Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

reply to post by Wookiep


mark my words Ukraine will fire the first shots

I don't know how credible my friend is , He is in Romania and have friends in Ukraine , they tell around 60-70% of the Ukrainian military wants to join Russia . And Russia's next move will be to cause decent and division within the Ukrainian military ..

TechniXcality
reply to post by Wookiep

 

mark my words Ukraine will fire the first shots

edit on 19-3-2014 by TechniXcality because: (no reason given)

First shots were already fired by Russian supporters yesterday. Ukraine held their posture and did not return fire which was good, considering there would have been a heck of allot more deaths than the 1 Ukrainian soldier killed yesterday.

maddy21
I don't know how credible my friend is , He is in Romania and have friends in Ukraine , they tell around 60-70% of the Ukrainian military wants to join Russia . And Russia's next move will be to cause decent and division within the Ukrainian military ..

I could see a percentage, maybe. But most of the military bases are located in Western Ukraine (for good reason) so I'd be more inclined to think that the Majority of troops are Ukrainian which have an absolute distaste for Russian. Many had family directly impacted by Holodomor, hence why they wanted nothing to do with Russia which eventually provoked the removal of the previous president.

The only conclusion I've been able to come to so far is that I'm really glad I don't have to decide how the USA or NATO should react strategically or tactically. I'm not as concerned with who is right or who is wrong as I am with where this is heading from a global perspective.

Do too little (or nothing) and it's interpreted as weak and the world probably inches slowly toward Russia rebuilding the old Soviet empire and many other current or potential enemies being emboldened. Do too much and it could be the beginning of WW3 (assuming the beginning didn't start happening a while back but just isn't obvious yet). I'm not sure there is even a Goldilocks zone in the middle.

Although I think the Cuban missile crisis was a more dangerous situation for the world, the rhetoric and actions occurring now potentially make this one of the most dangerous confrontations between super powers since then.

ProfessorT

16:35: "The government will take adequate steps unless all provocations against Ukrainian servicemen end, and Admiral Hayduk and other hostages - both military and civilian - are freed by 21:00 (19:00 GMT)," the Ukrainian president has warned.

16:33: BBC Monitoring reports: Ukraine's Interim President, Olexander Turchynov, has given the authorities in Crimea three hours to release "all hostages", including Ukrainian navy chief Serhiy Hayduk, Unian news agency reports.

BBC News

It looks like Ukraine is basically declaring war on Russia as Russia will not bow to their demands. This is big news. I can't see Russia stopping their behaviour or releasing those soldiers and journalists who have been kidnapped. The report below has been translated from Unian.

Acting President of Ukraine, Verkhovna Rada Chairman Oleksandr Turchynov gave the self-proclaimed authorities of Crimea three hours to release all the hostages and an end to provocations on the peninsula. He put the Crimean separatists an ultimatumAs reported by the UNIAN's Press Secretary, Chairman of the Verkhovna Rada, according to Turchynov, today during the regular provocation of the armed forces of the Russian Federation was taken hostage, the Commander of the Ukrainian Navy Rear Admiral Sergey Haiduk."This is not the first illegal capture of military and civilians in Crimea," he said and added that the working group headed by first Vice Prime Minister Vitaly Yarema and acting Defense Minister Igor Tenûhom, which flew to the Crimea in order to solve all the problems, the self-proclaimed power of autonomy failed to land the plane. "The Russian military has refused to hold talks on ending the provocations and the release of the hostages, citing armed units and the decision of the self-proclaimed Government of Crimea," said Turchinov. In addition, he said that the Russian military and the self-proclaimed Government of Crimea have already warned: "if to 21.00 will not be halted all provocations against the Ukrainian troops and Admiral Gaiduk and all the other hostages, both military and civilian, will not be released, the Government adequate measures would be taken. "Including technical and technological problems," explained Turchinov.

Unian

edit on 19-3-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

Actually its almost like there threatening to shut the lights off like they do in a hostage situation.

ikonoklast
The only conclusion I've been able to come to so far is that I'm really glad I don't have to decide how the USA or NATO should react strategically or tactically. I'm not as concerned with who is right or who is wrong as I am with where this is heading from a global perspective.

Do too little (or nothing) and it's interpreted as weak and the world probably inches slowly toward Russia rebuilding the old Soviet empire and many other current or potential enemies being emboldened. Do too much and it could be the beginning of WW3 (assuming the beginning didn't start happening a while back but just isn't obvious yet). I'm not sure there is even a Goldilocks zone in the middle.

Although I think the Cuban missile crisis was a more dangerous situation for the world, the rhetoric and actions occurring now potentially make this one of the most dangerous confrontations between super powers since then.

I agree. This is the most dangerous confrontation the world has seen since that defining moment some years ago. Economies are so tied together that most are forced to send nasty memo's versus real action. This gives nations like Russia more fodder to continue down the path of rebuilding their stature.

I'm also having difficulty with the news claiming that the Russian economy is struggling. They are one of the few large economies with a budget surplus so they are cash rich versus most Western nations the are running massive budget deficits (less Germany).

