Why can't God just show himself to us?

reply to post by danielsil18

I agree that people who try to be good because they fear Hell is not a good person. Which is sometimes ironic that some Christians say that Atheists are immoral when a good deed from an Atheist surely comes from his own moral judgement while a Christians good deed might come from the fear of going to Hell.

That's why no one is judged purely by good works alone.

God cannot show himself to us, because the god you are referring to, is only a work of man-made fiction; a character in a story. The Bi Polar Almighty!

It's a story used to prevent people from thinking for themselves.
When you eat the Fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, you are told you have Sinned and you should expect Eternal Hell in return!

When you are kept in the dark, you remain blind - ignorance is bliss - you are expected to Obey, Consume, Marry and Reproduce... Rinse and Repeat!

You are easier to control when you are Sheep with closed eyes.

When you have Knowledge, your eyes are wide open and you begin see life for what it truly is, and death is no longer a Fear, and fear is no longer a Moral Anxiety.

There is nothing wrong with having Faith.

However, if you're not strong-minded enough to be your own Shepherd, then by all means, keep your eyes closed and continue to be guided by Man's Greatest Myth Creation.

Religion is for the Weak! It's for the Sheep who simply cannot act as His or Her own Leader! Trust in those leaders, if you lack the power within to Strengthen, Control and Guide your own Light!

We are all part of the Collective Soul, the Oneness, the Self-Contained Plasmatics!

You are all gods...

Act accordingly!

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by danielsil18


It's logical that If God proved to us he was real then noone could disbelieve, we would all know he is real. As for the Jews, you are using the story of Jesus as proof of something when we don't know if his story was true.

As for the sotry of Jesus, I never said that a person named Jesus didn't exist. I meant the stories that he could "cure" and everything else could have been falsified, made up or misjudged. It could have been real too be my point is that we don't know.

Again, it would be proof to our generation, just like it was back then. But for people who don't see the event with their own eyes they will still demand proof.

Also, there is not a scholar in history who will say Jesus didn't preform miracles, these facts are well documented. If you don't believe them then you won't believe anything.

I won't post all them lest I be here all day. The one from Josephus who lived at the same time as Jesus is the most popular and can't be refuted by any scholar.

Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day.

Jewish Antiquities 18.3.3

Then God should prove himself every generation. He just be smarter than just leave us a book.

Also it's not a fact that Jesus had supernatural powers. There is no way we can know that, you can give me links to all the scriptures you want, it does not prove Jesus had supernatural powers and no, scholars words are not proof either.

You telling me that Jesus performing miracles is a fact makes me question what you actually think is fact and what is evidence. There is a big difference between fact and evidence.

Fact would be something in which we can't refute, it's real and nobody can say otherwise. Evidence is what you quoted in your reply.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by danielsil18

Originally posted by TheBlackHat

Originally posted by danielsil18

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Do you expect to see something in particular? As in a bearded old dude sitting on a golden throne?

Maybe you have seen God and haven't realized it yet.

Why doesn't he prove to us he is real?

If he loved me he would prove to me he is real. Surely he would be smart enough to know that "hints" don't work me.

Ok, just out of curiosity....if God is real...and showed himself to you...what would change for you...?
Seriously. Im very interested to know how you would be changed?

First of all, I would become a Christian and follow God's commands 100%.

You know what changes the most? My afterlife. Instead of suffering in Hell for eternity, I would go to Heaven.

Does it seem like a reasonable change to go to Heaven instead of Hell?

You might be surprised if you saw God.
You might not become a Christian after all.
You have a set idea of what God is, yet you have yet to 'see' God.
This is why I said that you may have already seen God, but you didn't realize it. You seem to be looking for what others have told you that God is.

What is God then? How can people believe in something they can't even describe?

reply to post by the_philth


Yeah, you keep believing that...

I'll mention to you what I mentioned to someone else...

That's what I am preaching, things that have been revealed to me through the Spirit. The things that are prior to the ego and how the ego can die.

