replying to you on this subject, and pray for you and hope you really do follow Jesus as best as you can in the way you understand Him, and pray the Lord have mercy on us all,

I need Jesus to forgive me and be merciful to me as much as you do, so I ask that you return the favor in praying for me.

God bless

a reply to: jmdewey60

Well, John the Baptist also denied that he was Elijah, although, for Jesus to have been the prophesied Messiah, Elijah had to have come to "prepare the way", and Jesus said that John was/is Elijah.

So John wasn't always correct in what he said....

originally posted by: godlover25
Pay attention here

How about YOU pay attention and address the issues I presented instead of just preaching. Obviously you aren't listening. I said Jesus is God Incarnate. Stop preaching. Address the issues I raised. I showed that the Old Testament 'god' is largely faked.

It's much better off to flat out deny Him than to claim to believe in Him and blaspheme Him and the Father.

You still make me laugh. 'Blaspheme' ... 'Heresy' ... oh dude ... gotta believe in God just like you or people go to hell, eh? Yeah ... well ... good luck with that.

Address the points in my posts ... and quit preaching.


The title of this thread says that the Old Testament God is 'loving'. I have shown that much of what is claimed to be God in the Old Testament is clearly just people going on mass murder/rape sprees and then claiming God sent them to do it.

Is mass murder and rape and destruction really 'loving'?? Lets' look at what the New Testament says love is..

1 Cor 13 - Love is PATIENT; love is KIND. Love is not jealous, it does not put on airs, it is not snobbish. Love is never rude, it is not self-seeking, IT IS NOT PRONE TO ANGER; NEITHER DOES IT BROOD OVER INJURIES. Love does not rejoice in what is wrong but rejoices with the truth. There is no limit to love's FORBEARANCE, to it's trust, it's hope, it's power to endure.

Yeah ... show me how mass murder and rape are 'loving'. Go ahead and give it a try. NOT HAPPENING!

originally posted by: godlover25
I have done all I can to try and illumine you, ..

Yeah ... you just preached and preached .. not listening .. not addressing the points I made. Stop the preaching. Address the issues.

a reply to: LittleByLittle

I say equally important, but God know that better than I.

I'm sad to see all of you arguing and boasting yourself up like balloons and chiming like bells.
Wasting your awareness by sinking into thoughtless emotions and not even trying to come to the conclusion that: If you all know the truth, why are you all throwing pearls before pigs because those here that are arguing are just doing that, arguing to a non satisfactory state of mind.

It's as if you are all trying to right yourselves through scriptures. It just doesn't work if one keeps boasting oneself up.

Where is the Care, love and compassion in all of your writings?

originally posted by: Sump3
a reply to: LittleByLittle

I say equally important, but God know that better than I.

Faith in Religion can be dogmatic and lead to fundamentalism. Faith in god guiding you and actively seeking guiding directly from the source I can agree with.