Worshipping Satan?

reply to post by Jesuslives4u

Tell you what while I file the FIOA........why don't you hold your breath.

Excuse me, sir, but you are claiming all sorts of things as indisputable, commonplace, and born of Satan - and when people ask you for sources you refuse to provide any?

Oh, right - because you advised people not to believe what they read ON THE INTERNET (which is how they are managing to read your thoughts, by the way, so therefore, no one need believe what YOU are writing on the internet?)

Not to mention moving the goalposts, as others have pointed out. You're dancing around a poorly formed concept - and clearly don't know as much as you think. You've addressed Satanists, and one has come in to explain to you where you are mistaken.

You also erroneously linked witches to Satanists, and made no reply regarding your mistaken correlation between the two.

As peter vlar said, you've been given the information you asked for; shown to be in error, but still maintain that everyone ELSE needs to do their own homework?

Sorry, I didn't realize you were the only fount of knowledge available to be considered worthy, or that you are above actually investigating the very thing you're obsessing over while simultaneously IGNORING the very information you asked members on here for. *shakes head, rolls eyes*

Jesuslives4u

StallionDuck

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Jesuslives4u

 

On a demonic holiday - go to a large church after dark and pull surveillance on the church until daybreak. Do this enough times and you will find groups secretly entering these churches to place curses on them and the people who attend them. They have orgies on the altars. They urinate in holy water. Then they hold black mass and then they leave. Some of them actually have the keys to open the doors!

WHAT?!!!

What, are you writing a B-movie screenplay or something? That is the most astounding assertion of reality as I know it that I can imagine.
Did you witness these so-called groups doing all these things?

In all my days, I've never, ever heard of this.!! In what country and region of it do you live???

Fact! A group of satanist teens go into a catholic church and spraypaint the inside with all kinds of horrible words. They steal the golden goblets and various other tools used in the church. They also DEFICATE and smear it all over the walls, the altar and the pews.

This happens. It happened in my hometown not 15 years ago

Hi StallionDuck,

Thanks for the info! May I ask what city are you from? The approx. population?

The reason I ask is not only is this type of vandalism known in large cities but they are also seen in small rural communities. This particular type of church vandalism has been growing since the 1960's.

BTW - Father Martin Malachi is on the record (1998 or 1999) stating exorcism's have risen by 800% (eight HUNDRED per cent) and that was only in the New York area. Unfortunately Father Malachi was murdered - typical demonic killing on how they killed him. Cut out his tongue and cut his throat from ear to ear.

I don't like pinpointing my actual home town but I will say that it's in SW Louisiana and it's a small town of maybe 1500 people.

Sorry, I don't like giving too much info about me to the ether. Call me paranoid I just don't like it.

Later on, living in a major city in LA, my neighbor and long time childhood friend turned your kind of satanist. I also had a buddy in middle school who was the blood drinking, spell casting type of the same. I think these guys got into it because they rebelled against family and the fact that they were either demanded in church or had waaaaaaay too much freedom as a child. I can only guess. The neighbor went back and forth with it for a while but he had friends that lured him in to it. Actually praying to demons and the devil himself. The last time I knew that he got out of it, he said he had a vision in his room that scared him straight and left it alone. I remember hanging with his brother while we watched and laughed at him performing majic in an empty field around midnight, one night. The mist rolled in and I stopped laughing. Could have been just a coincidence but I didn't care. It still scared the hell out of me. This was a pretty good sized soccer field in a park.. BUT there was a canal next to it... soooo...

For those that doubt.. It doesn't happen all the time but they are there... dont be fooled thinking it's just an urban legened. I've learned a bit in my own life so I know it's real. I just never got involved because I did fear hellfire. It might be a teen phase but it still happens and it's VERY real to those teens who practice it.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Jesuslives4u

 

Tell you what while I file the FIOA........why don't you hold your breath.

Excuse me, sir, but you are claiming all sorts of things as indisputable, commonplace, and born of Satan - and when people ask you for sources you refuse to provide any?

Oh, right - because you advised people not to believe what they read ON THE INTERNET (which is how they are managing to read your thoughts, by the way, so therefore, no one need believe what YOU are writing on the internet?)

Not to mention moving the goalposts, as others have pointed out. You're dancing around a poorly formed concept - and clearly don't know as much as you think. You've addressed Satanists, and one has come in to explain to you where you are mistaken.

You also erroneously linked witches to Satanists, and made no reply regarding your mistaken correlation between the two.

As peter vlar said, you've been given the information you asked for; shown to be in error, but still maintain that everyone ELSE needs to do their own homework?

