**ALL MEMBERS** We have a new Video Partner, Don't Tread On Media

reply to post by AboveBoard


WOW! Thank you so much for the words of encouragement.

I hope I don't let you down

Josh L

reply to post by Notheycant


I share your views on the police state and the loss of liberty. My hero's include Jefferson,Adams,King. The issues facing us today are scary. This is the only word the really sums it up in my mind. I am scared. I want my children to be free to enjoy life.




Comedy does have it's place and helps draw in new minds. But with that comes risk. I believe it is a double edged sword the has to be handle with great care.




Best of luck to you and I honestly hope it is great. We need more reporters who love liberty.

...I apologized (past tense) in full sincerity for my post, although I'm now somewhat quite offended and disappointed...

I really don't appreciate being talked to demeaningly.
Input was requested on said topic and input was given...

reply to post by Springer


I can understand totally that you have a mission, or a vision, for ATS, and that you've all put in a vast amount of hard work over the last decade and more. It should be a sign to you that we care very much about ATS that we get grumpy and passionate about new ideas. I hadn't though of ATS as a female entity however. Very few of us are stupid here...lots of smart people, who have VERY strong opinions, and if you put an idea out that you're actually asking for input on, then it's reasonable to expect some criticism. I will agree that some perhaps has been too harsh, but if you offered up a video as an example of Josh's work for us to see, and if we don't like it, or don't think it's up to ATS's high standards, then you can be certain we won't be shy about telling you. There is nothing wrong with that process. If there had been no vid in the first post, there probably wouldn't have been as much flack, but it made us curious, and we went looking for more.

We also made some suggestions, which were requested actually, but not even an acknowledgement has been offered, which is a little rude, especially when we've made it so clear that we care about this issue. I'm not bothered a stuff if Josh takes me up on what I put forward, and my feelings aren't hurt, but we made an effort. It would be just about impossible to pick a subject that *doesn't* have a thread about it somewhere on ATS...if he wants interest and feedback on his films, maybe going with a popular topic to start with might be one way to go. At least it would get attention.

I'm just not sure that this is the right way to go to attract a younger audience. I appreciate that you know your website better than we do, but if the teenagers in my life are anything to go by, then nothing short of a Carrington event or an EMP burst will separate them from their technology long enough to think about other stuff. I agree that it's incredibly difficult even to get them to converse about alternative ideas. The amount of brainwashing they've been subjected to is phenomenal, and nothing short of shouting strangely affectionate schoolmarmy abuse at them gets their attention, in my experience.

Perhaps this has to be a 2 strand approach...Josh for the younger audience, if his films do what you want them to, and us old farts can make our cozy tea and slippers vids with Alan Watt and other pensioners. And yes, I'm willing to put my money and effort where my big mouth is...I don't know about film making, but I'm a fast learner, and I can write, research and talk, so if anyone wants to collaborate and produce something we can put out there ourselves, I'm in.

So whats the stance on intellectual property from users on this forum being used to generate money directly in the form of videos do the forum members that contribute get a slice of the action?

Advertising is big money, haven't you heard?

reply to post by Springer


As the guy who first exposed some of these concerns that myself and other members now seem to have regarding dont tread on media I feel obligated to provide some kind of response.

The following is directed at all the "armchair Steven Spielbergs" and those who think they know "what ATS' mission is" better than those who built the site over the last 12 years, pay for, and run her...

Let me start by saying I love ATS, and I really do appreciate all the hard work that must go on behind the scenes to keep this site up and running, for free no less.

However Springer, you have just basically swung a nice big slap in the face of your members, your customers, with out us "your" website would be nothing, it would be just another random spec in the vastness of cyberspace. So you really should keep that in mind when several of us (and i am sure there will be others) express concerns over who you have selected to present our idea's .

We all feel very passionate about our ideas, our views of the world and the research we put into our threads. So when you pick a former DJ (with no journalistic experience) and his company(that is not actually a company) whose track record includes videos that make a mockery out of alternative media topics it does not fill us all with enthusiasm and leave us in awe at this new alliance you guys have forged.

It is frankly insulting that you call us "arm chair spielbergs" for raising these concerns, you have insulted us and went on the defensive rather than reassured us.

What would have been wrong with you having said something along the lines of:

"we have listened to the feedback of some members who have concerns, however we would entourage those members to give Josh and his crew a chance and in light of this feedback ATS staff will review our agreement with Josh after his first 3 or 4 videos based on member feedback.

