What Happens When You Don't Vaccinate

originally posted by: Astyanax


As far as I know, there is no longer any polio in my country. The thought that it may return, spread from Pakistan (which is in roughly the same region, with lots of trade and people going back and forth) is terrifying. And the thought that it could happen because of a bunch of conspiracy-theory-spreading religious boneheads with guns makes me furious.

But what is equally terrifying is the headway the Western anti-vaccine lobby is making among ill-informed people in America and other countries. People who won't vaccinate become a reservoir of infection in which disease can survive and proliferate for generations. These people are playing with fire. It is time for good sense to prevail; let those who understand the importance of vaccination start making their own voices heard!

[SNIP]

Vaccinations can and do cause more harm than good in many cases. Your worried about " your country" that doesn't have Polio? WHY - by your own admission everyone in your country is already vaccinated. There can be no threat.

Why didn't you take the case of: Hey, there is A Problem here, perhaps with the vaccines so why don't we Fix the Problem with the Vaccines First so everyone is happy?

But no.. you can only see a very narrow slice of the big picture.

a reply to: Rob48

If you say so. My children are not vaccinated and they only eat good, wholesome organic food. They don't have poison vaccines and GMO, among other chemical science experiments coursing through their veins and brains. It is no coincidence that they are ALL at the top of their respective classes in EVERY area of study. If you want to trust in profit driven pseudo-science then that is your right to choose that.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

It is no coincidence that they are ALL at the top of their respective classes in EVERY area of study.

I'm glad to hear it. Hopefully they pay attention in science class

originally posted by: Rob48
Stop bringing the CIA into it. If they injected anything into people at all it was probably saline solution. The fakery was in the entire programme, not in the vaccine! The CIA are dumb.

Sure, you want me to stop pointing out your freaky Conspiracy Theory concerning the CIA. After all, you are supposed to pretend there is no such thing as a government conspiracy.

You really NEVER seem to remember ever what you said in your previous post. Last time you claimed that the CIA had people injected with a FAKE vaccine. Now you proclaim that only the "entire programme" was fake? And the cases of polio are just by coincidence concentrated in the area of the "fake programme"?

If the CIA was so dumb, were they made accountable for it? Or do they get away with inappropriate, "dumb" programs, evidently destroying dozens of lifes, and there is no investigation?

"The general public is clueless about science. They see a chemical name and freak out."
No surprise you are not willing to open your mind to whatever doesn't fit into your dream world. So you keep on insulting people en masse, American public is clueless and freak out, people in other countries are "clowns", those who disagree with you have a "wrong-headed attitude" and are member of an "anti-science brigade". Because YOU have a 4 year degree.

Your attitude shows that your actual argument holds no water.

Your own statements also prove total ignorance of the subject.
"DDT? Care to explain how a pesticide causes a viral infection?" Diagnosis is made on the basis of a presence of Antibodies to polio-virus, along with symptoms of paralysis - which are the result of the vaccination - and, decades ago, of mutagenic pesticites ! Isolation of the virus itself is hardly ever accomplished - according to the CDC.
www.cdc.gov...

There are plenty more medical doctors who proved willing to destroy their careers to help us "clueless" people become aware of the deception. If you describe them as "advocate", they deserve praise for it.
Vaccine's Safety: A Crime Against Humanity


If the CIA is doing this to people in other countries, how can you be sure they are not doing it to us in the US?

originally posted by: ThinkingHuman

originally posted by: Rob48
Stop bringing the CIA into it. If they injected anything into people at all it was probably saline solution. The fakery was in the entire programme, not in the vaccine! The CIA are dumb.

Sure, you want me to stop pointing out your freaky Conspiracy Theory concerning the CIA. After all, you are supposed to pretend there is no such thing as a government conspiracy.

Eh? Who is pretending? I pointed out that there WAS a government conspiracy, and how stupid it was to bring conspiracies into public health programmes. All it does is lead to mistrust of vaccination, of which there is already more than enough.

You really NEVER seem to remember ever what you said in your previous post. Last time you claimed that the CIA had people injected with a FAKE vaccine. Now you proclaim the vaccine was real, only the "entire programme" was fake?