Sorry, I didn't realize you were the only fount of knowledge available to be considered worthy, or that you are above actually investigating the very thing you're obsessing over while simultaneously IGNORING the very information you asked members on here for. *shakes head, rolls eyes*

I understand that you are upset with me because of my statement about witches. I am not trying to start a fight with you but I will also not apologize for that comment. Witches do not worship the one true God in heaven and if so he is a jealous God and you can NOT worship any other god....... not Mother Earth......etc...

You live with your decisions and I will live with mine.

You make it sound like everyone on this thread is against me and you are wrong.

If you don't like what I typed no one is stopping you from leaving this thread. If this upsets you, you should leave the thread.

reply to post by Jesuslives4u

You make it sound like everyone on this thread is against me and you are wrong.

If you don't like what I typed no one is stopping you from leaving this thread. If this upsets you, you should leave the thread.

And I shall, when I'm satisfied that the message has gotten across. Now you know.

I see that others are 'with you' - I'm only pointing out (not upset) that you asked for information and then dismissed it.
I don't care what you think about me or my beliefs. I DO care if you are misrepresenting Wiccans as Satanists -

That is all.

StallionDuck

Jesuslives4u

StallionDuck

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Jesuslives4u

 

On a demonic holiday - go to a large church after dark and pull surveillance on the church until daybreak. Do this enough times and you will find groups secretly entering these churches to place curses on them and the people who attend them. They have orgies on the altars. They urinate in holy water. Then they hold black mass and then they leave. Some of them actually have the keys to open the doors!

WHAT?!!!

What, are you writing a B-movie screenplay or something? That is the most astounding assertion of reality as I know it that I can imagine.
Did you witness these so-called groups doing all these things?

In all my days, I've never, ever heard of this.!! In what country and region of it do you live???

Fact! A group of satanist teens go into a catholic church and spraypaint the inside with all kinds of horrible words. They steal the golden goblets and various other tools used in the church. They also DEFICATE and smear it all over the walls, the altar and the pews.

This happens. It happened in my hometown not 15 years ago

Hi StallionDuck,

Thanks for the info! May I ask what city are you from? The approx. population?

The reason I ask is not only is this type of vandalism known in large cities but they are also seen in small rural communities. This particular type of church vandalism has been growing since the 1960's.

BTW - Father Martin Malachi is on the record (1998 or 1999) stating exorcism's have risen by 800% (eight HUNDRED per cent) and that was only in the New York area. Unfortunately Father Malachi was murdered - typical demonic killing on how they killed him. Cut out his tongue and cut his throat from ear to ear.

I don't like pinpointing my actual home town but I will say that it's in SW Louisiana and it's a small town of maybe 1500 people.

Sorry, I don't like giving too much info about me to the ether. Call me paranoid

I just don't like it.

Later on, living in a major city in LA, my neighbor and long time childhood friend turned your kind of satanist. I also had a buddy in middle school who was the blood drinking, spell casting type of the same. I think these guys got into it because they rebelled against family and the fact that they were either demanded in church or had waaaaaaay too much freedom as a child. I can only guess. The neighbor went back and forth with it for a while but he had friends that lured him in to it. Actually praying to demons and the devil himself. The last time I knew that he got out of it, he said he had a vision in his room that scared him straight and left it alone. I remember hanging with his brother while we watched and laughed at him performing majic in an empty field around midnight, one night. The mist rolled in and I stopped laughing. Could have been just a coincidence but I didn't care. It still scared the hell out of me. This was a pretty good sized soccer field in a park.. BUT there was a canal next to it... soooo...

For those that doubt.. It doesn't happen all the time but they are there... dont be fooled thinking it's just an urban legened. I've learned a bit in my own life so I know it's real. I just never got involved because I did fear hellfire. It might be a teen phase but it still happens and it's VERY real to those teens who practice it.

edit on 1-4-2014 by StallionDuck because: (no reason given)

Thanks for your comments.

WOW!....... a town of 1500 people and the church was vandalized.

Unfortunately I have often seen this where kids get involved with the supernatural and those who don't flee end up dead...... mostly by suicide.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by Jesuslives4u

 

You make it sound like everyone on this thread is against me and you are wrong.

If you don't like what I typed no one is stopping you from leaving this thread. If this upsets you, you should leave the thread.

And I shall, when I'm satisfied that the message has gotten across. Now you know.

I see that others are 'with you' - I'm only pointing out (not upset) that you asked for information and then dismissed it.
I don't care what you think about me or my beliefs. I DO care if you are misrepresenting Wiccans as Satanists -

That is all.

