Trending now.....Two teenage boys shot dead in California during burglary attempt

originally posted by: abe froman

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
I am really just tired of all the bleeding hearts on the other side of the story complaining about how robbers don't deserve death.

Theft = death? Property is worth more than a life? Only in America.

*shakes head*

Don't rob houses if you don't want to die....simple logic and common sense people.....

That's an extremely sad commentary on American society.

What's your address?

That comment deserves a beer!



Maybe some of these folks should post signs that they don't believe in shooting to kill in their windows.

a reply to: LadyGreenEyes

What page is that post on? I want to go give that person a star.

a reply to: smithjustinb

That's not a fair statement.

You're not dead or in prison. Hell some parents are gang members.
I feel sorry for thier kids in a big way. Am I wrong?

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: spirited75
a reply to: randyvs
parents and the social system you live in is in Ca.

Worst state in America.

What the hell does that have to with a G-D thing?

It just crushes me, whenever I hear of kids getting killed
over senseless crap. I hate it with a passion.
But the world just keeps on turn'n.
May God have mercy on these two youngsters. Because they
lived in world that had none.

a reply to: smithjustinb

Second page, I believe. If not, then the third.

Best comment on the thread so far!

a reply to: randyvs

social worker rock and roll.

randy, here is a fact to put in your pipe and smoke.

In spite of OVERWHELMING social and family pressure
to conform to society and follow the laws,
some people at about the age of 9 choose to solve their problems illegally.

the overwhelming pressure comes from mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, aunts uncles cousins, older siblings, next door neighbors, teachers, police officers, school principals, firemen, store owners, cub scout leaders, preachers, mailmen, boy scout leaders, coaches, and in spite of this some children at about the age of nine choose to solve their problems illegally.

I'd rather be an alive uncaring, cold and morally and mentally unsound person than caring, compassionate and dead.

a reply to: randyvs

give me your mailing address
and I will send you a box of kleenex.

and by crushes you does that mean you are flattened?

a reply to: spirited75

and by crushes you does that mean you are flattened?

Not at all. It means I'm a human being. And that I don't lack
compassion for other human beings. And also that I'm badass
enough to feel comfortable doing so. In front of God and
everybody. So send me your address and I'll pick up the kleenex
personally.

And I don't smoke.....anything.

Not at all. It means I'm a human being. And that I don't lack
compassion for other human beings.
So send me your address and I'll pick up the kleenex personally.

And I don't smoke.....anything.

sorry, to come back to literal concrete language,
the comment about put in pipe.... is a figure of speech.
[snipped]

In spite of OVERWHELMING social and family pressure
to conform to society and follow the laws,
some people at about the age of 9 choose to solve their problems illegally.

the overwhelming pressure comes from mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, aunts uncles cousins, older siblings, next door neighbors, teachers, police officers, school principals, firemen, store owners, cub scout leaders, preachers, mailmen, boy scout leaders, coaches, and in spite of this some children at about the age of nine choose to solve their problems illegally.

that bears repeating:

In spite of OVERWHELMING social and family pressure
to conform to society and follow the laws,
some people at about the age of 9 choose to solve their problems illegally.

the overwhelming pressure comes from mom, dad, grandma, grandpa, aunts uncles cousins, older siblings, next door neighbors, teachers, police officers, school principals, firemen, store owners, cub scout leaders, preachers, mailmen, boy scout leaders, coaches, and in spite of this some children at about the age of nine choose to solve their problems illegally.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
S&F for posting this. I am SO tired of people crying over the dead criminals, instead of applauding the people that defended themselves! I am also tired of the "why don't you shoot to wound" mentality as well. How about people simply stop being criminals, then we won't have to discuss this at all? I have said this before, and will say it again. If someone breaks into my house, I am not waiting to see how old they are, what color they are, if they are armed or not, or asking them what they plan to do. I am defending my home and children, period.

If you choose to use a gun to defend your home that's fine. However, you have a responsibility to save the life of whoever you shoot. If you confront them, shoot them. If they don't go down shoot them again and again until they do. The second they're down, call an ambulance and give first aid. If they die due to your inaction you're a murderer and should be charged as such. From the moment you pull the trigger it's your responsibility to see they make it to trial if possible. Protection is fine, killing someone because you want to kill them outside of the justice system is not.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Link to original story...

