Odessa slaughter: How vicious mob burnt anti-govt activists alive

originally posted by: BobAthome
"You think, it is right " no, but it is real rebelution, so anything can happen,
,thats why its called chaos. And death follows with it.


a reply to: Siddharta

While I was writing here you exchanged your avatar twice. Maybe you should edit your "rebelution" instead. Otherwise you are right. Chaos and death follow. And this should not be accepted by any thinking person.

a reply to: Siddharta

actually "rebelution" is not a mistake, its a form of revelution evolved by evolution into rebelution.

avatar??? its a fasion statement,, ya gotta be fluid,, u know keep up,,ride the wave,,

Don't know if this has been posted - Odessa fire survivor getting beaten to death:

WARNING: GRAPHIC

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Its a 28 second video.

No context..
What caused it...
Who is the person was who was being "beaten"
Who was the person doing the beating

There is nothing in the video that supports your claim.

I think it is well past time that Putin sent the army in if he is not in a deal with the west to push oil prices up.

Using tanks to shell hospitals and schools in the east is not on and now we have another attempted coup in another country just down the road.

The Ukraine is even using helicopters to shoot its own troups who refuse to kill civilians and the west is on side with these criminals because they have been giving out the orders from long before a single shoot was fired.

originally posted by: Siddharta

originally posted by: Vovin
the very definition of fascism is a political system where the social order is structured where a minority (aka the rich under capitalism) make the laws and run the government.

No, it is not. Fascism is simply spreading hate and calling for war and death on people, you don't like. And this is what you do all the time here.
Fascism also means using every lie to prove that the killing of other people is right. It is NEVER right.

Fascism does not accept any other view of what happens and always uses every mean to show, that the ones, who are thought to be killed, are the evil. Fascim also means, there is no way to talk anymore, beacuse this never is the goal of fascims. They want to kill their opponents and are not interested in talking.

Absolutely not. If you had any education on the subject of political ideology you would know that fascism is a description of a political system with specific attributes that make it different from other political systems.

The definition is not "simply spreading hate". That's your made-up definition that is in complete contradiction of academic social science. Of course it must be nice to believe your definition over the real definition, since the real definition fits the political ideology of many nations of the world today, probably including your own.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Its a 28 second video.

No context..
What caused it...
Who is the person was who was being "beaten"
Who was the person doing the beating

There is nothing in the video that supports your claim.

It's part of a video approximately 30 minutes long taken by somebody who was there, running around the building. I watched that whole video weeks ago. This part of the video was around the time when the video shows other people jumping from windows, albeit police were at that scene but not the one that was posted here.

originally posted by: Vovin
If you had any education on the subject of political ideology you would know that fascism is a description of a political system with specific attributes that make it different from other political systems.

"Specific attributes"? Yes.
1. Extend the power, until there is no more oposition.
2. Get rid of free speech, get control over all media.
3. Spread fear and hatred against minorities.
4. Threaten neighboring countries and annex parts or the whole.
5. Use all propaganda means to accuse other powers, the countries you threaten and - not to forget - the minorities - of all the guilt.
(6. Climax and end.)

Wrote 6. in brackets, because I hope, we don't need that step again.

BTW an interesting read at buzzfeed:

Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America

originally posted by: Siddharta

originally posted by: Vovin
If you had any education on the subject of political ideology you would know that fascism is a description of a political system with specific attributes that make it different from other political systems.

"Specific attributes"? Yes.
1. Extend the power, until there is no more oposition.
2. Get rid of free speech, get control over all media.
3. Spread fear and hatred against minorities.
4. Threaten neighboring countries and annex parts or the whole.
5. Use all propaganda means to accuse other powers, the countries you threaten and - not to forget - the minorities - of all the guilt.
(6. Climax and end.)

Wrote 6. in brackets, because I hope, we don't need that step again.

BTW an interesting read at buzzfeed:

Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America

Wrong. None of those have to do with a political ideology. Political ideologies have clear descriptions, hence they are ideologies.

Fascism, as an ideology, is neutral and in theory, can even be a good thing depending on the social conditions. However, in practice it has been very violent and detrimental.

a reply to: Vovin
Odd, how this thread started with calling the Maidan fascists and now you are trying to tell me, fascism was an ideology, which could have been a good thing if it hadn't always turned out bad.

But that's okay. I wanted to give you my checklist to check out, which countries and groups fit the most. I see, you understood that very well.

a reply to: Siddharta

No comment.

originally posted by: Siddharta
a reply to: Vovin
Odd, how this thread started with calling the Maidan fascists and now you are trying to tell me, fascism was an ideology, which could have been a good thing if it hadn't always turned out bad.

But that's okay. I wanted to give you my checklist to check out, which countries and groups fit the most. I see, you understood that very well.