I think you would be surprised to find out who all follows Satan.

reply to post by Jesuslives4u

I think you would be surprised to find out who all follows Satan.

Perhaps I would - but probably not. People have been 'following' fictitious icons for .... well forever.
As long as you realize that witches do NOT follow - or believe in - Satan, which is a purely Judeo-Christian construct, we're cool.

Cool? Okay, cool. kthxbai

reply to post by Jesuslives4u


The problem with asking questions about "Satan" is that some people call Satan "God" or "The Lord" because they believe he is the true God and the being who everyone worships as God is a liar, so they call "Satan" God and God "Satan" and pretend to be like everyone else when they know they are believing in the opposite.

Another problem is, some people think rebellion is cool, so they will call "Satan" God and "God" Satan and then say that they worship "Satan" even though they know they are really just calling God that in order to get a response out of others.

There are even some atheistic satanists who call themselves "Satan" and therefore they don't have to worship any being except themselves...


Now with all that being said I have a few questions from reading this thread:

Jesuslives4u
Again the power of Jesus name alon causes the demons to kneel.

Anyone who has been attacked knows first comes the smell then comes the attack. Not only do I have holy water but various holy anointed oils as well. In my opinion a couple of items every household needs.

Why would demons who represent evil and destruction bow down to Jesus? There are some humans that don't bow down to Jesus but a demon of complete evil and destruction would?

Jesuslives4u
I saw a recent thread about.....If a demon gave you something would you take it? (Something like this)....some said yes .....other said no. Many people are willing to sell their souls; turn their back on the creator God, to get what they want out of life because they have convinced themselves that when they die it is all over. Again another lie.

Or maybe they don't care about going to hell. Not everyone is scared of the threat of hell.

Jesuslives4u
A true follower of Satan will reject Satan in public. They will make jokes about him and attempt to embarrass anyone who talks about him.

How do you know? On Youtube there are some proud Satanists, there was even one who had a sign saying "Satan is My Lord" out in public to protest against The Westboro Baptist Church.

Jesuslives4u
Just as in Egypt when Moses explained to smear lambs blood on the outside of the door ( a mark to pass over this house); anyone who steps out of their home during the three days of darkness will die. Soon coming to your neighborhood and mine. This is the attack I speak of.

I thought blood magic was a part of Satanism? I guess everyone is doing it now. Well, if you're a Christian, you don't need to get blood, you can just use The Blood of Jesus.

Unknowningly worshiping him is what we have to worry about. Every device hooked to the internet gives him power over us. All you who have marked your bodies with ink are in spiritual debt to him. It is a hell of a system going on here. We wanted knowledge and now it will over take us. The spiritual debt is a matter of the heart and not the soul. Your heart extends between your legs.

reply to post by Jesuslives4u


I failed to mention though...

Even though "Kevin", the neighbor, got out of satanism while we were still teens, since I hadn't seen him since highschool, some many years later I tried to contact him and his brother for old times sake. A friend of ours mentioned that he had died in a car wreck. I always wonder if it might have been related. It's strange. The wreck was years later, but I'm not sure. I never had been able to find either of them.

reply to post by StallionDuck

The last time I knew that he got out of it, he said he had a vision in his room that scared him straight and left it alone.

That happens to many...

One supernatural experience can completely transform a persons beliefs in a second.

That's how it was with me.

When God shows up, things CHANGE.

Kirk Martin's experience is just one example of this:

Heavy metal rocker Kirk Martin made a pact with the devil. But then one day a mysterious stranger pinpointed Kirk's deepest secret and Kirk began a journey to God.

"I was sitting in a fast food restaurant in early morning," said Kirk. "I was rarely awake in the early mornings—I was drinking a coffee and smoking a cigarette when this old man walked in. He was about 5 foot 3 with a white bushy beard and hair, a big red nose, and he wore a little black yarmulke and a trench coat. He came in, got coffee and sat down right across from me.

Immediately I got in his face and said, 'What's up Pops?' He answered, 'What's up Pops?' I said, 'What's up Dad?' He said, 'What's up Dad?' (Imitating me) I got mad because he was mocking me, so I jumped across the table and screamed every foul, disgusting word I could possibly think of. He literally didn't budge. (Most people were scared of me—I could walk across an intersection and hear people locking their doors!)

But, this man just looked me in the eye and said, 'Jesus sent me here to tell you that He loves you.' My first gut reaction was to jump up and rip his eyeballs out of his head. But before I could get my feet to tell the rest of my body to jump, he said, 'And He wants you to know that He wasn't responsible for these young men molesting you when you were a little boy.' The interesting thing was, he called them by name. I had never told anyone that in my life.

