Trending now.....Two teenage boys shot dead in California during burglary attempt

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: intrepid

intrepid, it is not a sad commentary on America.
It is a sad commentary on the criminals that got shot and dies committing a crime.

most criminals commit 250
crimes for every one they are caught.

I would add that anyone unwilling to protect their family is a sad commentary.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

At what point during a home invasion/ robbery is it okay to defend yourself and your home?

When you or your family is in danger. Many of these kids that have gotten killed lately were unarmed the people that did the shooting could have just as easily held them at gun point until the police arrived there was no need to shoot them. Even in states that recognize Castle doctrine you have to prove that you feared imminent peril of death or serious bodily harm to him or herself or another.

If someone breaks into your home while you are there, that is proof enough for Castle Doctrine to apply. Nowhere in the law does it say you should wait around to see how the intruder plans to hurt you before you do something about it.

I've met a lot of police officers and none of them would EVER recommend "holding someone at gun point" while you call the cops. A: the thief will run away and probably come back later as soon as you say "freeze" B: the ones who don't run away will come at you because you just proved you don't have the balls to pull the trigger. There's no way that one person can control 2 people while waiting for the police to arrive. Your idea is a good way to end up dead.

I'm very curious why so many people keep saying "they were just there to steal, they didn't deserve to die." How can you POSSIBLY know their intentions? The Castle Doctrine assumes that someone breaking into your home has intentions that most likely involve bodily harm to the occupant and deadly force is justified. That is the law in many states so clearly our state legislators aren't as optimistic about the character of criminals as the bleeding-heart apologists.

If your a parent and don't know your lil Bobby isn't going to
burg some old lady's house, knock off a liquor store or commit
a homicide? Maybe it's because he has certain tats or something.
I'm pretty sure all juvenile gang members have parents. Who's
responsible for them?

Anybody?

If you don't know your kid. You most likely shouldn't be a parent.
There are way to many ignoramuces that are that's for damn sure.

Spellcheck

originally posted by: intrepid

People have a right to defend themselves. Did the woman put 6 rounds in their head or something? Maybe I missed that part..

One or 6 doesn't matter. Dead is dead. They aren't defending themselves. They are defending PROPERTY.

You don't know what the intentions of an intruder are. You don't know if an intruder is armed or not. You don't know how far a person is willing to go to get what he/she wants. What are you going to do? Ask them first? I guarantee the intruder will be reluctant to explain themselves. Then what will the intruder do when you confront him/her? The non-compliant intruder has two choices. Fight or flight. If he chooses flight, he knows what you're driveway looks like when you are home, and will be better prepared and informed to come again at a time when you're not home. Should have nipped it in the bud, imo. That way you don't have to live your life in fear of uncertainty. BUT If he chooses fight, it becomes less of an opinion. You better hope he doesn't have a gun. Because if you think you're going to ask questions and he does have a gun, you'll likely be dead before you can even react.

When it comes to home invasion, shoot first ask questions later. Its for your own safety, not just the protection of your stuff.


What would you do?

I know there are a lot of posts here, but I just want to add that I was down in Rio on business recently and there was a guy sitting at an out door café and a gang of teens came by and took his wallet....well they cut his throat first then took his wallet as he bled out. We put this magical age of 18 on the difference of when the innocence become evil adults, but that is not really the case in the real world we live in, and people need to understand that.

Edit to add:

We do not know the physical capacity of the one who pulled the trigger, not everyone is fit enough to handle anyone with intent.

a reply to: randyvs

blame the parents.
typical social worker mentality.

originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: intrepid

intrepid, it is not a sad commentary on America.
It is a sad commentary on the criminals that got shot and dies committing a crime.

most criminals commit 250
crimes for every one they are caught.

I would add that anyone unwilling to protect their family is a sad commentary.

Yeah man, great point. Its sad that people don't value their own peaceful lives and the peaceful lives of those around them, minding their own business over the lives of people who come with the intent to disrupt that peace who would go as far as killing you over a t.v. set and some jewelry.

Maybe he thinks he should try to fight the intruder, instead. If he loses the fight though, he might rape his wife and daughter. So what kind of real man wants to wait around and find out? Not much of one. Only a fickle man. And we all know what type of men those people are.

