Does Going to Church make you a better person?

Akragon
I've even found out whats involved in this conversion thing... Apparently i would be required to recite some creed infront of their members... Which i would not do... Im not going to lie to a group of people and state something i know is incorrect

Then you wouldn't be 'converted' and you'd be living a lie.
Honestly, I don't know how you can even stomach any of this
especially for a person who doesn't respect you.

FlyersFan

Akragon
I've even found out whats involved in this conversion thing... Apparently i would be required to recite some creed infront of their members... Which i would not do... Im not going to lie to a group of people and state something i know is incorrect

Then you wouldn't be 'converted' and you'd be living a lie.
Honestly, I don't know how you can even stomach any of this
especially for a person who doesn't respect you.

technically i'd be attending for her... its not a lie IF I do not state the words in their creed...

I would not proclaim her beliefs, but if I can stand in a group while they recite it... Sounds like a plan

In fact I think she respects me more then she even realizes... she can't answer the simple questions, just wait til their ministers can't answer the hard ones

She even told one of her friends about me... and that I've been studying religion for the past 10 years of my life... her friend said "you're in waaay over your head" LOL

Where'd you get all them stars by the way?

what say you lend this kitty a few thousand?

Akragon
Where'd you get all them stars by the way?
what say you lend this kitty a few thousand?

"share the wealth" ... sure ....

ATS has a technical glitch. The only number that is valid under the persons
avatar at this time is the number of posts made.
Stars, flags, wats, karma ... all screwed up with a computer glitch.
They've been working on fixing it for a few weeks ....

Hiya, Akragon,

Since I don't go to church anymore, I'm not really "qualified" to answer, but I DID go, every Sunday for the first 15 years of my life.

I know you think this will be "fun" and a "challenge par excellence" and that you will come through it unfazed...
but I think it would be prudent to think beyond what your goals are (having the girl and possible kids, with no "out" once you're in); and whether what you're doing will cause others to "hurt".

Intrptr is spot on; as is Flyers Fan. Did you watch the video that Awen posted? I only watched about 15 minutes of it, but it seemed it would help decipher what you're up against.

Bo also made some good observations.

You might be interested in reading "The God Virus" ; inexpensive, one-day read...a good 'deconstruction' of how Churchianity and Religiosity has, indeed, infected this country at large, and some individuals in profound ways.

I agree that you are getting into something that could blow up in your face. These folks are not "messing around" for kicks and grins, no matter how 'quaintly amusing' you might find it. They will back you into a corner if you give them ANY room or patronization, and when you refuse to recite their creed, they will turn against you. They won't just "give up."

Don't forget, also, that you noticing that she's 'changing' is also because she is still maturing - she is not fully grown yet, and her mind has been poisoned by this virus, perhaps irrevocably. It could shatter her if you successfully disabuse her of the nonsense she's been fed all of her life. My point here is that SHE IS NOT A FULLY DEVELOPED ADULT YET, psychologically speaking.

You truly care for this girl, I see that. I DON'T think you're seeing far enough ahead to make commitments at this point, my friend. You deserve someone who can appreciate - and, as FF said, RESPECT - you for who you ARE. Going into a relationship with the INTENTION of "changing" or "fixing" someone is inviting pain, suffering, and disaster that could wind up hurting BOTH of you (and God help any "children" caught in the cross-fire). Intercultural marriage is often just as difficult as (or more so than) interracial marriage.

You already don't RESPECT the church that she has already become entrenched in. Adorable when she's mad, eh? Not a good sign.

I'm going to send you a pm - watch for it.

reply to post by wildtimes

You already don't RESPECT the church that she has already become entrenched in.

That's not actually true... I do respect people for having "great faith" in God no matter how much I disagree with their belief system... that is actually one of the things that attracted me to her in the first place... Though I was completely hypnotized by her lack of willingness to explore the idea that the bible is "infallible"

Adorable when she's mad, eh? Not a good sign.

Sure it is... She gets mad but I still make her smile...

I don't get mad at all... You have no idea how frustrating that is to some people I know, including my friends who love to try to piss me off...

reply to post by FlyersFan

Thank you FlyersFan for the nod. I enjoyed what you wrote, too. Judging by his reply below your post to me he is intent on converting the whole church to win the love of a woman.

Fools errand? Or true love? He seems determined and secure enough in his position. They say True Love conquers all… what a battle this is going to be.

Wheres the popcorn?

reply to post by intrptr


LMAO!!

Stay tuned... and hope to God she never reads this forum

I have no interest in the church, just her... and I don't intend to convert her since I have no religion

reply to post by Akragon


Happy to be wrong about that.

If Christianity is just a 'better social club,' it's a cruel joke.

If there's truth there, then tossing it out with the bath is terminally stupid.

I hope you keep us posted.

I believe that God is going to pull off some super dramatic supernatural demonstrations of His authenticity and supremacy as things begin to fall apart wholesale on the planet. How convincing such will be toward a durable relationship with him--from your perspective--could be interesting to observe.

