Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

schmae
reply to post by andy1972

 

CNN is putting the SIN in sensationalizing today !
I like to keep it on the tv when news is coming in so I can read the news and then see their slant on it as it happens.
It's actually enlightening. That way you understand why 'everyone else' feels the way they do if they are only getting
the CNN angle

The propaganda machine went into overdrive with this one....

But as with Al Qaeda, the press are under a moral (cough) obligation to portait the Russians as the aggresors and the danger to world peace harmony and safety, all because they don't eat SNICKERS..

And i get the feeling your going to hear more and more of it...and if you do, worry.

All this from the same media that brought you (repeatedly until you believed it ) -

The weapons of mass destruction lie.
The gulf of Tonkin lie.
The lone gunman lie.
Bin Laden was responsable for 9/11 lie.
And any other lie the government has seen fit to use to further it's political aganda....

reply to post by schmae


There seem to be a lot of conflicting versions of this story already so I thought I would make a transcript of this actual interview with Robert Serry, the UN envoy, made while he was still in the coffee shop. It has been reported in other news media that Serry was at a Ukrainian military base in Crimea where he was meeting with the commander, but that was not discussed in this video. The video starts from him trying to leave the base (or wherever he was at before going to the coffee shop).

Transcript from the video of Serry himself (still in the coffee shop at the time) recounting what occurred:

"I left, my car was blocked, and somebody who did not identify himself was telling me that he had orders to bring me immediately to the airport. I refused. I sat in the car. There was kind of a stand-off. At some point these people actually took the driver out, put another driver in, tried to put other people in the car. I managed to get outside the car, and I walked, and I found this cafe. And since then I'm here." - Robert Serry

I typed up the transcript above from the short video with Robert Serry that was taken by James Mates of ITV while they were both still blocked/detained in the coffee shop together. That's the complete transcript of the whole video clip. Since it's not a YouTube video, I do not know how to post the video here, but you can view this video on ITV and hear it from Serry himself here:

SOURCE: James Mates ITV

I have no way of knowing if Serry is telling the truth, but I figure this is far more likely to be accurate than a second, third, or fourth hand account from other news media.

NATO suspends work with Russia on Syria chemical weapons

NATO has announced a full review of its cooperation with Russia try to pressure Moscow into backing down on Ukraine and said it would suspend planning for a joint mission linked to Syrian chemical weapons.

NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said alliance officials would no longer hold staff-level meetings with their Russian counterparts, while stepping up engagement with Ukraine's civilian and military leadership.

"We have also decided that no staff-level civilian or military meetings with Russia will take place for now," Rasmussen told reporters after a meeting between NATO and Russian officials in Brussels.

NATO has been in talks with Russia on a possible joint mission to protect a US ship that will destroy Syria's deadliest chemical weapons. [Reuters]

Aljazeera

I don't believe Assad was the one using chems after all we saw here on ATS when that went down.. but if we are to believe that lie or even if the U.S. wants to believe that lie, then how is suspending working with Russia on Syrian chems hurting Russia at all? All this does is cause more tension in that region of the world. Stupid, IMO.

reply to post by Justmea

So Putin hasn't actually said it's war but Ukraine is assuming it is?

Putin see's it as a defensive strategy to safe-guard Russia's interests. The part about Russian-native/Russian-speaking people is just BS to most people standards. But there are some genuine interests being protected.

On his side, Putin doesn't see this as any different from the US or NATO securing foreign bases, like in Afghanistan or Iraq. Or when the US send it's mighty aircraft carriers to make a point about their regional interests.

However, Ukraine considers this as an incursion and occupation of their sovereign territory, which - by most people's definition even - is an act of war, which is still different than a declaration of war.

Also has the army actually fired at the Law abiding Ukrainians yet?

No. The only shots fired were warning shots fired at an Ukrainian unit who refused to surrender and approached an unit to negotiate.

Still, that unit that the Ukrainians approached, wasn't russian (as in, using the flag on their shoulders).

Not all the Ukrainians want to be in the EU as the news said. Which is confirmed by minimum of 40% of the population i do believe.

Yes and no.

Like any other country on Earth, not every part of the population is in tune on what they want to do with their future.

From my understanding, there is a part of Ukraine that wants and wishes to become part of the EU and NATO. They seek more pro-western and liberal views of society and want a closer way of life to what you have in the West and Europe in general.

