Why can't God just show himself to us?

reply to post by danielsil18


Even if God revealed Himself in some sort of international event, at best it would last only a generation or two. We see this clearly in the history of Israel. God took Israel from Egypt through a series of 10 miraculous events that showed the futility of the Egyptian pantheon of deities, the supremacy of God and His favor toward Israel.

But within a couple of generations Israel had begun to drift away from God after whatever took their affections. Today, many question the historicity of any of the Biblical events. So if God showed Himself today, what difference would it ultimately make?

God’s purpose is to be glorified, by you and I, whether we believe or not. He has determined that we are to be saved by faith, not by empirical “proof”. And faith is in accordance with His grace Romans 4:16

Originally posted by KaelemJames
reply to post by danielsil18

 

Even if God revealed Himself in some sort of international event, at best it would last only a generation or two. We see this clearly in the history of Israel. God took Israel from Egypt through a series of 10 miraculous events that showed the futility of the Egyptian pantheon of deities, the supremacy of God and His favor toward Israel.

But within a couple of generations Israel had begun to drift away from God after whatever took their affections. Today, many question the historicity of any of the Biblical events. So if God showed Himself today, what difference would it ultimately make?

God’s purpose is to be glorified, by you and I, whether we believe or not. He has determined that we are to be saved by faith, not by empirical “proof”. And faith is in accordance with His grace Romans 4:16

Why can't he reveal himself every generation? If he is powerful, loves us, etc. Then surely he would take the trouble to do it every generation so we don't stop knowing he is real.

reply to post by the_philth

So yeah, you keep believing that book too. It's your own soul, guide it however you wish! Be it blindly and dimly lit... as long as you obey and fear your god!

It beats making oaths with others who will lead you down the trail of delusional visions.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by the_philth

 

So yeah, you keep believing that book too. It's your own soul, guide it however you wish! Be it blindly and dimly lit... as long as you obey and fear your god!

It beats making oaths with others who will lead you down the trail of delusional visions.

So be it --- as long as we both feel we our on the right path of spiritual enlightenment and are on a mission of spreading the truest of love that shall overpower all things darkness... then I am content with my delusional visions as you are of yours!

reply to post by Deetermined

It beats making oaths with others who will lead you down the trail of delusional visions.

Orrrr...we can just rely on ourselves. So far as I am aware, our greatest miracles have come from the HUMAN spirit, not a HOLY spirit. Perhaps "God" is simply used as a springboard to unleash something that's been inside of us all along. Deities give us a reason to use something we already have.

reply to post by danielsil18


He did reveal Himself in some way, generation after generation, and ultimately gave Himself for us in flesh because we will never change.

Asking you now: Do you blame Him for not revealing Himself after what we have done to Him?

You have 5 children. Two of them kills the other 3, would you forgive them?

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The human spirit isn't capable of doing anything on it's own without the help of higher power.

reply to post by KaelemJames

He did reveal Himself in some way, generation after generation, and ultimately gave Himself for us in flesh because we will never change.

Asking you now: Do you blame Him for not revealing Himself after what we have done to Him?

You have 5 children. Two of them kills the other 3, would you forgive them?

1) He did not give himself. He more or less cloned himself and sacrificed the clone. Big difference.

2) Are you suggesting that your deity is afraid of his own creations? There's almost an infinite number of ways he can handle any possible confrontation. He has no reason to be afraid of what we might do to him, because we can only try. He is invulnerable. There is no reason he can't show himself.

Dear Daniel - the only way we will ever know if God is real, if Jesus existed is to read the Bible. It's an overwhelming feeling to think of reading the Bible. It seems boring, it's a huge book of crazy stories, lots of difficult names, a lot of seeming boring events, some fantastic and amazing stories. The Old Testament is scary and makes one think what kind of God that so loves the world would allow this sort of existence. The New Testament is entirely different. The New Testament was written once Jesus entered the scene. There are many versions of the Bible, and these days there are easy to read, in our way of speaking type writing, there are audio books so you can listen to it.

The only way to get to know God is to read the Bible. And if you want to know more and you really are questioning God then if you accept Jesus as your Savior (which simply means you agree that He died for your sins and you repent (which just means to change your ways - this does not mean you will never sin again, for that is impossible) then the Holy Spirit which is a part of God comes to live within you and the Holy Spirit will guide you and help you to learn and make things more understandable.

Our belief in Jesus is based hugely on faith. There are Christians who have never experienced visible signs of God. There are those who have felt the Holy Spirit moving within them (like a warmth, like a tingling, and sometimes like an overwhelming mass of love). We Christians believe there are only two choices: you must choose either Jesus as your Savior or you don't. If you don't this results in Hell. Is Hell a place of fire and torture? Or is it simply a distance from God and when our human existence is over then we will realize without any doubt what that really means. For we were all created as part of God. We belong to Him. But we must make a conscious decision to follow Him. Some Christians go all out and feel they need to live only for God, others read their Bible here or there, some still struggle with a devastating lifestyle - but all that matters is if you have accepted Jesus.