Im proud to live in a country where the criminals know that if they play their game, its a dangerous one, and they might not make it out alive. I'm proud to live in a country of self-respecting men and women who enforce justice with a strong arm. And I feel pity for those countries who don't have the opportunities we are given in America. America is truly a great nation of people who understand life and the value of freedom and individual sovereignty. I'd hate to live anywhere else.

a reply to: rockflier

the best bear repellent is a .30-06 cal. rifle

a reply to: randyvs

go out to one of the busiest streets/highways close to
your house tomorrow, and watch some of the drivers
and cars pass by, taking special care to note the license
tags displayed on the cars. most of them will be from Ca.

and now contemplate this fact with your observation that
"There are way to many ignoramuses that are that's for damn sure."


I rest my case.

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: randyvs

blame the parents.
typical social worker mentality.

I'm a parent and myself and my wife put a lot of time and effort in our kids. This doesn't mean that none will grow up to be "bad", but it sure helps. I can tell you EVERYTHING starts and stops in the home, and the family that thinks the school, government, social workers etc are there to pick up where the parents are lacking are seriously delusional, but it also hard to blame them since that is what society is basically feeding them.

originally posted by: Mikeultra
a reply to: Aazadan

This lady didn't own a gun either. Luckily she survived and the home invader was caught. He just got out of prison. Department of Corrections doesn't fix these problems. Deadly force does! Good luck to you if you should ever be in a similar situation, and you think the criminal will have mercy on you. Not a wise choice. But that's for you and your loved ones to deal with. Don't expect others that actually have self respect for themselves to roll over and play dead.

Please, everyone who is saying that home invaders don't deserve to be shot, watch this video in its entirety. The woman is lucky to be alive and I don't think for one second that it would have mattered to the guy one bit if she lived or died. He was beating her to cause the maximum amount of damage and kept coming back for more.

After watching that video, how can anyone say you should stand back and let someone commit a crime inside your home because "they're just stealing your property"? Do you think that she had time to "reason" with this man before he brutally attacked her in front of her child?

There is no way you can know a person's intentions. If someone is committing a crime, you can't predict how far they'll go to avoid capture. "Hoping for the best" is not a valid defensive strategy. End of discussion.

a reply to: spirited75

typical social worker mentality.

No that's life. And I'm far from even liking
social workers. I find thier general mentality to
be that of a child molester. Now what?
You must have experience with "em?

I rest my case.

You most likely rest to much.

a reply to: randyvs

then do not blame the parents.
about 9-11 years old a child will
begin to assert their own will in their life.

a reply to: Vasa Croe
The one where the man was convicted was different. That guy deserved to be charged because after he shot the girl and stopped her he put the gun under her chin and executed her even though the threat was obviously nuetralized. Then instead of calling police he moved the bodies with tarps to his basement.

He was a murderer.If he'd have stopped after stopping the threat (I think he waited up and never felt threatened) then id say it was justified. I dont know all the details of this most recent story.

a reply to: randyvs


you are commenting on the morons who are
parents and the social system you live in is in Ca.

a reply to: spirited75

begin to assert their own will in their life.

Do you just let them become gang members?
People like you are where gang members come from.
Oh I love my kids so much I just let them do whatever!

You are responsible for everything your child does till
their eighteen. And rightly so.

you are commenting on the morons who are
parents and the social system you live in is in Ca.

So.........

S&F for posting this. I am SO tired of people crying over the dead criminals, instead of applauding the people that defended themselves! I am also tired of the "why don't you shoot to wound" mentality as well. How about people simply stop being criminals, then we won't have to discuss this at all? I have said this before, and will say it again. If someone breaks into my house, I am not waiting to see how old they are, what color they are, if they are armed or not, or asking them what they plan to do. I am defending my home and children, period.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: spirited75

You are responsible for everything your child does till
their eighteen. And rightly so.

That's not a fair statement. When I was a kid, I did things that my mom was unaware of and that she couldn't have predicted or prevented. The rebel child isn't made a rebel by a parent who's passive. The rebel child, by definition, does not subscribe to the authority of a parent. Is it my parents' fault that they whipped me too much and punished too severely? You could argue that, but then, you're argument is already that children aren't punished enough. The fact is, my influences came from all directions, not just my parents, and most of my influence came from my peers at school. Its not like parents can just take you out of school. So its not their fault I am who I am today and its not their fault I did what I did back then. I am my own person and I've made my own choices all my life. I am responsible.

I don't look at gang members and wonder if they
have great parents or not. No matter what age they are.
So when this type of thing happens, I have pity for kids
not for the people who never said no and don't understand
discipline. Spare the Rod and spoil their child.

It's a sickness and it's rampant everywhere.

Ca. WTF?

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: randyvs
parents and the social system you live in is in Ca.

Worst state in America.