Not start removing comments, insulting us and getting all defensive.

It is not that we are just taking a dump on this idea just for the sake of it, its because we really are deeply concerned with our idea's being presented by someone who knows nothing about them and then makes them look stupid.

How about everyone give Josh and crew a chance?

I totally agree with you on this, I think we should give him a chance now that the decision has been made that this is happening we might as well see what we get out of it.

How about waiting until they get a bloody video out before making judgement out of total ignorance?

Again with the defensive posture:

I and others are not making judgements out of total ignorance, we are basing them of his recent videos, such as him asking a dog for its views on the illuminati connection to popular music or turning up for a interview with his pants down and dont even start me on his views on atheism. That does not fill any of us much hope that he is going to transform our ideas into a really serious, mature and in-depth documentary that is respectful of the topics we feel very passionate about.

To those who are willing to give Josh and crew a chance, and not bag on people who are willing to get out and actually do something... THANK YOU!

It is not about "bagging" on anyone, I am sure josh and his crew are a nice bunch and i have said as much to him. Its just about raising some concerns.

And this "actually do something" line is again disrespectful to your members who have not fell over in awe of this new venture. We do "do something", I post on ATS most days, I create threads and contribute and propose ideas so please lets disagree over this amicably.

Springer you might think this is a wonderful idea, as might others, and that is fine, however I and others are only expressing a different opinion, that we happen to disagree with you on this one.

Please dont take it as any kind of insult towards to site itself, and I am deeply sorry if you are taking it that way, like i said at the start this is a amazing place. That said at the same time I have to say that this entire venture with dont tread on media from my point of view and the perspective of others if flawed and could have been handled much better.

Regards.

Otherside.

OtherSideOfTheCoin
Let me start by saying I love ATS, and I really do appreciate all the hard work that must go on behind the scenes to keep this site up and running, for free no less.

It doesn't read like it.

In fact, it read like outright character assassination. Not just in one post but over 3 of them. For someone who loves ATS you have a funny way of showing it.

Please dont take it as any kind of insult towards to site itself, and I am deeply sorry if you are taking it that way, like i said at the start this is a amazing place. That said at the same time I have to say that this entire venture with dont tread on media from my point of view and the perspective of others if flawed and could have been handled much better.

You know, in my time since I've been here every ATS project has been greeted in certain circles of haters with derision, negativity and insult. Mix got it. Conspiracy Chicks got it. Recap got it. Live! got it, the stuff with Robbie Williams got it and now you've dished it out on Don't Tread on Media, and in the meantime we constantly get allegations of being CIA/NAS/MI6 Cointel the staff get abused, some of us have had death threats, we've had our personal information mined and people have threatened legal actions against us etc.

On that basis it any wonder that Springer has reacted to what some people have posted here in the way he did?

reply to post by neformore


Well if i didn't like ATS i would go elsewhere, the fact is i really enjoy this site.

It is not character assassination as you put rather raising some very reasonable concerns that so far the staff have not really responded to other than with the "give them a chance" mantra. Which is fine, yes lets give them a chance see what they can do, but at the same time lets accept that there are some very big potential problems with this based on Josh's track record of making a mockery of some very touchy subjects discussed on ATS. Just because I dont stand in awe every time a owner posts something or someone has a amazing new idea does not mean i dont enjoy ATS. Its the community in ATS that I love to be part of, the exchange of idea's and the thrilling challenge of debate.

You know, in my time since I've been here every ATS project has been greeted in certain circles of haters with derision, negativity and insult. Mix got it. Conspiracy Chicks got it. Recap got it. Live! got it, the stuff with Robbie Williams got it and now you've dished it out on Don't Tread on Media, and in the meantime we constantly get allegations of being CIA/NAS/MI6 Cointel the staff get abused, some of us have had death threats, we've had our personal information mined and people have threatened legal actions against us etc.

Well i was never around for the conspiracy chicks, never had any real kind of issue with recap that i can recall and dont know anything about Robbie Williams and when i can i like to tune into ATS live. So please dont just make the assumption that I am just dishing it out for the sake of it, there are some very reasonable concerns that i have raised and I would hope that Josh and his team can convince me otherwise however so far i dont hold much hope for that.

Additionally I have actively defended ATS when it comes to the "ATS IS A CIA FRONT" rubbish or the crap about how the mods are all paid shills and so on. I help the staff out as much as i can, for example even on this thread I self edited one of my posts as it included content that staff had removed form another poster lashing out insults at me.