In the beginning God did walk with Adam and Eve. But when they ate of the "apple" God kicked them out of the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve were created as spiritual beings but became flesh when they ate of the tree of knowledge. After that God did reveal Himself to people but in the manner of a burning bush, with His voice, with angel messengers, with writing on the wall. God led the people for 40 years through the desert caring for them the entire way. God wrote in stone tablets and Moses showed the evidence. God burned the top of the mountain and it's still burned to this day. God cannot show His real self to us for we would be destroyed immediately due to His glory. He is too much for us.

God reveals Himself to me all the time by answering prayers for me. Sometimes it seems He has ignored me but when I come to the end of a particular issue I see exactly how God answered my prayers and usually it's in the most amazing way that I could have never dreamed of. Faith is just like, ie: if you are a small child and your father is standing in a dark hole and you are at the top and he says, "Trust me, jump and I will catch you in my arms." Faith is you deciding that even though you can't see your dad that he will catch you. And faith grows. All Christians struggle with faith.

If one were to read the Bible and then start looking at history and putting the pieces together one would see that it is a historical and spiritual document. Sure men wrote it but the Holy Spirit guided them. The Bible is filled with unimaginable acts but God doesn't lie. What happened in the Old Testament happened. We may not understand always but we must also remember that when Jesus was born the old "law" and old ways are of no more concern. We have a way out, we have someone who intervened and still does for us. The Bible does say those who don't want to understand won't and it is only by having the Holy Spirit within you can anything make sense and if it doesn't we don't have to let it drive us crazy - we can just live by faith and know all our questions will be answered one day.

It says in the Bible that when Jesus has come (this is at the second coming of Jesus) and the thousand years of living and procreating under the rule of Jesus (living with us) that when the devil is released people will AGAIN fall away and refuse Jesus. This is prophecied to still happen. But even then people will fall away. Jesus is pure love, so even then with visible proof it won't be enough. People allow the devil to mislead them, tempt them and it's people's ego that gets them into trouble and for some they don't think they need anyone as Lord over their lives (a Lord of love) and so even then when humanity will know what the past (our present, and our past of ancient days) they will still refuse Jesus. In the end we can only place our trust in Jesus. it really just boils down to that one simple act - trusting in Him.

Take care

Originally posted by KaelemJames
reply to post by danielsil18

 

He did reveal Himself in some way, generation after generation, and ultimately gave Himself for us in flesh because we will never change.

Asking you now: Do you blame Him for not revealing Himself after what we have done to Him?

You have 5 children. Two of them kills the other 3, would you forgive them?

Why doesn't he reveal to us now? did he quit on us?

Do I blame him? Well I don't blame him because I can't blame somebody who I don't think exists. It's like asking me if I blame Santa Claus for not giving presents to children in Africa.

About the 5 children, you have to elaborate more. You gave a simple question for a hard answer.

Would I feel bad? yes, would they still be my children, yes? would I feel the same about them after the killings? no. As for forgiving it all depends on how, why, etc.

What's the point you are trying to make?

reply to post by RealTruthSeeker

Originally posted by RealTruthSeeker

When I play chess with my kid he wins every-time, not because I can't beat him but so that he can learn. What good would it do if I just smash him every-time.

You fail to realize that man has a lesson that's needs to be learned. We won't learn anything if God just comes down and gives us the answer.

But the kid will not actually learn how to beat a good player, if he wholeheartedly(but inaccurately) believes that he is already good enough to beat you(his teacher) each and every time.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


I did that too. When my child was too small to understand. As she learned the rules and the game better and matured then once in a rare while I would win. And now that's she's a teenager we are each out to win!

Hi there,

do you really think that all the people, from all around the world not influenced by christianity, are doomed to hell just becouse they dont believe in certain thing thats said to be believed?

All the natural tribes? Are they lost cos their own ways? altough they did manage to live in great harmony with each other and nature.. Is it possible to judge others relationships with things above and below? Can you force your ways upon them?

So is it most important just to blindly fullfill rules, so one doesnt get into trouble in his suposed afterlife? That should be our inner spiritual life? Or is it to actively look out and think for ourselves about the laws of universe and nature, so we wont get into trouble this life? Or maybe our role is to do more, than just worry about our own future.. But that would imply we admit, that here are things, that are more important and powerful than we are.. That could be where are headed thoose who search. What is the purpose of life? That may be what attracts them ..


Do you know what it is, that you want to manifest itself?

reply to post by ccseagull

Dear Daniel - the only way we will ever know if God is real, if Jesus existed is to read the Bible.

So if I read Detective Comics, that means Batman is real?

The only way to get to know God is to read the Bible.

That seems pretty limiting. Besides, I'm looking for an equal relationship. I don't want to be a servant, I want to be co-owner and co-chairman. In fact, I could use a consultant. For the right terms and conditions, I might be willing to give a deity that position. But they gotta make an appointment first.