I never said "fascism would be a good thing if it hadn't turned out to be so bad". I said that fascism is a socioeconomic ideology and could be good depending on the conditions. There's a big difference between those two statements. I really don't think it's worth my time to sit here and describe the differences between deterministic and humanistic thought paradigms though to somebody who chooses not to understand the distinct attributes of fascist political ideology well enough to identify fascism in practice, as you have utterly failed to have done in your analysis of Ukraine.

originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: Siddharta

No comment.

I'll raise you by a rally:



Note: image came with a social media commentary claiming the junta is planning to relocate 250,000 subversives from western Ukraine to east Ukraine. Source.

Here's a good article on neo-Nazi symbology adopted by the junta's National Guard, which is directed by Internal Affairs and financed by the USA.

Nice ukrainian girl Evgenyya Kraizman (beautiful Ukrainian surname), at place of events:

originally posted by: Vovin
I really don't think it's worth my time to sit here and describe the differences between deterministic and humanistic thought paradigms though to somebody who chooses not to understand the distinct attributes of fascist political ideology well enough to identify fascism in practice, as you have utterly failed to have done in your analysis of Ukraine.

Anyway, thanks for your patience with me. We here in Germany never had any experience with such things during history and we still try to understand, what it is all about.

And also thanks for those telling pictures. If I had seen them before, I surely had not a trace of a doubt, that the Ukraine is the land of Mordor and that the shining Elves from Russia only want to hold their protecting hand above the few civilians, who are not Orcs in the mask of topless young women.

Odessa killing will go in history books. Motherlovers have no place among human beings. I am absolutely sure, it was orchestrated by US of A State Department farts. No? State Department farts. I know that one day the scum who came up with idea will die slow horrible death. I don't care who was 'him' or 'her'. That person will pay.

cheers)

a reply to: Siddharta

1920s Germany would be my case for "good" fascism. Germany's imperial rivals (like France) ravaged Germany as a state after WWI, decimating German economy and society. The Germans were put in a position where they had to adopt some kind of reactionary platform to rebuild themselves.

Of course, the choice was communism or fascism. Communism terrified the western empires, so they did much to foster and invest in the fascist movement in Germany to counter reactionary communism in the USSR.

The "good" thing about the German fascists is that they were immensely popular in Germany because they were able to not only rebuild the country, but they were able to make Germany into a much more technologically and ideologically strong nation than any other country at the time.

The problem was that the creators of the Nazi ideology were extremely radical and tried to push an extreme form of German nationalism onto the rest of the world with force. I'm not an expert with history, but I would say that the "good" boost of fascism in Germany ended around the mid 1930s, when the goal of rebuilding the country turned into the goal of vengeance against the empires that destroyed it.

History could have gone differently if the Nazi party was replaced during this shift in policy. However, the Nazis were thought to be invaluable to the west as a force that could stop the communists. But their creation turned on them instead.

My viewpoint now, of Ukraine, is similar. The western empires are trying to empower right-wing extremists in Ukraine to fight Russia, but history clearly shows that right-wingers do not see themselves as tools controlled by anybody. It is absurd to believe that the neo-Nazis in Ukraine will serve American interests after (or if) they establish Ukraine as a fascist powerhouse. Just like how the Islamofascists around the Middle East are on America's side in one region and considered terrorists in another.

originally posted by: Vovin
a reply to: Siddharta

1920s Germany would be my case for "good" fascism. Germany's imperial rivals (like France) ravaged Germany as a state after WWI, decimating German economy and society. The Germans were put in a position where they had to adopt some kind of reactionary platform to rebuild themselves.

Of course, the choice was communism or fascism. Communism terrified the western empires, so they did much to foster and invest in the fascist movement in Germany to counter reactionary communism in the USSR.

The "good" thing about the German fascists is that they were immensely popular in Germany because they were able to not only rebuild the country, but they were able to make Germany into a much more technologically and ideologically strong nation than any other country at the time.

The problem was that the creators of the Nazi ideology were extremely radical and tried to push an extreme form of German nationalism onto the rest of the world with force. I'm not an expert with history, but I would say that the "good" boost of fascism in Germany ended around the mid 1930s, when the goal of rebuilding the country turned into the goal of vengeance against the empires that destroyed it.

History could have gone differently if the Nazi party was replaced during this shift in policy. However, the Nazis were thought to be invaluable to the west as a force that could stop the communists. But their creation turned on them instead.

My viewpoint now, of Ukraine, is similar. The western empires are trying to empower right-wing extremists in Ukraine to fight Russia, but history clearly shows that right-wingers do not see themselves as tools controlled by anybody. It is absurd to believe that the neo-Nazis in Ukraine will serve American interests after (or if) they establish Ukraine as a fascist powerhouse. Just like how the Islamofascists around the Middle East are on America's side in one region and considered terrorists in another.

what is your point? Do o have a statement to make fitting in three -four lines? What an almost century old event has to do with current events in Ukraine. Please, elaborate.