Jesus Christ: The Loving God of the Old AND New Testament

originally posted by: godlover25
a reply to: Akragon

My apology then, admonitions given to unbeliever differ from those which are supposed to be given to heretics,

Don't take what I'm saying as a judgement from me about your person, I'm simply debating your doctrine and views with you,

Whether you believe it or not, I'd give you the last dollar in my wallet, I'd take a bullet for you, I'd give you the shirt off my back or anything you asked for, and I do love you.

That is a wonderful thing to state...

Though just so you know, I am anything but an unbeliever...

My doctrine comes from the man you call God, and his Father is my God...

and I am more then happy to debate it with you or anyone else... His words are the only "flawless" part of the bible, and im speaking of his teaching not just what is written because there are contradictions and errors within every book in the bible

HE and only HE Is the Truth, the life, and the way... HE is your teacher and no other... but if you choose to listen to others (books and or preachers) then you will always fall short when dealing with me

a reply to: DarknStormy

God's only begoten son, from god's own spirit manifest the word of god as a man, emanuel god among us, he died on the cross the man died but he rose from death on the third day and after fourty days of purification (removing of this earth) he ascended to heaven and in accord with the scripture is seated at the right hand of his father and has both the throne of David and the right hand of his father in heaven whose house on earth he cast the money changers out of.
He is god but he is more rightly called OUR KING as christians and as Christians you know we can not accept any false king whom corrupt's his word to claim divine right of kingship as they are actually blaspheming and heretics against the throne of christ.
True God from True God, True Light from True Light.

"No one come's to the father except by me"
"He whom see's me see's the father"

Need I go on.

Peace and he will lead you if you let him.

a reply to: Akragon

Jesus is our portal to the Law of Love. If you believe that He died to remove your sins, then you are free to practice the Law of Love. If however, you do not believe, then you are not born again. If you arent born again, you can not even come close to the Law of Love. You are still bound by sin and the OT Law reveals your true nature. This is taught in John 3. Eternal Life and Righteousness is through faith in Jesus, not action. There is no practicing the Law of Love without faith in Him, not faith in your own actions.

That is the point of the two sets of Laws. The old Law reveals sin, the new Law is above sin. Why is this so hard to see?
Jesus is literally where the Old Law and New Law meets. He came to baptize us into His nature so that we could have the capacity to execute the Law of Love.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

what a load of crap...

Tell ya what... when they publish the gospel according to Believerpriest... You may have a case...

Until then you have nothing...

There are millions of people who don't believe is Jesus yet still practice the law of love...

Why? Because its truth... it is BUILT IN, written in our hearts...

And your silly elitist doctrine holds no weight with me

a reply to: Akragon

I stand by what I said. I cannot give true measure to what is truly right. Only God. And so, I will never (edit)be good in measure to him. Only he could give that measure as he is the measure stick.

Read again what I said as Christ teaches that the evil that appears in this world is not truly God's will but is like a second farmer who plants weeds among God's wheat.
The acre is the world which is a projection of the positive of God, but when in this world the adversary was created and is thus, God but yet not, for the devil isn't from the beginning. That's why God want's us to be like Christ, because that's the only truth

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If you believe that He died to remove your sins, then you are free to practice the Law of Love. If however, you do not believe, then you are not born again.

What? Jesus said nothing of the sort. Did you make this up yourself or is this something you read or heard somewhere?

a reply to: borntowatch

We are judged upon the knowledge that we validate as truth and how we act upon that. Belief/faith is shown through deeds.

ETA:
So if someone hasn't seen, heard or felt of Care and Love, he is shown understanding upon that.

Try picturing God as the best of the best of the best you can imagine, not some dogmatic system that is based simply upon the vanity of men.

All is vanity under the sun, but what is the vanity we can measure as good?

a reply to: godlover25

I really doubt you can refute all of Dawkins' and Hithens' points about religion. Ultimately, your argument will end in "well, thats just what I believe. I have faith." At which point they would destroy you. At least Dawkins could. Hitchens is enjoying his nonexistence.

Anyways, whatever helps you sleep at night.

a reply to: Sump3

Read again what I said as Christ teaches that the evil that appears in this world is not truly God's will but is like a second farmer who plants weeds among God's wheat.
The acre is the world which is a projection of the positive of God, but when in this world the adversary was created and is thus, God but yet not, for the devil isn't from the beginning. That's why God want's us to be like Christ, because that's the only truth

Which implies that whoever is planting the weeds is just as strong and capable as the person who planted the wheat. Otherwise, the wheat-planting dude wouldn't have let the weeds be planted in his crop, right? Because it's stupid to just let people ruin your good hard work.

Oh, wait...

a reply to: AfterInfinity

You are with the mindset that this world is the truth. It's not. He who is in the beginning, is in the end, and beyond both.

The devil came into being after god created all the dimensions and the fabric of the multi-uni-verse.

ETA:
So, no, not as strong. But only given force that is made to subdue to the creator's will in the end.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

what a load of crap...

Tell ya what... when they publish the gospel according to Believerpriest... You may have a case...

Until then you have nothing...

There are millions of people who don't believe is Jesus yet still practice the law of love...

Why? Because its truth... it is BUILT IN, written in our hearts...

And your silly elitist doctrine holds no weight with me

To me, this sound like youre running out of your cherry-picked talking points. Perhaps it is because you limit your focus on the Gospels alone and reject the actual founding principles of the Gospels in the OT.

The Law of Love you describe is different than what Jesus taught. True Love is more than just that warm fuzzy feeling you get when something nice happens. For example, in human relationships there is mutual flattery that brings and emotional high, and there is true vituous Love. When it comes to our relationship with God, our sins reduce our good works to emotionally charged flatter. Take sin out of the picture, and true Love is able to bind souls. What Jesus taught was that we have to clean the inside first (sin) before shining the outside (righteousness). You can not practice the Law of Love if sin still has a hold of your soul, regardless of your intentions.