Kirk was shocked. "I felt like someone cut my feet off and all the blood drained from my body. It honestly freaked me out; I didn't know what to think. Then the guy got up and said, 'Jesus loves you and He's waiting for you to turn your face toward home,' and he walked out. I was literally paralyzed by what had just happened, but when I got my composure back, I jumped up and ran after him because I had to know how he knew all that. The guy had to be no more than 15 or 20 feet ahead of me; he turned a corner, went behind a row of hedges and just disappeared. I never saw him again."

The Amazing Story of Kirk Martin

The Amazing Story of Kirk Martin

"I ended up going out into this field by his house and, falling to the ground, I began to curse God and spit at the name of Jesus; I began to claw the earth and said,“Satan, give me what I want, and I’ll twist and take as many people as I can to hell with music.”

Two days later, a guy who had been working as our manager called and said, “Look, there’s a record label and they want to know how much you would want to go into the studio and what budget you’d need to record.”

Read Full Story...

reply to post by Murgatroid


That vision was a demonic one. Though, yeah, I could see how it might have been brought on by good instead of evil.

Funny though, he used Anton LeVay as an icon, but he worshipped demons and the devil. He even told me of a blood sacrifice of a dog and drank it. He used the golden dawn for spells... So I guess he was in a good bit mixed together across various origines and I only realise now, knowing what I know, that he had no idea of what he put together. Anything that had the label "satanism" was used, no matter that much of it didn't relate.

I did have another good friend of mine that was a LeVay satanist. He actually knew what he was into. He was a smart guy. Though, he later fell into the whole drug scene and I have no idea what ever happened to him.

I look back and I realise, even though I had a pretty firm belief in God, though never big in churches, I seemed to hang out with the black sheep of society quite a bit. I felt more at ease around boondock types. Life was real and not all pollished like you see on TV. To a young adult, you have to understand what you see is real. Today, it's funny because I don't see everything how I used to.. good and bad. Now I just see "Good and Bad", lol. I don't delve into each. I guess I'm not as observant.. and then.. more observant. Maybe I just focus on different things. Dunno.

Anyways.. I have known satanists of various types. Wiccan and Pagan too. I can count them on two hands and no more, but they were very real and some just needed someone to talk to. Others found power in what they believed in and went with it. A few just hated the world and themselves. I still would call every one of them friend today if I met them face to face, though.

Thanks for the vid, also. I saw this one. This was a cool story

Jesuslives4uOn the other hand you can not prove your theory?

And exactly which part of my rebuttal of the other posters broad supposition do you consider "theory" ? My entire post was clearly speculative and a rebuttal of another posters unsubstantiated claims. I was simply showing them yen cold side if the pillow. Aren't you yet familiar with ATS motto of deny ignorance? Were I you I would probably levy a " guess" and decide that you were more comfortae promoting it but I would prefer to hear your own response as opposed to fabricating the one that sounds good to my ears as you've been doing to so many for 9 pages of replies now. Don't be so afraid to step out if your insular little box. The world won't bite your hand off for it.

And BTW who do you think put the idea inside of one of kids to vandalize a church?

Most kids who do vandalize........vandalize their school not their church.

Can YOU support that claim? That most kids vandalize schools ?

I don't know where the ideas originated nor could I without actually talking to the individuals involved. See, I try to base my world view on evidence not suppisition and presumption.

Let me guess.......(I'm guessing) you are the type who thinks all thoughts that come into your mind are ALL self-generated by you and you alone?

That there is no such thing as thoughts/ideas coming externally?

Thoughts are generated inside our mind and there are thoughts generated outside of our mind and PLACED there by an external supernatural force.

Good for you. Keep guessing away instead of actually reading my other replies or just asking before resorting to presumption.

Thank you for the good laugh at the massive cognitive disconnect from reality and logic you have been sharing throughout this thread. You continuously call others to task to support their statements while the entirety of your rebuttals is based solely on unsupported conjecture. It's the epitome of Christian arrogance and I'm sorry to all the other Christians who actually act like they've read Christ's words because I don't mean to lump them in with you. It reminds me a bit of Ted Haggard who preached against homosexuality while meeting male prostitutes at hotels for the very gay sex he allegedly was against while simultaneously smoking crystal meth. The more devout the individual the more off the tracks they seem to have run with the degree of hypocrisy they can live with. And that's across the board not just Christians but it is pretty mind blowing none the less.

reply to post by peter vlar


Well I guess I am happy that at least I made you laugh!

reply to post by Jesuslives4u


And in typical fashion you respond to nothing, supply no supporting facts to back up anything you've said thus far. That leaves me with two conclusions, that you're a troll or that this is little more than a propaganda piece to make you feel righteous about your spiritual nature. I just don't understand the point of making a thread let alone letting it drag on for nearly 10 pages when you're completely unwilling to have a rational dialogue that takes others views and beliefs into account.

