It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Jesus Christ: The Loving God of the Old AND New Testament

page: 1
13
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 22 2014 @ 04:29 PM
link   
In response to several posts I've read recently expressing heretical views of God in regards to His love and the Old Testament, I will now give a host of examples from the Old Testament showing that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever, Jesus Christ is the Loving Father of the Old and the New covenant both.

Love Him or Hate Him, PLEASE don't disrespect Jesus in the ultimate way by claiming you love Him or follow Him while blaspheming His Father, it is worse than spitting in His Face

Thank you and God bless



The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. (Ex 34:6-7)

"Is not Ephraim my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him," declares the LORD. (Jer 31:20)

I will make an everlasting covenant with them: I will never stop doing good to them, and I will inspire them to fear me, so that they will never turn away from me. I will rejoice in doing them good and will assuredly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul. (Jer 32:40-41)

The LORD said to me, "Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes." (Hos 3:1)

The LORD upholds all those who fall and lifts up all who are bowed down.
The eyes of all look to you, and you give them their food at the proper time.
You open your hand and satisfy the desires of every living thing.
The LORD is righteous in all his ways and loving toward all he has made.
(Ps 145:14-17)

He upholds the cause of the oppressed
and gives food to the hungry.
The LORD sets prisoners free,
the LORD gives sight to the blind,
the LORD lifts up those who are bowed down,
the LORD loves the righteous.
The LORD watches over the alien
and sustains the fatherless and the widow,
but he frustrates the ways of the wicked.
(Ps 146:7-9)

But you, O God, do see trouble and grief;
you consider it to take it in hand.
The victim commits himself to you;
you are the helper of the fatherless...
You hear, O LORD , the desire of the afflicted;
you encourage them, and you listen to their cry,
defending the fatherless and the oppressed,
in order that man, who is of the earth, may terrify no more.
(Ps 10:14, 17-18)



As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. (Ezek 33:11)

Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, O house of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD . Repent and live! (Ezek 18:31-32)

How can I give you up, Ephraim? How can I hand you over, Israel? How can I treat you like Admah? How can I make you like Zeboiim? My heart is changed within me; all my compassion is aroused. I will not carry out my fierce anger, nor will I turn and devastate Ephraim. For I am God, and not man - the Holy One among you. I will not come in wrath. (Hos 11:8-9)

For men are not cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to the children of men. (Lam 3:31-33)

God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. (2 Sam 14:14)

If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. (Jer 18:7-8)

Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem, look around and consider, search through her squares. If you can find but one person who deals honestly and seeks the truth, I will forgive this city. (Jer 5:1)

"Even now," declares the LORD,
"return to me with all your heart,
with fasting and weeping and mourning."

Rend your heart
and not your garments.
Return to the LORD your God,
for he is gracious and compassionate,
slow to anger and abounding in love,
and he relents from sending calamity.
Who knows? He may turn and have pity
and leave behind a blessing -
grain offerings and drink offerings
for the LORD your God.
(Joel 2:12-14)


If need be, I can post many more,

and no, I will not refute the commonly used OT passages supporting how "evil" God is, because many apologists much more eloquent than I have already undertaken that work, and I will not do your footwork for you, if you want to find, then you seek, I've already gone above and beyond the call of duty with this post,

I will point you to a good URL to start though:

debunkedevil.blogspot.com...

God bless you all,

Through our Father, Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit,

amen




posted on May, 22 2014 @ 04:50 PM
link   
a reply to: godlover25
I have a question that is somewhat off topic.

Most Christians have much religious conviction. They have experienced God or Jesus Christ in some personal way, that tells them beyond a shadow of a doubt he is real. My question is, how is personal conviction in the lord any different than the next guys personal convictions for his faith (whatever it may be)?
edit on 22-5-2014 by WakeUpBeer because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:01 PM
link   
He is a double edged sword as his opposite appears in this world so we can learn from nought to all. But what he want's us to do is sit by his right hand side in Christ. His true form, being Good.

So yes, I agree with your thread point brother.

Stay strong! Bless you



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:01 PM
link   
a reply to: godlover25

cherry picking verses that claim the OT god is loving and just does not make it true...

the texts show otherwise...

This so called god says he loves, yet again...the texts show otherwise...

He/she/it is a viper in the reeds... vile and mercyless, wrathful and jealous...

And NOT the Father of Jesus in any way shape or form

but believe whatever floats your boat




posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: godlover25
In response to several posts I've read recently expressing heretical views of God in regards to His love and the Old Testament ...

"heretical' ... yep, that always cracks me up.

