Beijing-bound MAS plane carrying 239 people missing as of 20 mins ago.

Yes I'm interested as well rockflier. What's your working thesis on this one. As being the person with experience in aviation in this thread. Please do share.

roadgravel

puntito

roadgravel
The passengers can be affected by lack of oxygen at 35K just as well as 45K, if that was the plan. So no need to ascend for that is what was meant.

Sorry there is a big difference between 35000 and 45000 feet, lower temperature and lower pressure.,
35000 feet is not lethal, not it is as high as mount Everest.

You might check those facts. Everest is 29K.

edit on 3/16/2014 by roadgravel because: (no reason given)

35K-29K=6K=2KM=1.2Miles higher than sustainable
more than 45K is say 48K-29K=19K=6KMabout4Miles higher. The plane went as high as it could, why?
To kill the passengers as much as they could, becasue they need the plane.

reply to post by rockflier


Where'd you get that number?
www.flugzeuginfo.net...

IQPREREQUISITE
Yes I'm interested as well rockflier. What's your working thesis on this one. As being the person with experience in aviation in this thread. Please do share.

Honestly, much gut feeling is that the pilots intentionally caused this. I believe it will be found underwater. Why they did it? Unknown. Gotta run

rockflier

roadgravel
So rockflier, have you seen anything in the news to change any of you thoughts based on experience. Do you think the climb and descent was due to a non experienced person manually handling the plane?

I honestly do not know. Both scenarios are possible. I still have trouble accepting that the plane went above its 43,100 service ceiling while relatively heavy. Just the old pilot in me

edit on Sun, 16 Mar 2014 13:57:13 -050020142014-03-16T13:57:13-05:00kfSunday57America/ChicagoSun, 16 Mar 2014 13:57:13 -0500 by rockflier because: (no reason given)

Sorry if I'm pushing it...but what would make you climb 45000 feet while your already cruising happily at 35000 feet?

In a normal day, all things being equal as they say. What would make you climb to 45000 feet, if you could think of any.

reply to post by puntito

To kill the passengers as much as they could, becasue they need the plane.

Yes. Dead is not good enough.
We want them really, really dead!

I agree about not climbing to 45K, and frankly what info are they going off that would give this? it would have to be an altimeter i would have thought, i dont think the engine reference info would provide that, so again pure speculation.

puntito

IQPREREQUISITE

puntito

IQPREREQUISITE


It's only know that I'm beginning to believe (not entirely though) that this is a hijacking. It sends chills down my spine. These guys are good. Military special ops good.

i tell you, they had guns, they shot the pilots and then shot a couple of
cabin windows to splinters in order to depressurize the cabin.
Then they took over the plane and took the oxigen masks of the
pilots and climbed to 45000 feet to kill of the passengers.
it's so simple.

I'm not so sure about the depressurization part. Coz I read somewhere that these high tech jumbo jets will automatically send signals if there are sudden fluctuations in pressure, altitude, etc. AND it's not easy to climb to 45000 feet (2000 feet beyonD the limit of the 777) as one poster pointed out.

Plus, even in third world countries, it would be hard to get a gun onboard, much less guns without alerting anyone and Malaysia is not a third world country.

For that scenario to work out you need a rogue crew member or members. And 'til now they remain innocent until new evidence comes up to prove them otherwise.

plane climbed above 45000 feet after turned off the transponders. This is one of the few confirmed facts.
Why would the pilot climb to over 45000 feet?
Just one reason I can think off, maybe they turned off the communications before cracking the windows with somthing else. But for me it is a fact they cracked the windows and when they went back to 19000 feet they just put a corpse in every window to get the pressure back.
The corpses will be tight sucked seal the windows.

edit on 16-3-2014 by puntito because: (no reason given)

Seriously, what are you smoking!? Bodies the ideal way to seal smashed windows?

The windows wouldn't have to be cracked, either the 'hijackers', (and personally I'm not convinced there are any!) just wait till the passengers emergency air runs out ( I believe around 15 mins?) , or tamper with the oxygen in the passenger area.

Phage
reply to post by puntito

 

To kill the passengers as much as they could, becasue they need the plane.

Yes. Dead is not good enough.
We want them really, really dead!

edit on 3/16/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Wow you guys...