The doctrines of devils and satan have been extrapolated from the scriptures what isn't there.If satan was a personal "being" Yahoshua would have addressed him as such yet he never does.The only time he does appear to is when he addresses Simon/Peter and if anyone believes Simon/Peter is Satan they are very,very confused and wrong.

The apostles never address a "being Satan" either.Neither do any of the patriarchs,Abraham,Isaac,Israel,Moses,David, etc etc.. nor any of the Prophets.The true believers of satan and devils are clearly out numbered by a multitude of people(the patriarchs, prophets,apostles and YAHOSHUA) that have much more credibility than they do.Here is what just a few scriptures have to say about it.

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his OWN LUST, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death.

The heart is deceitful above all things , and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

“And he said, That which comes out of the man, that defiles the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”

The two words used to extrapolate a doctrine of evil beings are devil and satan

satan means adversary.
devil is the translation of the greek word diabolos which root meaning is to throw or cast through a channel.

Neither devil or satan are proper names.

This is right inline with Paul saying :

"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of christ."

This casting down is NOT letting your imaginations(Belief System) rule over you and be cast through your mind because they are against(in enmity) of the "knowing" of the creator God.Paul is NEVER talking about a personal being"the devil or Satan".He is talking of men who are following the perverted imaginations of their religious carnal mind through their Belief System.

This is the same thing Yahoshua said to Peter only a few verse after Simon/Peter said Yahoshua was the Son of God the christ.

"Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from you, Lord: this shall not be unto you.But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get you behind me, satan: you are an offense unto me: for you consider not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

Yahoshua was obviously not saying Simon/Peter was "Satan" yet it could appear that he is.He is also not talking to a "being".That is in the imaginations of someones mind by an extrapolation to "read into" what isn't there.That is how "doctrines of devils" are formed..in the "imagination" of the religious carnal mind by false belief.

Later Yahoshua ties this confrontation with Simon together.

"And the Lord[Yahoshua] said, Simon, Simon, behold, satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat":

Did satan now "enter" Simon as he did Judas...yes....because satan is NOT a being.It is a state of mind a diabolo that is an adversary.Evil is not a being.That is a very convenient way to shift accountability...evil made me do it...not ME!!It is in mans "nature" to be religious.To have "faith" in their Belief System....Simon did.Right after he "heard" from the Father that Yahoshua IS the Son of God the christ his "religion" rose up in his mind in the doctrines of men". That's why Yahoshua said

you are an offense unto me: for you consider not the things that be of God, but those that be of men."

It was Simons religion.Not just Judaism but Simon's own Belief System through Judaism.Simon extrapolated what he BELIEVED was the right thing to do.He believed his heart was right but it wasn't.Simon is the epitome of a religious man(next to Paul).He considered HIS beliefs before the "knowing" of the creator God.He proved it again and again.He was constantly missing the point and blinded by his "religion".

At the transformation he wants to build a tabernacle for Moses and Elijah.He is witnessing something nobody has and reverts to his religion.In the garden Simon cuts off a guards ear.Did he really think he was going to take on Roman soldiers.The religious will believe he was just trying to protect Yahoshua..and that's the rub.He was with Yahoshua for 3 years and didn't know Yahoshua could take care of himself.Yahoshua didn't need bonehead Simon to "defend" him.Then the culmination of his doctrine of devils religious acts..denying Yahoshua 3 times.

That is what happens when the imaginations of religion are not cast OUT of your mind.It allows "your" religion to be cast through it.That is doctrines of devils....that act as an adversary...satan...it is the war between your ears(Armageddon).The Satanist and their ilk are acting in their own imaginations HOWEVER.The being they worship is not real it is an imagination that has been cast through the minds of the RELIGIOUS!They are the manifestors of the doctrines of devils....not the creator God.Fortunately the devils aren't real but they ARE to those that believe IN them because THEY manifest them.

This travesty has been perpetrated through centuries and centuries BY the religious.They believe it because their BIBLE says it is so.However the fact is there are NO doctrines of devils in the scriptures.The doctrines of devils are ALL created in the perverted imaginations of the religious carnal mind through THEIR Belief System that is in COMPLETE enmity to the creator God.