PLEASE don't disrespect Jesus in the ultimate way by claiming you love Him or follow Him while blaspheming His Father,

Quoting Old Testament scripture isn't 'blaspheming' .. it's just quoting Old Testament scripture. And since God The Father wasn't involved in much of the Old Testament, it really doesn't have much to do with Him anyways.

The truth isn't heretical. The truth is Noahs Ark didn't happen. The truth is Genesis didn't happen. That's truth, not 'heresy' or 'blasphemy'. And stating that truth in no way makes any kind of declaration if someone believes in a God or not.



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:11 PM
link   
a reply to: Akragon

Read my response. You must understand that when Christ came in the man Jesus he clarified the old testament to us all. Saying that his father is the god of all.

This world and the life in this body is not what we ought to love, rather, make yourself a treasure in heaven. Who are we to doubt his justice? Can you measure him?

So, take heed in what Christ says about how the light shadow and the dark shadow of God appear in the world. For everything is but a reflection of his light. And so he says, I'm he who makes people blind etc.

But that side you should not want to cling to. Rather his light shadow.

Ain't that why Christ spoke through Paul and said: Try everything but hold on to that which is good?

(Everything paraphrased for same conclusion)



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:17 PM
link   
a reply to: WakeUpBeer

For me it's the sheer evidence we have for the historicity of Jesus and the fact that it's impossible to deny His existence, which means either the Apostles and all eye witnesses of His were liars promoting falsehood, or were really telling the Truth.... there's many great books and websites that delve into this in much more depth, but the way I look at it is this:

God exists. He must. It's only logical to assume a finite universe had to be created by an Infinite Being.

Most of humanity since the dawn of man has had belief in Deity in one way or another, and today most of the world subscribes to one of 6 faiths from two traditions:

Abrahamic religion;
1) Christianity
2) Judaism
3) Islam

Eastern-New Age religion (which I group together because New Age tends to amalgamate aspects of Eastern Religion with traditional Western / Judeo-Christian belief together);
4) Hinduism
5) Buddhism
6) All others, new-age, Taoist, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Shinto, Sikh

Only a very small fraction of man are completely nonreligious / atheist, so I have a hard time believing or trying to tell my self that every single person who has ever experienced the Divine or Supernatural since the beginning of time has been sadly mistaken, lying, or delusional.

Also, I think about this: if there is no God, if there is no Heaven, then there is no justice. There is no point to life, there is no meaning, there is no true Righteousness or Good, all there is is chaos and evil and death.

In my mind, Satan is the perpetrator of chaos, evil and death, so to imagine a world where Satan is god is unthinkable...

I could go on more but these are just some of the very personal reasons I have, of course aside from my own personal experiences of miraculous events, synchronicity and "signs" of God being very active in my life, you asked for my personal reason and this is what I think personally.

Now many Church Fathers have expounded on these things much more than I, St. John Chrysostom and St. Basil the Great, St. Augustine and many others, as well as many modern brilliant theologians, C.S. Lewis in Mere Christianity, Dr. Hugh Ross and his Reasons to believe ministry, the BioLogos ministry of Christians who are also scientists, the Police Detectives and researchers of PleaseConvinceMe, Apologists / speakers like Ravi Zacharias and William Lane Craig.

Also, reading books by the "new atheists" (although there is nothing new about atheism or the weak arguments used by them at all) like Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris has helped strengthen my faith, because I can easily debunk and refute every single one of their quips about religion, and if they are the cream of the crop representing atheist intellect, then theism has absolutely nothing to worry about.

God bless you and thank you for your time



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: godlover25
For men are not cast off by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to the children of men. (Lam 3:31-33)

God does not take away life; instead, he devises ways so that a banished person may not remain estranged from him. (2 Sam 14:14)


Okay ... that sounds like how a real loving God would speak.
Obviously it doesn't match up with the rest of these ...

Exodus 32:26-29 Moses stood at the entrance to the camp and shouted, "All of you who are on the LORD's side, come over here and join me." And all the Levites came. He told them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: Strap on your swords! Go back and forth from one end of the camp to the other, killing even your brothers, friends, and neighbors." The Levites obeyed Moses, and about three thousand people died that day. Then Moses told the Levites, "Today you have been ordained for the service of the LORD, for you obeyed him even though it meant killing your own sons and brothers. Because of this, he will now give you a great blessing."

Isaiah 14:21 Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants.

Isaiah 13:15-18 - Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.

Ezekiel 9:5-7 Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told."

Jeremiah 50:21-22 Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction".

Jeremiah 51:20-26 "You are my battle-ax and sword," says the LORD. "With you I will shatter nations and destroy many kingdoms. With you I will shatter armies, destroying the horse and rider, the chariot and charioteer. With you I will shatter men and women, old people and children, young men and maidens. With you I will shatter shepherds and flocks, farmers and oxen, captains and rulers.