Source

And sure enough the "he is a good person" quote came up...

As FOX40 was news gathering, we spotted several people in tears, walking to the scene of the shooting. One of the girls was Ashleigh Davison, Crider’s girlfriend. She and her mother said he was a 17 year-old boy with no parents, had no home, and was in and out of Child Protective Services his entire life.

They believe the system had failed him.

“I don’t blame them for doing what they did,” Ashleigh’s mother, Tracy Webb said about the shooting. “It’s not right to break in and to burglarize people’s homes. No, it’s not. But at the same time, a life has been lost. A life has been taken. I’m sure he and a friend, Michael Sambrano, were doing what they thought they needed to do to survive.”

“He is a good person,” Davison cried. “Was a good person. He was just misunderstood.”

Yeah....he was a good person, who robbed innocent people, and was misunderstood. So did I misunderstand that he robbed an elderly woman? And most likely more than once? Give me a break.

to survive too!!


seriously mom?

originally posted by: Aazadan
If you choose to use a gun to defend your home that's fine. However, you have a responsibility to save the life of whoever you shoot. If you confront them, shoot them. If they don't go down shoot them again and again until they do. The second they're down, call an ambulance and give first aid. If they die due to your inaction you're a murderer and should be charged as such. From the moment you pull the trigger it's your responsibility to see they make it to trial if possible. Protection is fine, killing someone because you want to kill them outside of the justice system is not.

there are three places that you can use deadly force even if the person that you use deadly force upon is not using deadly force on you.
1. home. 2. vehicle. 3. any other place that you have a legal right to be.

it is ludicrous to postulate that after you shoot someone it is your job to help them make it to trial.

Do you really think that after getting up at 230 am and shooting three home invaders with your .222 Remington magnum semi auto varmint rifle that you will be giving CPR to any or all of the three still breathing?

You might be calming your spouse, the children, vomiting,
or a number of other things, like holding the weapon on
any of them still alive and waiting till the police got there.

Just saying, police can't help you. By the time they show up, you could be dead. We were walking our dogs in OUR yard, when a neighbors dog attacked my lab, and I got my gf and beagle inside, and went back as the other full sized dog had my labs throat in its jaws, and was looking to rip his throat out. I punched the other dog in the ribs till it let go, it bit my hand and I almost lost a finger. Called cops as I ran inside after getting loose, and the dogs were still going at it. Cops showed up at my house 5 hours later, AFTER I WAS HOME FROM THE ER! Sorry but local cops don't give a f*** unless it is a DUI or something involving drug busts. All I see everyday is how cops bust people for minute things that are illegal, and not harming anyone but themselves...... I call 911 for first time in 15 years, only other time was a heart attack victim 15 years ago, and wow..... 5 hours to respond to dogs killing each other with my finger hanging off. 911 operator even told me I was being childish by calling her.... as my finger is hanging by the skin. She didn't care, cops didn't care. No EMS response so I drove myself with a finger bleeding out all over my car..... yet cops were called to a party weeks before next door, showed up in force on a weekday and had guns drawn at underage kids just drinking and not even being that bad. Music was up but no one was out being dumb, or driving. Then you see the stories of cops killing random people who should have been innocent or just given a citation. Hell even had one pull me over and DUI check me for speeding and no turn signal when I did neither, argued it to him, and he said "I don't care I was pulling you over anyways.", he unbuckled his gun and told me to step out. No drinking, no anything illegal, just working till midnight as a chef, and he figures he can pull me over and try to DUI test me because I worked late, on a 12 hour shift, in a busy kitchen all day and night!!!!! Yet they can't come to your aid, unless they can give out citations for potentially harmless crimes.

If you gotta defend your home, do so. Cops don't do anything besides collect money from people who don't have it, then tell you that $20 a month is too little to pay for a $115 fine. If you have a gun use it, WITHIN REASON!