Fear is a state of mind.Perfected(matured) love cast out fear. The religious carnal mind is accountable for all it has done by manifesting fear.Anyone foolish enough to continue to perpetrate these doctrines is accountable for them...and there is NO forgiveness(freedom from bondage) of those that commit blasphemy of the Holy Spirit in this age or the next.

Krazysh0t

DeadSeraph

Krazysh0t

Jesuslives4u

network dude
reply to post by Jesuslives4u

 

Why do you believe there has to be a Satan?

Is God so mundane that he cannot have power without an adversary?

Why would a follower of Christ even offer a moments thought to evil?

If you devoted the energy you are giving to Satan, to Jesus, wouldn't that make Jesus stronger? At least in your heart?

Do you not believe in Satan or in an evil one with great power. One who has authority and power over mankind? I do.

My heart is full of Jesus , this does not mean I should not learn the other side? What I prefer to call "lost souls" how do you expect to convert one if you do not know who they are and what they feel?

The dark side does not scare me.

Hey guy, are you going to ignore my point that you are making up a completely false religion and assigning it to people who worship a religion with a similar name? Just because YOU believe that there is some all evil dude living in a hole somewhere wanting nothing more than to just be evil for evil's sake, doesn't mean that someone else who believes in some dude with the same name believes that.

I'm not even a Satanist, but I'd find that highly insulting to have my religion GROSSLY misrepresented by some ignorant person on the internet. Christians get mighty upset on these boards when atheists misrepresent or assign beliefs to them that they do not hold. How about fair play all around? Don't assume things about others' religions, especially if you don't know anything about it.

edit on 31-3-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

You have no idea what you're talking about. There isn't just 3 or 4 Satanic belief systems. There are theistic Satanists as well that believe in the traditional version of Satan and worship/venerate him, and believe in practicing black magic and look down on "good" because they believe that morality is weakness.

Produce the evidence that this is the case and widespread. I posted a wikipedia article and that was the number of different Satanists that were listed. You aren't arguing with me, you are arguing with a wikipedia article.

I shouldn't really need to, since you have already admitted (inadvertently) that you are in error:

Krazysh0t
reply to post by StallionDuck

 

Because the idea of worshiping the satan (adversary) as he is depicted in Christianity DOESN'T exist except in certain cults of boneheaded individuals.

You started off by claiming people with these beliefs don't exist, and then back tracked and claimed they only exist in certain cults of "boneheaded individuals" because their beliefs don't jive with yours. That is an ignorant statement in the first place, and is pretty much like saying anyone who isn't Catholic isn't a Christian, and are just a bunch of boneheaded cultists.

But since you asked and you feel wikipedia is such an authoritative source on the subject, I will start there:

wikipedia

Theistic Satanism or Spiritual Satanism, sometimes referred to as Devil Worship, is a form of Satanism with the primary belief that Satan is an actual deity or force to revere or worship.[1][2] Other characteristics of Theistic Satanism may include a belief in magic, which is manipulated through ritual.[3] Unlike LaVeyan Satanism founded by Anton LaVey in the 1960s, theistic Satanism is theistic[3] as opposed to atheistic, believing that Satan (Hebrew: הַשָׂטָן ha-Satan, ‘the accuser’) is a real being[3] rather than a symbol of individualism.

theisticsatanism.com

Who and what is Satan?

Even Christians grudgingly acknowledge Satan as the "God of this world" (yes! -- "God" -- see 2 Corinthians 4:4), "Prince of this world" (e.g. John 14:30), "Prince of the power of the air" (Ephesians 2:2), and a being who could "tempt" Jesus by offering him power in exchange for worship (Matthew 4:9), thereby implying that "all the kingdoms of the world" belonged to Satan.

Christians traditionally lump together "the Devil, the world, and the flesh." Christians traditionally regard Satan as the ruler of our "fallen nature" -- i.e. our here-and-now human nature, period.

We regard Satan as the God of this world, God of our flesh, God of our mind, and God of our own innermost Will, immanent in both the world and our own nature. We regard Satan as the most powerful of the gods concerned with human affairs, and therefore as a God whose Will is reflected in our own innermost Will.

The idea that the our own innermost Will would reflect the Will of the highest of the gods concerned with human affairs is, in our opinion, far more likely than the idea that the highest god would want to alienate us from our own nature, as the Christian god seems to want to do.

At the same time, we recognize that a totally "natural" life is an unattainable ideal. We humans are highly adaptable creatures, capable of adapting to many different environments, but never perfectly adapted to any of them. We see Satan as immanent not only in our own innermost Will, but also in the challenges that the world presents to us, and in the progress we make by facing those challenges.