1 Samuel 15:2-3 - This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: 'I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.'

Judges 18:27-29 Then, with Micah's idols and his priest, the men of Dan came to the town of Laish, whose people were peaceful and secure. They attacked and killed all the people and burned the town to the ground. There was no one to rescue the residents of the town, for they lived a great distance from Sidon and had no allies nearby. This happened in the valley near Beth-rehob.Then the people of the tribe of Dan rebuilt the town and lived there. They renamed the town Dan after their ancestor, Israel's son, but it had originally been called Laish.

Does any of this sound like 'not willingly bring affliction or grief' ... 'does not take away life' .... does any of this sound like he's trying to bring a banished person closer to him? Answer ... no. So obviously the God that you quoted up top isn't the same god that I'm quoting. Which means a whole lot of the Old Testament is QUESTIONABLE at best ....



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: WakeUpBeer
a reply to: godlover25
I have a question that is somewhat off topic.

Most Christians have much religious conviction. They have experienced God or Jesus Christ in some personal way, that tells them beyond a shadow of a doubt he is real. My question is, how is personal conviction in the lord any different than the next guys personal convictions for his faith (whatever it may be)?


Maybe you could elaborate on your question a little more

I havnt had a personal experience as such, still a Christian

Maybe you should ask that in your own thread



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:20 PM
link   
a reply to: godlover25


and the fact that it's impossible to deny His existence


I do that every day, and I'm still alive and smiling. So...no, not impossible.



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:22 PM
link   
a reply to: FlyersFan

all the Scriptures you are quoting have been fully expounded upon and explained by the evil bible debunked blog I linked earlier.

I will not do your footwork for you, if you want to falsely condemn God that is on your soul, not mine.

This stuff is too important to not research, so I'd suggest you research these things...

Remember Jesus words: Seek and ye shall find.



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: godlover25

cherry picking verses that claim the OT god is loving and just does not make it true...

the texts show otherwise...

This so called god says he loves, yet again...the texts show otherwise...

He/she/it is a viper in the reeds... vile and mercyless, wrathful and jealous...

And NOT the Father of Jesus in any way shape or form

but believe whatever floats your boat



Do you believe in the Garden of Eden, OT Genesis, perfect creation made by God for humanity. Perfect God-human relationship before the fall

Do you believe God will judge humanity according to a law, or there will be no judgement


God is the God of the law, the law must be obeyed, those outside the law will pay the penalty of the law as they did in the days of the Old Testament.



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: Sump3
a reply to: Akragon

Read my response. You must understand that when Christ came in the man Jesus he clarified the old testament to us all. Saying that his father is the god of all.

This world and the life in this body is not what we ought to love, rather, make yourself a treasure in heaven. Who are we to doubt his justice? Can you measure him?

So, take heed in what Christ says about how the light shadow and the dark shadow of God appear in the world. For everything is but a reflection of his light. And so he says, I'm he who makes people blind etc.

But that side you should not want to cling to. Rather his light shadow.

Ain't that why Christ spoke through Paul and said: Try everything but hold on to that which is good?

(Everything paraphrased for same conclusion)


Again... believe whatever makes you happy

Paul did say "test all spirits"... well heres your chance... look at the atrocities this so called god has done within the pages of the OT...

The OP used various verses that claim this god loves... but it contradicts other passages in the same texts...

He/she/it does not know mercy... He/she/it does not love his creation...

This god says he is a Jealous god, but IF he/she/it is the one true God, what could he possibly be Jealous of?

The Op proved nothing aside from the fact that he will gladly overlook the issues with this God, but only because he was taught the bible is all true, which means he either hasn't read it for himself and merely listens to his preacher... OR he willingly chooses to be blind to the facts that the texts show




posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:31 PM
link   

cherry picking verses that claim the OT god is loving and just does not make it true...
a reply to: Akragon

Look who's talking. You abritrarily reject the entire bible except the gospels.

Mat 5:

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Jesus validated the authenticity of the OT as the Word of God, not merely as some pre-existing religious system.



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:32 PM
link   
a reply to: godlover25

Thanks for your response. I want to elaborate but this is not the thread topic.

a reply to: borntowatch

Perhaps I will in the future. Thanks for the suggestion.


Take care everyone!



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:35 PM
link   
a reply to: FlyersFan

You do also realize every time you sin you deserve death?

A few times when I have drawn really close to God I have actually become absolutely terrified, to the point of crying and being on the verge of having a nervous breakdown, because I was dwelling on my sinfulness and the sins of my loved ones and all I could think about was how many times a day we all earn a death sentence and how rotten sin is and how righteous and good and holy God is.