BTW my dog turned out OK! Never would harm a fly but after being attacked and seeing me in harms way he literally grabbed the dog like a puppy by it's neck (only they were both full sized) and dragged it to the neighbors porch, and released the neighbors dog who attacked us, to it's grateful owners at the front door. Thank you Jack, my faithful lab, and our beagle Rubi for howling from indoors (lol), or my finger, or more may have been gone. This thread tells me, if someone tries to break into your house, not kill them, but seriously, if you do, it's your right. I hope I never need to shoot a human being, but if someone were to break into my house and I tried to deter them, and they didn't run away, a bullet in them is next. Idiots for even trying. Pump action sound should deter, but this was an old lady, and she prob was lucky to even have a good shot.

originally posted by: spirited75

originally posted by: Aazadan
If you choose to use a gun to defend your home that's fine. However, you have a responsibility to save the life of whoever you shoot. If you confront them, shoot them. If they don't go down shoot them again and again until they do. The second they're down, call an ambulance and give first aid. If they die due to your inaction you're a murderer and should be charged as such. From the moment you pull the trigger it's your responsibility to see they make it to trial if possible. Protection is fine, killing someone because you want to kill them outside of the justice system is not.

there are three places that you can use deadly force even if the person that you use deadly force upon is not using deadly force on you.
1. home. 2. vehicle. 3. any other place that you have a legal right to be.

it is ludicrous to postulate that after you shoot someone it is your job to help them make it to trial.

Do you really think that after getting up at 230 am and shooting three home invaders with your .222 Remington magnum semi auto varmint rifle that you will be giving CPR to any or all of the three still breathing?

You might be calming your spouse, the children, vomiting,
or a number of other things, like holding the weapon on
any of them still alive and waiting till the police got there.

I agree! I hope I never, or anyone reading this for that matter, never needs to use deadly force; or even a gun period. If the time does come, yell out, pump the shot gun, something, if they don't run (or sometimes if they do depending...) shoot them. Just make sure they aren't family or friends looking for refuge for somereason, or just a stranger in a car crash looking for a phone or help. THERE HAVE BEEN SHOOTINGS BY COPS AND CIVILIANS ON THOSE SEEKING HELP FROM A MOTOR VEHICLE ACCIDENT, ETC.

simple solution to a criminal home invader:
use pointed soft point or hollow point ammunition.
out of a center fire .22 rifle.
ignoring internal and external ballistics, we can focus on terminal ballistics.

upon contact a pointed soft point bullet traveling at 3,200 feet per second and spinning at about 250,000 revolutions per minute will have the soft point of the bullet become flattened and unbalanced. and since it is a copper jacketed bullet, the soft point extruding out the end of the copper jacket, will begin to disintegrate. by disintegrate, i mean it will literally come apart in less time than it takes it to travel two inches. at 3200 feet per second, two inches of travel takes about (opens calculator) 1/19,200 of a second. the disintegration will cause the lead core to separate into roughly 25-125 smaller pieces all still traveling at well over 2000 feet per second. these pieces will act like tiny little saw blades and will cut muscle, crack bones, sever both veins and arteries, cut nerves and penetrate other organs such as lung, heart, liver, stomach, intestines and kidneys. it will also, because of a physical property of the human body cause hydrostatic shock. this shock wave is a result of fluid displacement within the cavity of the body and a wave of ripple that radiates out from the point of impact. there is also a huge transfer of energy from the bullet into the object it penetrates. the bullet is traveling with between 1,100 to 1500 foot pounds of energy. this will be transferred completely from the bullet into the body cavity of the recipient.

why would you even consider giving a criminal CPR in the first place.
they probably have Hep C, AIDS, or some other disease.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
S&F for posting this. I am SO tired of people crying over the dead criminals, instead of applauding the people that defended themselves! I am also tired of the "why don't you shoot to wound" mentality as well. How about people simply stop being criminals, then we won't have to discuss this at all? I have said this before, and will say it again. If someone breaks into my house, I am not waiting to see how old they are, what color they are, if they are armed or not, or asking them what they plan to do. I am defending my home and children, period.