Unlike some other theistic Satanists, we do not believe that Satan dictates a particular social order or a particular set of "laws" that are applicable to all times and places. Rather, we see Satan as opening people to new ideas in general, often radically different new ideas, consistent with Christianity's traditional view of Satan as favoring "heresies and errors of opposite characters" (as the online Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Devil puts it). We see Satan as challenging all dogma, reminding us of overlooked realities, and impelling us to do things in ways that are more "natural" in a given new set of circumstances.

Unlike some other theistic Satanists, we do not believe that Satan, the demons, and the other gods are extra-terrestrial humanoids who live on a distant planet and spend a lot of their time in telepathic contact with humans. (See Gods as advanced extraterrestrial humanoids? in Who and what is Satan? Various Satanist reinterpretations.) Traditionally, Satan is believed to be a spiritual being who lives right here on Earth and primarily in an underworld beneath the surface of the Earth. In the absence of any overwhelming reason to believe otherwise, we are inclined to accept these traditional ideas -- which may be taken either literally or symbolically, but in either case are incompatible with the ET idea.

BBC News

This is an older article, but you can easily use a search engine of your choice to discover many articles written about the resurgence of theistic satanism in Italy and other places in europe over the last decade, and a cursory look at the black metal scene in scandinavia (and the various satanic murders there) would also attest to these facts.

The two - a 19-year-old girl and a 16-year-old boy - were last seen alive leaving a pizzeria with other members of their heavy metal rock band, called the Beasts of Satan.

What happened next is still the subject of investigation.

But the magistrate leading the inquiry says they were murdered at the end of a drug-fuelled ritual which involved a level of cruelty he has never seen before.

So in summary, just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It does. If you want to define all the people that have these beliefs as "boneheaded cultists", be my guest, but the fact remains there are many of them, and their numbers are growing. Who exactly are you to claim that their religious beliefs are invalid? Are you an authority on satanism? Do satanists look to you to decide what constitutes authentic satanic beliefs and practices? Obviously not, since you have been proven wrong. It's my opinion that you are either willfully ignorant on the subject, or purposely spreading disinformation.

DeadSeraph



You started off by claiming people with these beliefs don't exist, and then back tracked and claimed they only exist in certain cults of "boneheaded individuals" because their beliefs don't jive with yours. That is an ignorant statement in the first place, and is pretty much like saying anyone who isn't Catholic isn't a Christian, and are just a bunch of boneheaded cultists.

I don't feel that your analogy of Catholics/Christians is really accurate. The number of Theistic Satanists world wide is rather small so comparing them to the largest and oldest Christian faith is a little backwards, in my opinion. A more apt analogy would be to say that if all Catholics are Christians then Theistic Satanists are the equivalent the Branch Davidians in terms of size and actual influence on the grand chess board. The branch Davidians were and some still are, certainly real, but not remotely representative of Christianity as a whole. They were a minor fringe cult with similarities to and drew from mainstream Christianity while taking a few dark twists and turns along the way.

This is an older article, but you can easily use a search engine of your choice to discover many articles written about the resurgence of theistic satanism in Italy and other places in europe over the last decade, and a cursory look at the black metal scene in scandinavia (and the various satanic murders there) would also attest to these facts.

Yes, let's talk about Norwegian Black Metal and how many of them were actually involved in Satanism and how many were poseurs who did it for shock value. Varg was a nationalist pagan not a Satanist, Euroymous was a complete fraud and poseur though totally screwed in the head as evidenced by him taking bits of skull and brain matter and took photos of the scene before calling the police using one picture for the cover of a bootleg album when the singer from Mayhem shot himself in the head. All the church burnings were a reaction from neo-fascist pagans and their hatred of what the church did to their ancestors by destroying their old religions and building churches on the sites of old pagan temples. None of it was actually related to Satanism. The confusion came about because of the imagery used almost entirely for shock value by the original black metal bands in Norway, most of whom knew each other from Helvette the record store owned by Mayhem guitarist Euronymous. PLease fell free to show me a murder linked to black metal musicians and Satanism because its certainly possible I've missed something. The beasts of Satan case isn't one I'm very familiar with but what I have read makes it seem as though the authorities tried very hard to link the murders to a wide ranging satanic conspiracy throughout Italy to thr point the Vatican got involved and offered 2 month long courses on diabolical possession and excorcism. there were only a couple of people actually involved in the murders though.I shouldn't really comment though without doing the proper research and I'm just going off the top of my head what I remember reading a few years back.