However, there is also a portion of the population who is aware of what is going on in Europe, with the austerity measures towards countries who do not fullfill their debt objectives. Considering how some of those countries are living (worst case being Greece, best being Portugal) because of austerity measures - measures which Ukraine would also have to obey since they wanted to join EU - some Ukrainians don't want anything to do with EU and rather accept the almost gifted support from Russia.

That is the division. However, neither group considers an occupation by Russia as a good thing. Whatever the course, it seems the whole population wants to be on their own, not on their own while commanded by the Russian Federation.

Russia yes it is invading Ukraine from a protective point of view. And Putin probably is out to get Crimea yet at the same time he is protecting his people?

Crimea is a separate issue on it's own, because there is the possibility of a referendum and they could become something like Monaco, Hong Kong (until being handed back to China) or even Gibraltar. An isolated state.

There are Russian infrastructures and bases there, along with economic installations like gas line and other pipelines, vital for Russia's economic interests.

However, those didn't come into direct danger, and what is making people confused is that Russia says they are just protecting their own stuff, while that protection isn't being made by them-selves, but by these very dubious "self-defense groups", who are equipped, act and talk like russian soldiers.

Many people, however, make a slight confusion between those self-defense groups who don't even wear a flag, to actual Russian troops who left their base and took defensive positions near the harbors and russian bases.

Yes, this whole mess is very confusing, and that confusion is being played by both sides.

Note the phrase -

"I left, my car was blocked, and somebody who did not identify himself was telling me that he had orders to bring me immediately to the airport."

TO THE AIRPORT...

They knew who he was, what he was, why he was there and for his own safety they tried to get him the hell out because they couldn't guarantee his safety on the ground.

I still think they were KGB or FSB, and they tried to get him out to avoid the danger.

Ukraine: No Agreements Reached In Crisis Talks

Discussions between Russia and the West end in stalemate, as Sergei Lavrov leaves without meeting his Ukrainian counterpart.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov struck the conciliatory tone before face-to-face talks with US Secretary of State John Kerry for the first time since the stalemate began.

Mr Kerry urged Mr Lavrov to engage in direct talks with Ukraine as the pair met briefly before entering further discussions with officials from France, Germany and British Foreign Secretary William Hague.

news.sky.com...

reply to post by andy1972


Nice catch!

andy1972
Note the phrase -

"I left, my car was blocked, and somebody who did not identify himself was telling me that he had orders to bring me immediately to the airport."

TO THE AIRPORT...

They knew who he was, what he was, why he was there and for his own safety the tried to get him the hell out because they couldn't guarantee his safety on the ground.

I still think the were KGB or FSB, and they tried to get him out to avoid the danger.

It's quite possible they were KGB, FSB, or something like that, trying to get him out for his own safety and because Russia or the "self-defense forces" didn't want him there. The fact that they did know so much and claimed to have orders seems to make that likely.

But if you were Serry in that situation, would you have gone willingly with unidentified armed men when "these people actually took the driver out, put another driver in, tried to put other people in the car?" I'm only surprised that they let him walk to a coffee shop.

20:01: More on the US boosting its defence co-operation in central Europe (see 16:24): The US will send six F-15 fighters to the Baltic for Nato policing operations, adding to the four already there, Reuters reports.
www.bbc.com...

This has to be one of the most civil invasions/occupations/revolutions in history so far (not including the sniper stuff in the previous revolution in Ukraine recently).

Of course, from a geopolitical perspective this is a very serious war between east and west regardless of whether another shot is fired.

ikonoklast

andy1972
Note the phrase -

"I left, my car was blocked, and somebody who did not identify himself was telling me that he had orders to bring me immediately to the airport."

TO THE AIRPORT...

They knew who he was, what he was, why he was there and for his own safety the tried to get him the hell out because they couldn't guarantee his safety on the ground.

I still think the were KGB or FSB, and they tried to get him out to avoid the danger.

It's quite possible they were KGB, FSB, or something like that, trying to get him out for his own safety and because Russia or the "self-defense forces" didn't want him there. The fact that they did know so much and claimed to have orders seems to make that likely.

But if you were Serry in that situation, would you have gone willingly with unidentified armed men when "these people actually took the driver out, put another driver in, tried to put other people in the car?" I'm only surprised that they let him walk to a coffee shop.