If you choose to use a gun to defend your home that's fine. However, you have a responsibility to save the life of whoever you shoot. If you confront them, shoot them. If they don't go down shoot them again and again until they do. The second they're down, call an ambulance and give first aid. If they die due to your inaction you're a murderer and should be charged as such. From the moment you pull the trigger it's your responsibility to see they make it to trial if possible. Protection is fine, killing someone because you want to kill them outside of the justice system is not.

Depending. If they were not running, or you fear them, or friends may come hunt you down, even if it's in 30 years when they are out of prison, shoot them dead. It all depends on situation. This seems like an old lady freaked out, but if they have weapons, shoot them till they are down. Why try to keep them alive, you are not a murderer. If they kill you they are a murderer.

This old lady obviously was scared, and can't protect herself without a gun. I also doubt she could save a gunshot victim.

originally posted by: spirited75
simple solution to a criminal home invader:
use pointed soft point or hollow point ammunition.
out of a center fire .22 rifle.
ignoring internal and external ballistics, we can focus on terminal ballistics.

upon contact a pointed soft point bullet traveling at 3,200 feet per second and spinning at about 250,000 revolutions per minute will have the soft point of the bullet become flattened and unbalanced. and since it is a copper jacketed bullet, the soft point extruding out the end of the copper jacket, will begin to disintegrate. by disintegrate, i mean it will literally come apart in less time than it takes it to travel two inches. at 3200 feet per second, two inches of travel takes about (opens calculator) 1/19,200 of a second. the disintegration will cause the lead core to separate into roughly 25-125 smaller pieces all still traveling at well over 2000 feet per second. these pieces will act like tiny little saw blades and will cut muscle, crack bones, sever both veins and arteries, cut nerves and penetrate other organs such as lung, heart, liver, stomach, intestines and kidneys. it will also, because of a physical property of the human body cause hydrostatic shock. this shock wave is a result of fluid displacement within the cavity of the body and a wave of ripple that radiates out from the point of impact. there is also a huge transfer of energy from the bullet into the object it penetrates. the bullet is traveling with between 1,100 to 1500 foot pounds of energy. this will be transferred completely from the bullet into the body cavity of the recipient.

why would you even consider giving a criminal CPR in the first place.
they probably have Hep C, AIDS, or some other disease.

Good work nerd!
Seriously though, I think of friends from war, that have taken bullets without knowing they were shot. But what you're saying about a specific bullet, that could stop an intruder. A shortened pump action is my bet for the reasons....
1) Pump action sound is a deterrent.
2) Short barrel (18.5" is shortest legally? May be wrong) can spread the shot wider over a shorter distance (in an apartment or house with rooms/hallways).
3) This, unless a critical hit, won't kill the intruder hopefully, just scare them off, or wound them.
4) You don't want to actually kill the intruder unless they are willing to do so to you or your family and friends.
5) Man I hope I never need to use my shotgun.

a reply to: SixX18

the only bullet permitted to be fired in a war is a fully metal jacketed bullet.
since it is fully metal jacketed it works more like a 1/4 inch drill and will go completely through a human body (unless it hits a bone in transit) and only transfer a small amount of its kinetic energy (foot pounds of energy (1,100- 1,500 ft/lb]]
it will not disintegrate and it will not produce a large amount of hydrostatic shock.

in fact if a solider gets caught with, hollow point, soft point or otherwise adulterated or altered bullets, the enemy can shoot him immediately without a trial or any legal military procedures.

the only ammunition legal to use in a war is FMJ.

a reply to: SixX18

pump shotgun is fine.
and jacking a round into the chamber
from the feeding tube is an unmistakable sound
that a sober, level headed, intelligent person
in their right mind will sit up and pay attention to.

and the sound as a deterrent. deterrence refers to
stopping a crime from being acted upon.
since they are already in the house,
what exactly are you deterring them from doing??

let me inform you that even though the jacking of a round
from the feeding tube through the cycling of the pump action
sounds really threatening and definitive,
a home invader at two thirty in the morning is
probably drunk or high,
not level headed,
probably not intelligent,
and probably armed.

that means that as soon as you cycle the action with the pump,
you have told everyone in the room exactly where you are and with what you are armed.