IQPREREQUISITE


Sorry if I'm pushing it...but what would make you climb 45000 feet while your already cruising happily at 35000 feet?

In a normal day, all things being equal as they say. What would make you climb to 45000 feet, if you could think of any.

Yes I wondered that and the only reason I could find is to lower
the temp even more and to lower the pressure even more just to well sorry kill.

Why do I think that, because after this 45000 feet they screamed to 19000 feet, because I think the hijackers could not stand
the low temp any more and needed to stuff something in the windows to regain pressure and temperature.

Regardless if this plane is MH370 or not, I followed the compass heading of 320 on Google Earth looking for suitable airport landing sites.

As the crow flies it's 3204 miles from Kuala Lumpur to Camp Marmal at Mazari Sharif in Afghanistan. 2 runways there, 9800' and 10,300'. Big ISAF (NATO) air base there.

en.wikipedia.org...
From Camp Marmal to Chernobyl in Ukraine is 2074 miles...

puntito

IQPREREQUISITE


Sorry if I'm pushing it...but what would make you climb 45000 feet while your already cruising happily at 35000 feet?

In a normal day, all things being equal as they say. What would make you climb to 45000 feet, if you could think of any.

Yes I wondered that and the only reason I could find is to lower
the temp even more and to lower the pressure even more just to well sorry kill.

Why do I think that, because after this 45000 feet they screamed to 19000 feet, because I think the hijackers could not stand
the low temp any more and needed to stuff something in the windows to regain pressure and temperature.

Your theory was well noted I suppose but my question pertained in a normal scenario, not a hijacking. I aim to evaluate both sides of the coin you see. One side with hijacking, the other one without.

If on a normal day, what would make a pilot climb 45k feet if the plane was already cruising at 35k feet.

DrHammondStoat

puntito

IQPREREQUISITE

puntito

IQPREREQUISITE


It's only know that I'm beginning to believe (not entirely though) that this is a hijacking. It sends chills down my spine. These guys are good. Military special ops good.

i tell you, they had guns, they shot the pilots and then shot a couple of
cabin windows to splinters in order to depressurize the cabin.
Then they took over the plane and took the oxigen masks of the
pilots and climbed to 45000 feet to kill of the passengers.
it's so simple.

I'm not so sure about the depressurization part. Coz I read somewhere that these high tech jumbo jets will automatically send signals if there are sudden fluctuations in pressure, altitude, etc. AND it's not easy to climb to 45000 feet (2000 feet beyonD the limit of the 777) as one poster pointed out.

Plus, even in third world countries, it would be hard to get a gun onboard, much less guns without alerting anyone and Malaysia is not a third world country.

For that scenario to work out you need a rogue crew member or members. And 'til now they remain innocent until new evidence comes up to prove them otherwise.

plane climbed above 45000 feet after turned off the transponders. This is one of the few confirmed facts.
Why would the pilot climb to over 45000 feet?
Just one reason I can think off, maybe they turned off the communications before cracking the windows with somthing else. But for me it is a fact they cracked the windows and when they went back to 19000 feet they just put a corpse in every window to get the pressure back.
The corpses will be tight sucked seal the windows.

edit on 16-3-2014 by puntito because: (no reason given)

Seriously, what are you smoking!? Bodies the ideal way to seal smashed windows?

The windows wouldn't have to be cracked, either the 'hijackers', (and personally I'm not convinced there are any!) just wait till the passengers emergency air runs out ( I believe around 15 mins?) , or tamper with the oxygen in the passenger area.

Sorry to push, and just being practical. Yes bodies will be the ideal things available after this event.
They are flexible and will seal perfectly unless anything in that plane i can think of.
And just try to explain a motive for thsi flying at over 45000 feet.

reply to post by puntito


I really doubt bodies are going to make a good seal on the windows. Maybe we should name this the 'mooning theory'.

IQPREREQUISITE

puntito

IQPREREQUISITE


Sorry if I'm pushing it...but what would make you climb 45000 feet while your already cruising happily at 35000 feet?

In a normal day, all things being equal as they say. What would make you climb to 45000 feet, if you could think of any.

Yes I wondered that and the only reason I could find is to lower
the temp even more and to lower the pressure even more just to well sorry kill.