A three or four man protection squad maybe..
Maybe for fear of the "snipers" that are in country..
A dead UN inspector wouldn't look good on Russias score card..

reply to post by Wookiep


It's not stupid, it makes perfect sense for their agenda. The whole reason the chemical weapons thing was likely ever brought up (since there is very little evidence to even support they were used or who used them) was to justify U.S. military action in the region. That's how the U.S. takes things it wants.....it destabilizes a region and makes it appear as though outside assistance is needed from the U.S. and then we go in to take control of that particular region.

What Russia effectively did was cock block the U.S. by eliminating their reason for invasion. So by ceasing these talks which could resolve the situation peacefully they can effectively destabilize the region again; increasing the odds that the U.S. will need to "intervene". It's wrong, and evil but it makes sense strategically for what they are trying to accomplish.

reply to post by GrimReaper86


Don't get me wrong, if what you say is true then it is a clever plan to fit their agenda if everything happening lately is all staged to fit it. However, WWIII is stupid for obvious reasons..

European Union leaders holding a crisis meeting on Ukraine could impose sanctions on Russia if there has been no "de-escalation" by then, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said.

US to Ban Visas, Seize Assets of top Russian Linked to Crimean Crisis

A top Russian lawmaker has revealed he is working on a bill that would freeze the assets of European and American companies operating in Russia in reply to Western economic sanctions.

who is going to loose this one ? How many countries will really comply to these sanctions ?
Maybe its time to say goodbye to the Dollar

reply to post by andy1972


So far we can only speculate regarding the identity of the people who, according to Serry's own claims at least, attempted to hijack him and the car he was in against his will. The only thing we can know with much certainty is that if they had wanted to kill him then and there they could have. But we will never know what would have happened if he had gone with them. Maybe he would have arrived at the airport, maybe he wouldn't.

I don't think I would have gone with them. And I can tell you that police (at least in the USA) advise people to never go with an abductor in a car. You are statistically less likely to be killed resisting an abduction and trying to escape than if you get in a car with an abductor. I suppose the exception would be if you were already out in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses.

Wookiep
reply to post by GrimReaper86

 

Don't get me wrong, if what you say is true then it is a clever plan to fit their agenda if everything happening lately is all staged to fit it. However, WWIII is stupid for obvious reasons..

This reminds me of Agenda 21 ..... Global economic reset ... Like the whole things is being played out by both sides ...

ikonoklast
reply to post by andy1972

 

So far we can only speculate regarding the identity of the people who, according to Serry's own claims at least, attempted to hijack him and the car he was in against his will. The only thing we can know with much certainty is that if they had wanted to kill him then and there they could have. But we will never know what would have happened if he had gone with them. Maybe he would have arrived at the airport, maybe he wouldn't.

I don't think I would have gone with them. And I can tell you that police (at least in the USA) advise people to never go with an abductor in a car. You are statistically less likely to be killed resisting an abduction and trying to escape than if you get in a car with an abductor. I suppose the exception would be if you were already out in the middle of nowhere with no witnesses.

You have to realize the press was following him around and was there had he let them drive him away with no press you dont know what would have happened. He did the right thing took some press with him told them to keep filming and sat in the diner his instincts were spot on as they say. Just watched the news conference from Kerry he lied saying he was not trying to get Ukraine and Russia together. I guess this is to save face when Russia walked out the meeting.

andy1972
Note the phrase -

"I left, my car was blocked, and somebody who did not identify himself was telling me that he had orders to bring me immediately to the airport."

TO THE AIRPORT...

They knew who he was, what he was, why he was there and for his own safety they tried to get him the hell out because they couldn't guarantee his safety on the ground.

I still think they were KGB or FSB, and they tried to get him out to avoid the danger.

edit on PM3Wed20141972 by andy1972 because: (no reason given)

Generally speaking, when FSB men conveniently appear and with orders to take you somewhere, it doesn't do you much good to say "no thanks" and hide out in a coffee shop.

You go with them; often to somewhere dark with boots kicking you in the face.

This is new?

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 3m
$$ Reports from Crimea that Russian forces leave besieged Ukraine bases

Gregor Peter ‏@L0gg0l 4m
RUSSIAN TROOPS LEAVE UKRAINE BASES IN BELBEK AND PEREVALNE (via @anshelpfeffer)

21:10: Ms Tymoshenko, who was released from prison two weeks ago, said the US and UK must use "the most powerful tools" to engage directly with Russia and ensure that Russian troops leave the Crimean peninsula.

21:07: Ukraine's former Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko has urged the West to ramp up the pressure on Russia to force it to pull out its troops from Crimea, in an interview with Associated Press.

So this will work out well...