How is that elitism? It is in fact the opposite. I did nothing outside of faith, for my redemption. Jesus did all the work, so I literally cannot boast about my works. Elitists go around talking like the Pharisees; teaching that they are some how better than others. Im not doing that.

The only difference between me and a nonbeliever is that I place my faith in Jesus. Any good that I do is not my own,but Jesus' love manifested in me. I did not earn that status, it was offered to be by Jesus as it is offered to the rest of the world too. That doesnt even come close to elitism.

You cannot practice the Law of Love without being born again. Jesus taught that. It doesnt matter how hard you try, if sin is unresolved, your love for God will amount to nothing more than a highschool crush. YOU HAVE TO CLEAN THE INSIDE FIRST. And that cannot be done from a possition of corruption. Only faith in the Lamb of God can wash away sin.

If anyone truely loves Jesus for the "Light (of the world)" that He is, they will honor the dowry payment He made for us on the cross, with faith. He purchased us from our bondage to sin. The choice is yours to go with Him or remain a slave.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The Law of Love you describe is different than what Jesus taught.

Really?

36 Master, which is the greatest commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said to him: Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart, and with thy whole soul, and with thy whole mind.
38 This is the greatest and the first commandment.
39 And the second is like to this: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments dependeth the whole law and the prophets.

I don't recall Jesus qualifying what kind of love is better or more acceptable. I do recall a saying of his that reminds me very much of you and your personal philosophy:

"Yes," said Jesus, "what sorrow also awaits you experts in religious law! For you crush people with unbearable religious demands, and you never lift a finger to ease the burden. Luke 11:46

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

thank you for expounding on Pauls doctrine for me...

What a waste of a few paragraphs of text...

You should read what Windword just said...

Unfortunately you are blinded by the preachers who taught you... good luck with that

John 8
42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”

49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”

52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”

54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”

This all takes place within a span of a few minutes, Jesus calls the Pharisee's father the devil then goes on to tell those same Pharisees that their father is Abraham. Seems to me that Jesus was calling Abraham the devil and a liar and the father of lies.

There's no twisting of context here, this is all within the same chapter and there is no span of time missing between the two statements. If Jesus calls Abraham the devil, what does that mean about the Abrahamic god of the OT?

a reply to: windword

Right, Love God with heart and soul. If you dont acknowledge Jesus' sacrifice on the cross as a rasom payment for us, then you dont love Him with all your heart and soul. Jesus was called the Lamb of God. That implies atoning sacrifice. Jesus and the Father are one. That means that Jesus is a manifestation of God. Believers are only in fellowship with the Father through Jesus, but Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. God can only beget God, just as eternitly x eternity= eternity.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

thank you for expounding on Pauls doctrine for me...

What a waste of a few paragraphs of text...

You should read what Windword just said...

Unfortunately you are blinded by the preachers who taught you... good luck with that

See, now that is Elitism. Its passive-aggressive, but its still elitism.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

What Jesus taught was that we have to clean the inside first (sin) before shining the outside (righteousness).

I'm pretty sure that it was you who just said that.
What Jesus said was,
Luke 11:41
But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
(2011 NIV)
So it starts with righteousness, doing good works.

. . . I did nothing outside of faith, for my redemption. Jesus did all the work . . .

You couldn't anyway because the whole world is redeemed.
It is not an individual thing.

Elitists go around talking like the Pharisees; teaching that they are some how better than others. Im not doing that.

There is an intellectual elitism where you believe that having correct theology saves you.

Any good that I do is not my own,but Jesus' love manifested in me. I did not earn that status, it was offered to be by Jesus as it is offered to the rest of the world too.

What "status" were you offered?

You cannot practice the Law of Love without being born again. Jesus taught that.

He did not tie the two things together.

It doesnt matter how hard you try, if sin is unresolved . . . that cannot be done from a position of corruption. Only faith in the Lamb of God can wash away sin.

"Corruption" is not having "unresolved" sin caused by not believing in a blood-for-sins exchange scheme.
Getting rid of corruption is stopping whatever wrong acts you may have been doing and replacing it with right actions.

. . . honor the dowry payment He made for us on the cross . . .

There would have to be such a thing first, before anyone would be obligated to accept it.
This seems to be an attempt to build a second analogy on top of an earlier analogy.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

thank you for expounding on Pauls doctrine for me...

What a waste of a few paragraphs of text...

You should read what Windword just said...

Unfortunately you are blinded by the preachers who taught you... good luck with that

See, now that is Elitism. Its passive-aggressive, but its still elitism.

LOL

No its just honesty... look up the definition of elitism, clearly you don't know what it implies

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Right, Love God with heart and soul. If you dont acknowledge Jesus' sacrifice on the cross as a rasom payment for us, then you dont love Him with all your heart and soul.

Jesus never said that.

Jesus was called the Lamb of God.

Jesus is called a lot of things. He is, because of religion, "all things to all people".

That implies atoning sacrifice.

"The Good Shepard", which is what Jesus supposedly called himself, implies something else.

Jesus and the Father are one.

Like "Christ", and according to the teachings of Jesus, I and (my) father (god) are also one.

That means that Jesus is a manifestation of God.

No it doesn't. No more than I am a manifestation of God too.

Believers are only in fellowship with the Father through Jesus, but Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. God can only beget God, just as eternitly x eternity= eternity.

Jesus never said that.

a reply to: jmdewey60

I'm pretty sure that it was you who just said that.

Really, are sure you are "pretty sure"? Cuz Im pretty sure Jesus said this:

Matt 23:26 “You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.