Where did I proclaim that the vaccine was real? I don't know what they were injecting. I said "it was probably saline", because that is inert and if I had to inject somebody with something that would have no effect then that is what I would use. I don't know the ins and outs of a covert CIA operation, surprisingly! In fact, on doing some more reading it appears that genuine vaccinations WERE still being given, but being used as a cover for the CIA's initiative to collect DNA: news.sciencemag.org...

If the CIA was so dumb, were they made accountable for it? Or do they get away with inappropriate, "dumb" programs, evidently destroying dozens of lifes, and there is no investigation?

They certainly attracted plenty of criticism, from the WHO among others. See link above.

Your own statements also prove total ignorance of the subject.
"DDT? Care to explain how a pesticide causes a viral infection?" Diagnosis is made on the basis of a presence of Antibodies to polio-virus, along with symptoms of paralysis - which are the result of the vaccination! Isolation of the virus itself is hardly ever accomplished - according to the CDC.
www.cdc.gov...

Nice bit of selective quoting there! The page says that isolation from cerebrospinal fluid is "rarely accomplished", which is why isolation from stool samples is used in addition. Please direct me to ANY evidence that implicates DDT in poliomyelitis infection. And I mean evidence, not NaturalNews.com style scare stories.

My main question to you is: why on Earth are you so against a programme that has WIPED OUT polio in most of the developed world? Do you really want to go back to having 10,000 or 20,000 children struck by polio each year in the USA alone? What is it that offends you so much about scientists working to wipe out disease? Is it the profit? We live in a capitalist world. If you want private companies to devote time and effort to developing drugs then they have to make a profit. Unless you want some sort of communist society in which drugs are centrally developed by the government... but I suspect you don't want that either.

If the CIA is doing this to people in other countries, how can you be sure they are not doing it to us in the US?

What, giving people vaccinations while collecting their DNA? I cannot be SURE, but I consider it pretty unlikely that they care enough about Joe Shlub's DNA to bother. They did what they did in a misguided attempt to track down Bin Laden, who was Public Enemy Number 1 in the CIA's world.

You seem to think I am some sort of apologist for the US government. I'm not. I'm not even American, I'm British. My opinion of the US government is a hell of a lot lower than my opinion of the medical profession as a whole. The CIA should not get involved in vaccination.

originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: ThinkingHuman
Sure, you want me to stop pointing out your freaky Conspiracy Theory concerning the CIA. After all, you are supposed to pretend there is no such thing as a government conspiracy.

Eh? Who is pretending? I pointed out that there WAS a government conspiracy, and how stupid it was...

You don't even understand English? I did not say you pretended, I said you were supposed to pretend that there are no CIA conspiracies.

They certainly attracted plenty of criticism, from the WHO among others. See link above.

CIA can do anything with impunity? No investigation, no repercussions for those involved in such activity, is fine with you? Because they only maimed "clowns", right? And its better than being "droned", right?

Where did I proclaim that the vaccine was real?

You must be working on this without interruption. I corrected my mistake 5 minutes after I posted it.

Nice bit of selective quoting there! The page says that isolation from cerebrospinal fluid is "rarely accomplished", which is why isolation from stool samples is used in addition.

Nice bit of selective quoting there! The page says that a stool sample "does not constitute proof of a causal association of such viruses with paralytic poliomyelitis". Is your English good enough for that? Nice job misleading, though.

You did not answer my question, If the CIA is doing this to people in other countries, how can you be sure they are not doing it to us in the US (or the UK)?

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: OptimusSubprime

It is no coincidence that they are ALL at the top of their respective classes in EVERY area of study.

I'm glad to hear it. Hopefully they pay attention in science class

Good for you, OptimusSubprime, they are clearly paying better attention in science class than those Vaccine-Poison-deniers!

originally posted by: ThinkingHuman
CIA can do anything with impunity? No investigation, no repercussions for those involved in such activity, is fine with you? Because they only maimed "clowns", right? And its better than being "droned", right?