Cheers.

reply to post by BO XIAN

I believe that God is going to pull off some super dramatic supernatural demonstrations of His authenticity and supremacy as things begin to fall apart wholesale on the planet.

interesting that an evil generation looks for a sign....

How convincing such will be toward a durable relationship with him--from your perspective--could be interesting to observe.

What makes you believe I don't have a person relationship with God?

have you read Matthew 6?

reply to post by Akragon


"Recently I met a wonderful woman who makes my heart sing... and im sure some of you know shes Very Religious... She told me recently that "IF we were to be together in the future, I would have to attend her church... which is fine I suppose... Any relationship requires sacrifice... but I've also learned that I would have to go 2x on sunday..." Quote Akragon

I don't want to be the harbinger of doom.
Signs are NOT good Akragon!

I've been following this 'story'...I haven't heard mention of anything (of commensurate significance) that has been 'sacraficed' by her in the relationship...all I keep seeing is more and more sacrifices from you because...'she told me that IF we were to be together in the future, I would have to...' - this is basically saying 'I'm in complete control here, if you don't do what I ask, I'm outta here - singing heart, or not...bye, bye'.

You need to make some REAL decisions, or, there will be inevitable results from NOT doing as she wants.

It must be mentioned, even IF you fulfill the cascade of 'conditions'...you will still be dealing with manipulation...this 'relationship' does not seem like it is based (in any way) on equal terms...why would you expect it to change in that respect?

Å99

reply to post by akushla99

...I haven't heard mention of anything (of commensurate significance) that has been 'sacraficed' by her in the relationship

I haven't asked anything of her... I like her as she is

...all I keep seeing is more and more sacrifices from you because...'she told me that IF we were to be together in the future, I would have to...' - this is basically saying 'I'm in complete control here, if you don't do what I ask, I'm outta here - singing heart, or not...bye, bye'.

I've only stated what i'd be willing to do... lets all keep in mind I've known this girl for about 1.5 months...

It must be mentioned, even IF you fulfill the cascade of 'conditions'...you will still be dealing with manipulation...this 'relationship' does not seem like it is based (in any way) on equal terms...why would you expect it to change in that respect?

Because I am who I am... and I can't be anything less or more then who I am.... And she likes that

Akragon
reply to post by akushla99

 

...I haven't heard mention of anything (of commensurate significance) that has been 'sacraficed' by her in the relationship

I haven't asked anything of her... I like her as she is

...all I keep seeing is more and more sacrifices from you because...'she told me that IF we were to be together in the future, I would have to...' - this is basically saying 'I'm in complete control here, if you don't do what I ask, I'm outta here - singing heart, or not...bye, bye'.

I've only stated what i'd be willing to do... lets all keep in mind I've known this girl for about 1.5 months...

It must be mentioned, even IF you fulfill the cascade of 'conditions'...you will still be dealing with manipulation...this 'relationship' does not seem like it is based (in any way) on equal terms...why would you expect it to change in that respect?

Because I am who I am... and I can't be anything less or more then who I am.... And she likes that

Errr...doesn't sound like she does...otherwise there wouldn't be a lopsided 'trade-off' situation being presented...

The fact that you haven't asked anything of her, speaks more of your attitude - admirable and undemanding, without major condition...and I didn't ask whether You had 'asked' her to sacrifice anything...my comment revolves around cascading demands by her, with the obvious 'we CANNOT be together if you do not meet those demands'...

Your heart is soft and mushy now...ahhh love...but, religiosity aside, manipulation is manipulation...

Å99

reply to post by akushla99

my comment revolves around cascading demands by her, with the obvious 'we CANNOT be together if you do not meet those demands'...

And she says this, yet shes still my girlfriend...

time will tell I suppose

reply to post by Akragon


She likes that, but STILL is going to "require" you to go with her to Church twice every Sunday?

Hmmm... not adding up. She KNOWS you don't believe, right? So, why require you to endure her "favorite hobby"? That'd be like my husband INSISTING that I sit and watch football with him every weekend. NOT going to happen, as much as I love him and know how much he loves football. I find it boring, violent, and a waste of time. So, he doesn't "require" me to watch. But generally he expects me to "allow" him to watch, which is fine. I have other things to do to entertain myself - like practicing knife-throwing in the backyard, or reading, or going to movies, etc. (Or sitting on ATS while he watches and hoots and yells and eats). We're perfectly content with the 'routine' we've established, and don't DEMAND anything at all of each other.

Sure, I've gone with him to a few football games, and tried to sit and watch them, but I always become mocking and sarcastic while I'm watching it, which bugs him. So, now I don't do it.

In the throes of heart-singing-infatuation and seeming "love," we've ALL done things to make happy our chosen new "partner" - from going to their church or favorite sport, to any other activity they enjoy (like, for example, motorcycling, fishing, or any activity that THEY love but we have no interest in, just so we can be with them)...and any of us who've had long-term relationships have also discovered that the "contrived" togetherness during early months WEARS OFF.