You've been deceived into thinking your ego died when in reality, you just replaced it with a more puffed up version through your visions and experiences, just like the ones in the Old Testament.

Many Christian mystics opt for the second option - church traditions. They find that mystics and their practices existed from the very early days of church history. It is surprising that contemporary evangelicals sometimes cite Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions to justify their practices. But many do. They usually try to also find Biblical support, but such support cannot be found without twisting the Scriptures.

I believe that Scripture alone determines the valid means of coming to God. The Scripture reveals one obvious restriction: “Jesus said to him, ‘I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me’” (John 14:6). The Bible not only reveals the only way to salvation, but it also provides the means of grace for living the Christian life. God does not leave this up to man’s ingenuity. He has not left us to sift through the religious practices of the cultures of the world in order to choose which ones to “Christianize.” Those who do are modern day Jeroboams who will not grant to God the right to tell them how God will be worshipped.

cicministry.org...

The Bible warned about such things...

Ezekiel 13:6

They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The Lord saith: and the Lord hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.

Ezekiel 12:24

24 For there shall be no more any vain vision nor flattering divination within the house of Israel.

Jeremiah 14:14

14 Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Ezekiel 21:23

And it shall be unto them as a false divination in their sight, to them that have sworn oaths: but he will call to remembrance the iniquity, that they may be taken.

If you think the "Kingdom of God" is only within and not a physical one coming, you have been deceived by spirits and your own ego for having sought them out in the first place.

The Holy Spirit comes to you on it's own accord. You cannot seek it out to bring you experiences at your whim. It doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by danielsil18

 

I agree that people who try to be good because they fear Hell is not a good person. Which is sometimes ironic that some Christians say that Atheists are immoral when a good deed from an Atheist surely comes from his own moral judgement while a Christians good deed might come from the fear of going to Hell.

That's why no one is judged purely by good works alone.

I can safely say..any good deed ive ever done was not in order to get to a heaven i don't believe in. the only reason i have ever been good are because it makes sense. Or, because instinctively it felt the right thing to do...or because it gave me a sense of accomplishment inside..to know i did something good.
but i have never thought i was going to heaven for any of it.

Blackhat, I think you are either reading way too fast or over thinking this

I'll put this simple:

If God proved himself, then logically he would be real, ok?

If God was real then you would HAVE to follow the Bible. If God was real then everything in the Bible would be real. Hell would be real and so would Heaven.

If God was real you would have to be a Christian, follow the commandments or you would go to Hell.

Again, If God was real and proved himself.

And no, I don't want to be a Christian.

Just to make sure you get what I'm saying... I'm talking about the God that the Bible mentions.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by danielsil18

 

I agree that people who try to be good because they fear Hell is not a good person. Which is sometimes ironic that some Christians say that Atheists are immoral when a good deed from an Atheist surely comes from his own moral judgement while a Christians good deed might come from the fear of going to Hell.

That's why no one is judged purely by good works alone.

Sadly the Christian belief doesn't agree.

reply to post by danielsil18

What is God then? How can people believe in something they can't even describe?

You are asking me to give you a description so that you can have another picture of a God that you haven't seen in your head.
It is something that you have to figure out all by yourself. A million printed pages won't do it nor will any picture.

reply to post by danielsil18

Sadly the Christian belief doesn't agree.

Uh, I am a Christian.

Are you talking about "New Age Christianity"?

There's some confusion in knowing the difference.

So in other words you want to be a robot? If God pops out the sky every generation to prove Himself it would be no different than me pointing a gun to your head saying "do what I tell you or I'll kill you". You would only obey because God is forcing you, not because you love him. God doesn't want robots, if He did then free will would not exist.

You do know that it takes evidence for something to be a fact. The sky is blue, is that a fact? If so, based on what evidence?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by danielsil18

 

What is God then? How can people believe in something they can't even describe?