Please explain how gathering DNA under the cover of a vaccination program "maims" anybody?

And while we are on the subject of reading comprehension, you might want to look at who it was I called "clowns":

Until some clown who refuses to get vaccinated travels to the Middle East and brings it back home with them.

I did not suggest, as you claim, that people in other countries are "clowns". I suggested that people who refuse to get vaccinated are clowns, and they are.

Nice bit of selective quoting there! The page says that isolation from cerebrospinal fluid is "rarely accomplished", which is why isolation from stool samples is used in addition.

Nice bit of selective quoting there! The page says that a stool sample "does not constitute proof of a causal association of such viruses with paralytic poliomyelitis". Is your English good enough for that? Nice job misleading, though.

We could go round in circles all day. "The likelihood of poliovirus isolation is highest from stool specimens, intermediate from pharyngeal swabs, and low from blood or spinal fluid. The isolation of poliovirus from stool specimens contributes to the diagnostic evaluation but does not constitute proof of a causal association of such viruses with paralytic poliomyelitis.[1] Isolation of virus from the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) is diagnostic but is rarely accomplished. Because virus shedding can be intermittent and to increase the probability of poliovirus isolation, at least two stool specimens and two throat swabs should be obtained 24 hours apart from patients with suspected poliomyelitis as early in the course of the disease as possible".

You concentrated on the CSF and totally ignored the throat swabs and stool samples.

To me, this closes the case of your flawed assertions about polio and the vaccine.

Says the person who claims polio is caused by DDT!

If anyone is desperate enough to want my DNA, they will get it whether I am vaccinated or not.

And you still haven't answered my main question: why do you want to return to the dark ages where infectious disease was a major killer?

When you travel overseas, do you refuse to get tetanus jabs, yellow fever vaccinations etc? Or is it only polio that you have a bee in your bonnet about?

Not my business ,I am not under than 5years old,don't worry about polio.

originally posted by: Rob48
We could go round in circles all day...

Do I need to remind you that you accused me of quoting selectively. Don’t complain to me now, after I show you that I was correct in the first place:

The CSF sample is rarely done, the stool sample does not prove a causation. The CDC site does not indicate in how many cases, either from swabs, stool or CSF, the virus is identified, nor, in how many cases they are able to do the “sequencing to determine whether the poliovirus isolate is wild or vaccine-related” i.e. Vaccine-Associated Poliomyelitis Paralysis, VAPP, according to CDC.

Please explain how gathering DNA under the cover of a vaccination program "maims" anybody?

Are you really THAT tunnel-sighted? If they have a fake vaccination program specifically in that region, and then specifically in that region there are many cases of polio, which in other instances has been caused by a polio vaccine, it is highly suspicious that those cases may be related in some way to the vaccination drive. Btw, a similar relationship is not unusual for medicines, such as epilepsy medication causing seizures.

You put the following paragraph into your post as if it were yours, when indeed it was a quote from me:

originally posted by: ThinkingHuman
(quoting myself) Nice bit of selective quoting there! The page says that a stool sample "does not constitute proof of a causal association of such viruses with paralytic poliomyelitis". Is your English good enough for that? Nice job misleading, though. (end of my quote)

why do you want to return to the dark ages where infectious disease was a major killer?

There we go, “dark ages”, the Bogeyman will get you if you don’t obey!
Oldest trick in the hate, when the arguments are exposed as fake, scare people into compliance.

There is plenty of neutral science. That is why we have peer review.

Peer review forces authors to be conformist - otherwise they will not get published - and they will never get project financing again from corporations that want to have they products approved for sale. It is a broken system.

My main question to you is: why on Earth are you so against a programme that has WIPED OUT polio in most of the developed world? Do you really want to go back to having 10,000 or 20,000 children struck by polio each year in the USA alone?

Because it is hype, void of unbiased, objective science. I don’t want my kids to get polio, I want them to be smart, just like OptimusSubprime.
My main question to you is: why on Earth do they add mercury, aluminum, formaldehyde, pesticites, and other poisons to vaccines? Knowing that injections circumvent most natural defense mechanisms. Why?