Why do I think that, because after this 45000 feet they screamed to 19000 feet, because I think the hijackers could not stand
the low temp any more and needed to stuff something in the windows to regain pressure and temperature.

Your theory was well noted I suppose but my question pertained in a normal scenario, not a hijacking. I aim to evaluate both sides of the coin you see. One side with hijacking, the other one without.

If on a normal day, what would make a pilot climb 45k feet if the plane was already cruising at 35k feet.

Sorry flying at 45000 feet is illegal for passenger plane.

IQPREREQUISITE

puntito

IQPREREQUISITE


Sorry if I'm pushing it...but what would make you climb 45000 feet while your already cruising happily at 35000 feet?

In a normal day, all things being equal as they say. What would make you climb to 45000 feet, if you could think of any.

Yes I wondered that and the only reason I could find is to lower
the temp even more and to lower the pressure even more just to well sorry kill.

Why do I think that, because after this 45000 feet they screamed to 19000 feet, because I think the hijackers could not stand
the low temp any more and needed to stuff something in the windows to regain pressure and temperature.

Your theory was well noted I suppose but my question pertained in a normal scenario, not a hijacking. I aim to evaluate both sides of the coin you see. One side with hijacking, the other one without.

If on a normal day, what would make a pilot climb 45k feet if the plane was already cruising at 35k feet.

Sorry flying at 45000 feet is illegal for passenger plane.

reply to post by Phage


No worries, leave the speculations to me I'm good at that. You just debunk it as per usual.

1. Plane was stolen, not hijacked.
2. Everyone knows the cavalry will never rest, including the person(s) involved.
3. What's the point of stealing an 777 knowing the whole world is searching and will never stop?
4. Because you want the whole world searching
5. Why do you want the whole world searching?
6. Because you want the world to think "hijack" when it was really "stolen"
7. What's the difference "hijacking"/"stolen" ?
7.1 Hijacking - method preferred by terrorists - unsophisticated
7.2 Stolen - method used by criminal masterminds - highly sophisticated (arguably, terrorists can be considered criminal masterminds but relatively speaking not sophisticated enough for this operation)
8. Why not make it look like a crash by placing a distress call?
8.1 Answer: see 6
8.2 Why not say airline was hijacked?
8.2.1 Answer: to allow for a getaway time and not be shot down
9. Why make the world believe hijacking?
9.1 Answer: Red Herring
9.2 Leads to possible suspects - smoke and mirrors
9.3 Allows criminal mastermind time to continue w/mission undetected
10. Criminal mastermind knows world believes 777 has landed somewhere and doesn't care, why?
10.1 A) Because confidence level is high the plane will never be found (camouflage/radar cloaking?)
B) Plane will never fly again
11. What's the purpose of stealing a 777?
11.1 A) to use it for cargo
B) to use it as a weapon
C) Both A, B

Conclusion:
Criminal mastermind(s) steal a plane and disguise the crime as a hijacking perpetrated by any of the world's leading terrorists thereby allowing time to retrofit the plane to use as a weapon while the whole world looks the other way. Whilst one may argue that the criminal element involved is in-fact "terrorism", however, one can't dispute that all intelligence thus far has been conducted from the highest levels of governments and military. A "job" like this would encompass a large technological team with the confidence of never being detected. Only a mastermind with inside information and allies within would be able to pull this off.

That's my theory and I'm sticking with it.

roadgravel
reply to post by puntito

 

I really doubt bodies are going to make a good seal on the windows. Maybe we should name this the 'mooning theory'.

With the pressure outside 100 times lower than inside, a human body will seal off the windows. It will be sucked against
it and fill the little holes up perfectly. Sorry just being practical

I'm wondering with the delay we had in hearing about data from satellites etc that the PTB would have had time to deliberately falsify the satellite data on purpose to lead everyone on a wild goose chase, especially the 45000 feet altitude data.
The only other reason I can think of is that the military don't know the whereabouts of the plane and are trying to flush out the people involved by putting every possible scenario on the table and letting on they are getting closer.

reply to post by puntito

With the pressure outside 100 times lower than inside, a human body will seal off the windows. It will be sucked against it and fill the little holes up perfectly. Sorry just being practical

With the cabin depressurized (to kill the passengers, right?) there is no sucking, the pressure is the same inside as outside.