It should make a person shudder and shake to think of the awesome Power of God and also bring about feelings of extreme gratitude for the fact that though we are deserving of death, God graciously preserves us and blesses us day in and day out.

If you don't believe in God none of this will make sense, if you do believe in Him this will make perfect sense, if you believe in Him with your mouth but not with your heart it will be the same as if you do not believe in Him.

and just in response to the Golden Calf incident, here is one quick explanation I found, there are many more by much better theologians but this is the first one I found off hand:
Even though there are reasonable explanations for why Aaron and the people began to worship the golden calf, those explanations do not excuse the sin. God certainly held the people accountable for their corruption (Exodus 32:7–10) and was ready to destroy them for their sin. Moses’ personal intercession on behalf of his people saved them. Moses indicated that Aaron at least should have known that his actions were sinful (Exodus 32:21) and didn’t let him off the hook. As with any other sin, the punishment is death, and the only proper response is repentance. Moses called for those who were on the Lord’s side to come stand with him (Exodus 32:26). The Levites stood with him and were commanded to go through the camp and kill anyone who persisted in the idolatry. Three thousand men were killed that day. The next day, Moses went up and confessed the people’s sins before God, asking for His forgiveness. God declared that the guilty ones would yet pay with their own deaths and be blotted out of His book. These were the same ones who, on the verge of entering the Promised Land, would deny God’s promises and be sent into the wilderness to die for their sins. Their children would be the ones to receive God’s promised blessings.

Their experiences are a lesson to us today. Even though we might justify our actions through reason or logic, if we are violating God’s clear commands, we are sinning against Him, and He will hold us accountable for those sins. God is not to be worshiped with images, because any image we make will draw more attention to the work of our hands than the God who made all things. Also, there is no way we can ever fully represent the holiness and awesomeness of God through an image. To attempt to do so will always fall short. On top of this, God is a spirit (John 4:24), and we cannot form an image of a spirit. We worship God by believing His Word, obeying it, and declaring His greatness to others.



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:35 PM
link   
a reply to: borntowatch



Do you believe in the Garden of Eden, OT Genesis, perfect creation made by God for humanity. Perfect God-human relationship before the fall


Nope...

Nope..

Perfect creation is true, but not as it happened in Genesis....

And Nope to the Fall as well...


Do you believe God will judge humanity according to a law, or there will be no judgement


Yes, God will judge us when we pass... but not according to the OT laws...


God is the God of the law, the law must be obeyed, those outside the law will pay the penalty of the law as they did in the days of the Old Testament.


Nope... the people of the OT did not know God...




posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:39 PM
link   

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

cherry picking verses that claim the OT god is loving and just does not make it true...
a reply to: Akragon

Look who's talking. You abritrarily reject the entire bible except the gospels.

Mat 5:

“Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Jesus validated the authenticity of the OT as the Word of God, not merely as some pre-existing religious system.


Jesus used the OT only because it was what the religion he was taught used...

IF he validated the OT, he would have obeyed it to the letter, but he did not...

And the Law he was speaking of in that passage was the law of love... 2 commandments which all the law and the prophets hang on... NOT the OT and its 613 laws




posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:44 PM
link   
a reply to: borntowatch

Here is what I believe:

I believe in One God the Father Almighty, the Maker of Heaven and Earth and of all things both visible and invisible.
I believe in One Lord,Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only Begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages,
Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not made, of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made,
who for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became Man,
He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried and on the third day rose again according to the Scriptures,
He ascended into Heaven where He is seated at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory, to judge the living and the dead, and His Kingdom shall have no end,
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified, who spake by the Prophets,
and I believe in One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church,
I confess One Baptism for the Remission of sins,
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the age to come.
Amen.

This is the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed which the Faith that I confess follows,

I am a member of the Holy Eastern Orthodox Catholic Christian Church, specifically under jurisdiction of the Russian Orthodox Church,

God bless



posted on May, 22 2014 @ 05:46 PM
link   
a reply to: godlover25




The LORD said to me, "Go, show your love to your wife again, though she is loved by another and is an adulteress. Love her as the LORD loves the Israelites, though they turn to other gods and love the sacred raisin cakes." (Hos 3:1) - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


What does Jesus have against raisin cakes?



For me it's the sheer evidence we have for the historicity of Jesus and the fact that it's impossible to deny His existence, - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


What are you talking about? Jesus doesn't exist today, in the here and now.



In my mind, Satan is the perpetrator of chaos, evil and death, so to imagine a world where Satan is god is unthinkable...


Yes. You said it. It's in your mind and your imagination.



new topics

top topics



 
13
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join