See, no deity needs us. No deity in their right mind would even want us. That puts us in a bad position because we don't have anything of use or value to a deity, and if they want it, they can just take it. What leverage do we have? None. What status do we have? None. What value do we have? None. We're in the worst position we can possibly be in. Any deities are in the perfect position to take full advantage of us and leave us broken and mangled with absolute impunity.

That's why I'm leery of having any kind of relationship with a deity. There's nothing I want that I cannot give myself, and the moment I make a bargain just to get myself a step ahead, I've put my entire being on a silver platter and offered it up for grabs. Where does it go from there? I don't know. I can't control that. I'm no longer my own person. I owe myself to whatever agenda this deity has, and I don't have a thing to say about it because it wouldn't matter if I did. This god sacrificed his own son for crying out loud! Imagine what he'll do if a stellar business opportunity pops up and I'm in an expendable position. What about kids that die every day? Children that are raped and tortured? Where do they fit in?

All in all, I'm afraid of having no choice but to accept whatever terms are offered to me. I'm terrified of having all control taken out of my hands for the benefit of this apparently "benevolent" being who promises to make everything perfect for me, but who could turn my life into a living hell with utter impunity. Remember Job? Yeah. That's the guy I'm supposed to give my soul to. That's the guy I'm supposed to trust.

After taking all of that into consideration, the god doesn't even have the decency to stop in and say hello, answer for his decisions, explain his plans, anything. Sounds like the kind of guy I would love to bump knuckles with. Pfft!

reply to post by ccseagull


Seagull,

Your reply is very long and it's hard to reply to all of it. There are many things I disagree with, other things are wrong like this one:

What happened in the Old Testament happened. We may not understand always but we must also remember that when Jesus was born the old "law" and old ways are of no more concern.

That's false according to the Old Testament. I'll play like Christians do, by quoting from the Bible:

“For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19 RSV)

There are more quotes but the point is that the old testament clearly says that the laws it gives can't be ignored until the end of time.

Seagull, I think if you read the whole Bible, you'll start to question it more.

But I agree with others things, like your whole belief is based on faith. But the example of when your Dad is in a dark hole and tells you to jump in, that's trust. It's trust all of us have for our parents, until our parents start lying to us. But you can't confuse trust with faith. They are both different.

Originally posted by ClevererRunbeening
Hi there,

do you really think that all the people, from all around the world not influenced by christianity, are doomed to hell just becouse they dont believe in certain thing thats said to be believed?

All the natural tribes? Are they lost cos their own ways? altough they did manage to live in great harmony with each other and nature.. Is it possible to judge others relationships with things above and below? Can you force your ways upon them?

So is it most important just to blindly fullfill rules, so one doesnt get into trouble in his suposed afterlife? That should be our inner spiritual life? Or is it to actively look out and think for ourselves about the laws of universe and nature, so we wont get into trouble this life? Or maybe our role is to do more, than just worry about our own future.. But that would imply we admit, that here are things, that are more important and powerful than we are.. That could be where are headed thoose who search. What is the purpose of life? That may be what attracts them ..


Do you know what it is, that you want to manifest itself?

I like ClevererRunbeening's post, and I feel it should be addressed!

Originally posted by ClevererRunbeening

Do you know what it is, that you want to manifest itself?

Can't an all powerful God manifest himself in a way that proves his existence?

reply to post by danielsil18


Hi Daniel - I'm sorry if that is how my comment came across. This is what I meant.

The teachings of Jesus, the Council of Jerusalem, and other New Testament teachings (John 1:16-17, Acts 13:39, Romans 2:25-29, 8:1-4, 1 Corinthians 9:19-21, Galatians 2:15-16, Ephesians 2:15) make it clear that Christians are not required to follow the Old Testament rules about crimes and punishments, warfare, slavery, diet, circumcision, animal sacrifices, feast days, Sabbath observance, ritual cleanness, etc.
Christians still look to the Old Testament scripture for moral and spiritual guidance (2 Timothy 3:16-17). But when there seems to be a conflict between Old Testament laws and New Testament principles, we must follow the New Testament because it represents the most recent and most perfect revelation from God (Hebrews 8:13, 2 Corinthians 3:1-18, Galatians 2:15-20).
www.christianbiblereference.org...

reply to post by AfterInfinity


The Father, Son & Holy Spirit. Godhead. The way i understand, and believe it

Source

There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.

The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.

Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).


The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.

The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38).

Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.




And i know, the word Trinity is not mentioned in the Bible. In case that should be a follow up here.

Originally posted by filledcup
reply to post by Miracula

 

i shall have you know, that ive been to the dark side, collected my cookies, then walked over to the light side where i collected my milk and honey. and then sat down to have lunch. LOL

I tried the milk and honey of the light side, and it was nothing more than vampires in church attire. More vicious than the supposedly dark side at the bars.

Choose the real sweets.