ATS should welcome feedback from members who express their concerns about certain aspects of the site. Where as just now for me it seems like the mods and staff have just all linked arms in a defensive posture against any criticism of this new idea.

Member feedback as i am sure you all know is a good thing, embrace it.

reply to post by neformore


This defensiveness is really worrying...and yes, we do totally understand how much effort you all put in and what you have to go through. The fact that there have been haters in the past should never make you react like this to reasonable criticism. WE are not your enemy...we want to see this work beautifully, but sometimes criticism hurts, and it's better to be upfront and genuine surely.

I'm sure you will agree that there are a couple of points about this whole thing that are a little weird...the lack of account on Josh's behalf, and the fact that no one from staff explained why it was ok when other members know not to do that. And also he has no track record in this field, which makes him an unusual choice for a project like this to say the least...of course we have concerns. If well meaning and hopefully constructive feedback is continually ignored from intelligent and interested site members, then mistakes will be repeated. Video projects should last a lot longer than 6 months...we should be building a massive online library on material that will last for years.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I think OtherSideOfTheCoin has done a service here, because the vid's he found, especially the Atheist video, did indicate that our official videoguy may have been a loopy attentionmonger (like myself). At that point, and in the ensuing discussion, Josh hadn't yet come back to the thread and chimed in. TOSOTC seems to have been making sure he got assurances that Josh treats ATS and the issues he chooses to cover with at least some respect, and that seems to have been given. Everyone, me included, may have overreacted a little, but not much when taking into account the atheist vid.

So of course, welcome Josh, and may your vids be groundbreaking and the cheers deafening - like a sonic boom underground, or the loud murmering sound that Arken's spine and its need for professional "eyes on" should be getting.

As one of the armchair Spielberg's, I say "Roll cameras!"

reply to post by caitlinfae


As site staff, we've learned to have thick skins. That's how and why we continue to do what we do but if people are going to try and shoot something down before its even got off the ground, then you should expect some comments back. You have your opinions - and you've made them clear. This is mine.

Its not reasonable criticism.

How can it be? Josh hasn't produced anything for ATS yet. There is nothing to criticise

People have no idea whats coming their way, and yet we get doom, gloom and - as I've stated - character assassination.

That's poor.

reply to post by Aleister

I think OtherSideOfTheCoin has done a service here, because the vid's he found, especially the Atheist video, did indicate that our official videoguy may have been a loopy attentionmonger (like myself). At that point, and in the ensuing discussion, Josh hadn't yet come back to the thread and chimed in. TOSOTC seems to have been making sure he got assurances that Josh treats ATS and the issues he chooses to cover with at least some respect, and that seems to have been given. Everyone, me included, may have overreacted a little, but not much when taking into account the atheist vid.

Thank you so much for that!

That is all I really want is some assurances that Josh and his team will show more respect with the ATS videos he has provided that and like i have said I will wait and see what the video's look like.

I will also admit that I may have over reacted a bit with some stuff in this thread, but that atheist vid still leaves me a little shocked.

reply to post by neformore

How can it be? Josh hasn't produced anything for ATS yet. There is nothing to criticise

out of interest was the introduction video not made by josh for ATS?

because if so that video is just a mash up of Josh's other videos one of which by the way is featuring someone smoking a illegal substance. Shockingly this is actually shown in the intro vid in the OP, you know the "we need to blur that out, my mom cant see that", they are talking about the Drugs so please watch that video and tell me it is fitting with ATS T&C's. Because these are the videos that I am talking about and the ones that have gave me cause for concern.

I would also like to say that this video showing people smoking drugs also has the dont tread on media name attached to it and by association that is now alliance with the ATS name.

would be very interesting to know what the mods have to say about this

reply to post by neformore


There was a video in the intro post, which we all watched and went looking for more. If you do a search, as we obviously did, and find his FB page, Twitter feed, and Youtube site then some of us had concerns about what kind of work he might produce. I don't think it's unreasonable at all to voice opinions based on these...he's in a media business, allegedly, and online, but there is almost nothing out there, not even a simple well produced website, to showcase his work.

Please don't be defensive...i know you don't see it as such, but we are trying to help.

I see quite a bit of back and forth here, and a defensive stance that is really unnecessary. Most have done nothing more than express concerns, and valid ones at that, however we have also stated that we will wait and see with hope that it is better than what has been done. No one is attacking anyone personally, and I think it is important to keep in mind that the members are the life and blood of ATS without loyal members ATS would not be what it is, so instead of becoming defensive it would serve ATS better to listen with a open ear and consider what is being said.
I thank Josh for his reply and hope that he will bring a new level to what he does while with ATS.