You are asking me to give you a description so that you can have another picture of a God that you haven't seen in your head.
It is something that you have to figure out all by yourself. A million printed pages won't do it nor will any picture.

If you believe in something you can't describe, then it's called blind faith.

It's like me saying there is something out there that makes you forget things, what it is? who knows. But you have to believe in it. You have to have faith that he exists too.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Sadly the Christian belief doesn't agree.

Uh, I am a Christian.

Are you talking about "New Age Christianity"?

There's some confusion in knowing the difference.

What does your Bible say about people who don't follow God?

reply to post by danielsil18

What does your Bible say about people who don't follow God?

That God will judge them, but it's not up to me to decide how he judges.

I only know that it takes more than good works for salvation.

It takes faith along with works, but not works alone.

Only God can determine what the true definition of "faith" is and what everyone believes secretly in their own heart, regardless of what they do.

I think the bottom line is that God does not have to prove Himself to man, man has to prove himself to God.

There is a lot of irony in your reply,

About the robot: I'll put it simple. We won't be robots. People can still rebel like Lucifer did. We can still choose to "die or do as God says" God proving himself will help many people, example: me. But other poeple might still rebel, so people won't be robots.

What looks more like a robot is a Christian who has to go to church every Sunday, has to do as the Bible says, has to live as the Bible says, and not do the things the Bible says. Now that's what I call a robot, letting a book tell you what to do and not do with your life.

About the "do what i tell you or i'll kill you": That's basically what God does in a different sense. "Do what i tell you or suffer in Hell for eternity"

and for the evidence part. Facts do need evidence, but evidence is not a fact. Jesus having superpowers is not a fact, in any way possible.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by danielsil18

 

What does your Bible say about people who don't follow God?

That God will judge them, but it's not up to me to decide how he judges.

I only know that it takes more than good works for salvation.

It takes faith along with works, but not works alone.

Only God can determine what the true definition of "faith" is and what everyone believes secretly in their own heart, regardless of what they do.

Funny how many Christians are keen to say who goes to Hell.

The Bible does mention that you will be punished if you don't follow the word of God and that your sins will be forgiven if you accept Christ as your saviour.

But what happens if you don't accept him? most likely Hell

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker
I think the bottom line is that God does not have to prove Himself to man, man has to prove himself to God.

How to prove yourself to something that we don't know is real?

Originally posted by Unrealised
Yeah, Christians say we have free-will.

We have the choice to have faith, and be saved.
We have the choice to not believe, and go to Hell.



How can you possibly expect a sane person to believe that rubbish?

Even if God was real, it couldn't punish you for using the free-will given to you.

A God would develop better techniques than "believe the story, or I'll kill you."



Besides, I'm a Solipsist.



I evolved past the Christian phase years ago.

then define for us.. 'sanity' as you would describe it.

and i dont think ur looking at it in the right light. God says do this and that "or you will surely die". not that he will kill you, but that because you didnt feed yourself, u will starve and die. and he has told you how to feed yourself.

im sure uve been to the arcade before, put in your coin and begin to play the game. there is a specific way to play the game or u die 'game over'. the game has 1ups at specific intervals but if you do not make it to the 1up u will run out of lives and die. you must beat the last boss.. or die.. save the princess.. or die.

it's simply an instruction on how to preserve life and your essence. he's given us the ability to live forever.. it's we that kill ourselves.

Probably not a good idea to start quoting from that book --- it's chock-full of creepy goodness as well, like that one story of a grown man wishing that bunch of kids get eaten by a bear, because they teased him for being fat and bald --- or giving out a rule that if your lady jumps in between you and another man as you two are about to put up your dukes with one another, and she just so happens to grab him by the privates, well... it suggest you teach her a lesson and chop her hand off...

Yeah man, I can quote from the Holy Book too, but I wont, 'cause that's just playing dirty pool!

So yeah, you keep believing that book too. It's your own soul, guide it however you wish! Be it blindly and dimly lit... as long as you obey and fear your god!