Let us know how it goes, A!

Akragon
reply to post by akushla99

 

my comment revolves around cascading demands by her, with the obvious 'we CANNOT be together if you do not meet those demands'...

And she says this, yet shes still my girlfriend...

time will tell I suppose

Dude, she says it because she means it. You would be the last to accuse her of being a liar...and under the scenario you have presented...my guess is that the phrase has been used more than once...and there is no guarantee that it will not be used over and over again...because it works...that's classic manipulative MO...

Don't get too high then...it'll hurt more from higher up...

Å99

akushla99

Akragon
reply to post by akushla99

 

my comment revolves around cascading demands by her, with the obvious 'we CANNOT be together if you do not meet those demands'...

And she says this, yet shes still my girlfriend...

time will tell I suppose

Dude, she says it because she means it. You would be the last to accuse her of being a liar...and under the scenario you have presented...my guess is that the phrase has been used more than once...and there is no guarantee that it will not be used over and over again...because it works...

Don't get too high then...it'll hurt more from higher up...

Å99

heh... I've been married already...

I've fell from the highest tower... and im not about to trip again...

Akragon

akushla99

Akragon
reply to post by akushla99

 

my comment revolves around cascading demands by her, with the obvious 'we CANNOT be together if you do not meet those demands'...

And she says this, yet shes still my girlfriend...

time will tell I suppose

Dude, she says it because she means it. You would be the last to accuse her of being a liar...and under the scenario you have presented...my guess is that the phrase has been used more than once...and there is no guarantee that it will not be used over and over again...because it works...

Don't get too high then...it'll hurt more from higher up...

Å99

heh... I've been married already...

I've fell from the highest tower... and im not about to trip again...

You can be 'fleeced' by more than one 'conman'...don't think it couldn't happen again...stay SMART...

Å99

akushla99

Akragon

akushla99

Akragon
reply to post by akushla99

 

my comment revolves around cascading demands by her, with the obvious 'we CANNOT be together if you do not meet those demands'...

And she says this, yet shes still my girlfriend...

time will tell I suppose

Dude, she says it because she means it. You would be the last to accuse her of being a liar...and under the scenario you have presented...my guess is that the phrase has been used more than once...and there is no guarantee that it will not be used over and over again...because it works...

Don't get too high then...it'll hurt more from higher up...

Å99

heh... I've been married already...

I've fell from the highest tower... and im not about to trip again...

You can be 'fleeced' by more than one 'conman'...don't think it couldn't happen again...stay SMART...

Å99

My X wasn't a con artist... she was an idiot...

This one has a brain

Akragon

akushla99

Akragon

akushla99

Akragon
reply to post by akushla99

 

my comment revolves around cascading demands by her, with the obvious 'we CANNOT be together if you do not meet those demands'...

And she says this, yet shes still my girlfriend...

time will tell I suppose

Dude, she says it because she means it. You would be the last to accuse her of being a liar...and under the scenario you have presented...my guess is that the phrase has been used more than once...and there is no guarantee that it will not be used over and over again...because it works...

Don't get too high then...it'll hurt more from higher up...

Å99

heh... I've been married already...

I've fell from the highest tower... and im not about to trip again...

You can be 'fleeced' by more than one 'conman'...don't think it couldn't happen again...stay SMART...

Å99

My X wasn't a con artist... she was an idiot...

This one has a brain

Dude, conmen aren't stoopid...they're experts at functional manipulative techniques.

How many times has she used the phrase, or similar expression 'we can't be together IF...'? (given that you've only known her 1.5 months)

Å99

reply to post by FlyersFan


Have you noticed. FlyersFan, that he seems to only want the guys opinions on this one? LOL.

But from a woman's perspective, all I will say is this, they are not compatible already. They are trying to make the other compatible, and it never works. If they were compatible in the first place, then they would already share similar worldviews. But to tweak someone to get them to how you want them to be, means you can't overlook what you think needs fixing.

OP,

Here's the thing, if you love her, you love her as she is. And if she loves you, then she should love you as you are. But you are at different levels of intellectual maturity. Right now, and I said before that she was naive, her only concern is finding a man with similar worldviews.

But the Bible does say that if a man and a woman have different views but can live together peacefully, then let them. Right now, there seems to be very little peace between you two. And it won't get better.

No matter how much she makes your heart flutter today, tomorrow is another day. It might not flutter tomorrow. And then would you live in the regret that you didn't love her as she was? It isn't easy when two people have the same worldview, but no one should base their future life together with only a heart flutter today. It takes a lot of work, but when you have to change something to make it work before you even get to that point, then will she live in regret that she gave up something that meant something to her?

Hindsight is 20/20, that's why you should take the advice from people who have already seen how it ends up. Once you cross the Rubicon, there's no going back.

What I didn't hear you say is this "she is right for me and I am right for her". If you need to fix each other, then neither of you are right for the other. That's this woman's advice. I wouldn't just marry a man who made my heart flutter, because I know that tomorrow is another day, my heart might not flutter tomorrow.