They could crash the economy and come out smelling like roses as most of the allied nations would crumble under their own weight of debt while they move in and remove US influence nation by nation.

This is a tipping point and Putin knows it. That's also why I think Merkel has not verbally been as vocal as other nations. Sounding tough but knowing that if the US loses the economic World War, then Germany finally has the Europe over the preverbial barrel.

We are at scary times right now!!

Bearack

TechniXcality
reply to post by Wookiep

 

mark my words Ukraine will fire the first shots

edit on 19-3-2014 by TechniXcality because: (no reason given)

First shots were already fired by Russian supporters yesterday. Ukraine held their posture and did not return fire which was good, considering there would have been a heck of allot more deaths than the 1 Ukrainian soldier killed yesterday.

actually it time for Ukraine to fight back now i think there restraint is bordering on pathetic at this point you have russians taking your land and now killing your soldiers. Not to mention capturing other soldiers and still you sit there. At some point you have to be willing to fight for yourself and your rights. See Russia cant afford to turn this into a full scale conflict it wont even go over well in Russia and he knows it.

dragonridr

Bearack

TechniXcality
reply to post by Wookiep

 

mark my words Ukraine will fire the first shots

edit on 19-3-2014 by TechniXcality because: (no reason given)

First shots were already fired by Russian supporters yesterday. Ukraine held their posture and did not return fire which was good, considering there would have been a heck of allot more deaths than the 1 Ukrainian soldier killed yesterday.

actually it time for Ukraine to fight back now i think there restraint is bordering on pathetic at this point you have russians taking your land and now killing your soldiers. Not to mention capturing other soldiers and still you sit there. At some point you have to be willing to fight for yourself and your rights. See Russia cant afford to turn this into a full scale conflict it wont even go over well in Russia and he knows it.

I think they are moving wisely. The previous administration decimated the military so the new administration is peacemealing a decent defense force together to at least prevent Russia from driving to far into the nation before the international community reacts. Attacking now would be suicide and force Eastern and Southern Ukraine under the Russian flag. They need to shore up their defenses and continue to make Russia look like the aggressor. If Russia rolls over their defenses, it'll make the international community look like garbage if they do not send support for a defenseless nation.

Are u sure the international community will send support even in that case ? The way they have pretty much abandoned Ukraine shows they will always think of themselves first and if theirs even a little possibility of backlash they will stay mum. In fact i suppose they will impose 'MORE SANCTIONS' Lol

Foxtrot7x
Are u sure the international community will send support even in that case ? The way they have pretty much abandoned Ukraine shows they will always think of themselves first and if theirs even a little possibility of backlash they will stay mum. In fact i suppose they will impose 'MORE SANCTIONS' Lol

They didn't for Georgia, but I also think Ukraine is a much bigger beast economically for the EU and is part of their plans for energy independence from Russia.

My speculation is that it will be a nation like Turkey that actually doe's something initially that then pulls the rest of Europe into supporting Ukraine.

From BBCNews.com

18:30: There are reports of a stand-off at an anti-missile base near the Crimean city of Yevpatoria. The compound is apparently surrounded by Russian forces, including snipers, demanding the surrender of Ukrainian soldiers who have so far refused to give themselves up.

You might be correct there. Probably turkey or Poland.

Ukraine is preparing a military exercise with the US and Great Britain, Ukrainian security chief Andriy Parubiy has said.

www.bbc.co.uk...

deviant300

Ukraine is preparing a military exercise with the US and Great Britain, Ukrainian security chief Andriy Parubiy has said.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Ukraines military, with not even a few days training under their belt, that will end well, friendly fire anybody?

deviant300

Ukraine is preparing a military exercise with the US and Great Britain, Ukrainian security chief Andriy Parubiy has said.

www.bbc.co.uk...

What I find amusing is.......
Cameron, Obama, Kerry and Hague all think the military are their peraonal armies.

They aren't.
I have in no way shape or form taken a poll or vote regarding our military to be involved.
The question I ask is
Have you?

If you are scratching your heads then you fail to understand the question.

19:24: The deadline given by Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov for the release of the detained navy chief, Serhiy Hayduk, has now passed.

Whats going to happen now?

deviant300

19:24: The deadline given by Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov for the release of the detained navy chief, Serhiy Hayduk, has now passed.

Whats going to happen now?

The volume of dramatic posts on conspiracy forums will be increased to put more pressure on Putin.

bubab

deviant300

Ukraine is preparing a military exercise with the US and Great Britain, Ukrainian security chief Andriy Parubiy has said.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Ukraines military, with not even a few days training under their belt, that will end well, friendly fire anybody?

Actually, some of Ukraine's forces are considered elite in that they have more combat experience than Russian forces in that they sent forces to Afghanistan and Iraq.

It's interesting to see the reports that have developed in the last 3-4 hours. It actually looks like Ukraine aren't prepared to sit back anymore although they have all but given up Crimea now with the withdrawal of its army from the region. I think the most significant report is in relation to Russia changing their stance on Iran because that just goes to show that they weren't serious in the first place about disarming Iran. In essence, they've taken NATO for fools not only with Iran but now with Ukraine.