The two - a 19-year-old girl and a 16-year-old boy - were last seen alive leaving a pizzeria with other members of their heavy metal rock band, called the Beasts of Satan.

What happened next is still the subject of investigation.

But the magistrate leading the inquiry says they were murdered at the end of a drug-fuelled ritual which involved a level of cruelty he has never seen before.

So in summary, just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It does. If you want to define all the people that have these beliefs as "boneheaded cultists", be my guest, but the fact remains there are many of them, and their numbers are growing. Who exactly are you to claim that their religious beliefs are invalid? Are you an authority on satanism? Do satanists look to you to decide what constitutes authentic satanic beliefs and practices? Obviously not, since you have been proven wrong. It's my opinion that you are either willfully ignorant on the subject, or purposely spreading disinformation.

I would dispute that there are many of them. The numbers may be growing but they may not. There's nothing I could find to indicate one way or the other. The fear of the unknown is certainly growing as well as ignorance of what people don't undserstand or even want to try to understand when it's easier to just lump black metal or death metal musicians in with Theistic Satanists. It's oddly reminiscent of your complaint towards Krazyshot regarding his take on Satanism which personally, I didn't get the same impression as you. I was under the impression that he was simply alluding that the actual blood spilling midnight cemetery ritualizing goat head on a stick Satanists were pretty small in number and somewhat inconsequential uin regards to the different aspects of Satanism as a whole. It's more the media and authorities who get their rocks off pontificating about their evil ways and to lock your doors and check the children. Control is so much easier when people are afraid. Just look at the passing of the USA Patriot Act.

reply to post by peter vlar

peter vlar
I don't feel that your analogy of Catholics/Christians is really accurate. The number of Theistic Satanists world wide is rather small so comparing them to the largest and oldest Christian faith is a little backwards, in my opinion. A more apt analogy would be to say that if all Catholics are Christians then Theistic Satanists are the equivalent the Branch Davidians in terms of size and actual influence on the grand chess board.

Where did you get the numbers to compare the amount of Theistic Satanists vs Atheistic Satanists?

peter vlar
The branch Davidians were and some still are, certainly real, but not remotely representative of Christianity as a whole. They were a minor fringe cult with similarities to and drew from mainstream Christianity while taking a few dark twists and turns along the way.

Atheistic Satanism is not "mainstream Satanism", most people know Satanism as worship of The Devil, and Traditional Satanism where Satan is seen as an actual deity, is older than Atheistic Laveyan Satanism:

The Marquis de Sade (18th century, France), described by Iwan Bloch as being a fanatic Satanist.[22] His works graphically described blasphemy against the Catholic Church, such as an orgy resembling a Black Mass conducted by Pope Pius VI in the Vatican (in his novel Juliette).

In 1865, the anti-Vatican Italian poet Giosuè Carducci, published his poem Inno a Satana ("Hymn to Satan"), praising Satan as the god of reason and expressing religious hatred towards Christianity. - Link

reply to post by peter vlar




Yes, there are overtones of paganism running through the black metal scene. I won't dispute that fact, but it seems like you are attempting to make that the focal point of your rebuttal to my statements instead of acknowledging that there are infact theistic satanists who incorporate pagan elements into their belief structures there. The fact this is all in rebellion to Christian conversions in scandinavia and the eventual decline of germanic paganism doesn't really make the satanic elements go away.

As far as my comparisons to Catholicism, it is very valid if the claim is being made that laveyan satanism is the largest and most predominant sect within satanism. The levayists could be compared to the catholics in that sense. To disregard other views completely because they aren't part of the majority is tantamount to ignorance (nevermind claiming they don't even exist, and then back peddling on that point).

I would dispute that there are many of them. The numbers may be growing but they may not. There's nothing I could find to indicate one way or the other. The fear of the unknown is certainly growing as well as ignorance of what people don't undserstand or even want to try to understand when it's easier to just lump black metal or death metal musicians in with Theistic Satanists. It's oddly reminiscent of your complaint towards Krazyshot regarding his take on Satanism which personally, I didn't get the same impression as you. I was under the impression that he was simply alluding that the actual blood spilling midnight cemetery ritualizing goat head on a stick Satanists were pretty small in number and somewhat inconsequential uin regards to the different aspects of Satanism as a whole.

So now we are going to split hairs over whether or not the msm view of baby sacrificing covens constitutes theistic satanism or not? The issue of ritual abuse is a touchy one, and I will concede that there is evidence that people involved in the satanic panic drummed up a lot of false claims. Unfortunately, there is other evidence for different cases that would seem to suggest that it does actually take place.

At any rate, Krazyshot made claims that have been demonstrably proven false.