I want to start out by saying the next time someone starts claiming the mods here banhammer or remove posts for personal reasons, direct the person to this thread.

A lot of disagreements here, but pretty much exactly what I would expect from the mods and site owners regarding members being allowed to voice their opinions. Members are allowed to say their piece (peace? I feel like it's piece). I'm actually rather proud to be a member when I see a big thread with hardly a post removed where many disagree with the direction the site owners are taking.

I'm glad to see ATS trying to reach out to a larger audience (and let's not pretend it's not partly for $). Larger audience and some fresh blood is always a good thing, regardless of the motive. The more people, the more diversity of membership the better discussions will be. This is a move to grab a certain demographic, and I would like some more people my age because you old curmudgeons stick in my craw sometimes get off my grass sprouts.

I think (I'm going to mess this name up) TheOtherSideOfTheCoin deserves some credit here. I think he actually deserves APPLAUSE! Not just from the members who are skeptical of this new endeavor, but from management and owners. He did us all a service looking into the past of this guy. He raised valid concerns, and he was polite about it. Calling it character assassination is ridiculous. If you apply for a job and have a bad portfolio that isn't character assassination. It's suicide with the interviewer pointing it out.

I do not think this is going to end well. I will give it a chance, but the first video posted by Springer made me cringe. I understand why people are questioning this move. Who is this guy? He isn't a member. It doesn't seem he was successful at making videos (perhaps I missed it). Just out of the blue, here, we have a new video partner.

I'm in the middle of this. Ladies, you're both pretty. Who want's to see my new sheets (*clandestine breath freshener spritz*) ?

Tl;DR looks bad. Give it a shot. Thanks for pointing out how bad it may get, and Domo needs a new woman(s).

reply to post by Domo1

I think (I'm going to mess this name up) TheOtherSideOfTheCoin deserves some credit here. I think he actually deserves APPLAUSE! Not just from the members who are skeptical of this new endeavor, but from management and owners. He did us all a service looking into the past of this guy. He raised valid concerns, and he was polite about it. Calling it character assassination is ridiculous. If you apply for a job and have a bad portfolio that isn't character assassination. It's suicide with the interviewer pointing it out.

Thank you for those kind words.

All i have done is try to highlight some serious potential problems that these videos might have based on Josh LeCash's previous works.

I really want to know though what the mods think about his video containing drug use.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I have already addressed the concerns with the Atheist video. It was poking fun at people that are trying to turn Atheism into a new religion. That is all. I would align my own personal views with Atheists/Agnostics.

We plan on producing a segment around "Atheists United", a group in Los Angeles that recently opened an Atheist center (church).


What do you think about the nanny state?

Sorry, can't read through the whole thread at the moment, so I am replying strictly to the OP.

Don't really like the Ashton Koocher wannabe vibe going in the intro video to be honest. And really, we can't talk about a legitimate issue here due to TOC, a certain herbal substance, everyone knows what I mean. And in ~1:55 of the ATS video they show someone partaking in said taboo substance..... I don't get it, is it december fools joke here?

reply to post by NephraTari


I appreciate what you're saying NephraTari (nice to see you again by the way) I really do... I will also apologize for my harshness, I'm human and get fed up like everybody else and while that's no excuse, it's my story and I'm sticking with it.

It blows my mind that every time we introduce something new (something that NOBODY is required to participate in or even look at) there's always a small handful of people who immediately start telling us how wrong it is, how it's going to be the end of ATS, how bad it is, etc... This time was simply astounding because we haven't even got a finished product to criticize.

We haven't asked for input on this concept at all, there is nothing to give input about, the first video hasn't been produced yet. All we asked for was input about possible topics for a future video.

After all that, now we have people who either don't understand humor, or are just looking for anything to criticize, assuming a cigarette is an illegal substance because of a gag in a video clip. These same people are astounded because that topic violates our TAC.

sigh...

We've never been arrogant enough to assume our TAC should apply to videos, podcasts or anything else. We ask those who produce things in collaboration with us that end up on the site to respect our TAC, but we don't require strict adherence in video or audio products, we never have. We sure as heck don't worry about comedic devices.

I'm done responding to pointless negativity and will let the end product fly or fall on its own. It is my sincere hope that it flies and I think it will if Josh and crew work hard and pay attention to feedback that has value.

Springer...