The whole Gay/Lesbian issue just took a step in the wrong direction

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


Thats true and a valid point.
Straight couples with gay kids in my mind is the proper basis for it.
A mother and a father is the way raising a child is meant to be. If your child comes out wanting a same sex marriage then hey, good for them. They were given the proper upbringing and really did go their own path.

But two gay parents in my mind, especially with all the , challenges in being gay these days would influence their child, deliberate or not its just the way it would be.

once again with the pedophiles remark that was merely pointing out that just because parents love their child doesn't mean its good. I was in now way clumping gay parents as pedophiles.. but its interesting to see people seeing it that way, hmm?

Originally posted by LordDerpingtonSmythe

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by Tw0Sides

 

..... if both parents were pedophiles but loved their child dearly, does it fall under the same umbrella?

also, why did you immediately specify the child as being a 'him' ? how about her?

edit on 6-6-2013 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)

Why do you need to refer to paedophiles when talking about homosexuality ?

There was a study claiming that homosexuals comprise of 2% of the population, but within that 2%, almost 40% are convicted pedophiles. However, 95% of convicted pedophiles are "straight" - as in married men who had molested boys (same sex attraction). When you look at the ratio 98:2 (Straight 98, homosexual 2) and the fact that many predator pedophiles are married men who prey on boys ... it inadvertently draws a link to homosexuality - as unfortunate as that is for the non-pedophile homosexual


and those "straight" married men who prey on boys? they are counted in the 95% of convicted "straight" pedophiles.

reply to post by LordDerpingtonSmythe


what the hell is half gay?
see your all jumping on your bandwagons here.
This billboard promotes more than a child making their own mind up.
A doting pregnant mother declaring '' Im having a lesbian '' is setting the ground work for a mother influencing her children'.

I dont pretend to, or want to know the specifics behind your parents and being a single parent situation.
But imagine if in the scenario a single mother raised a child after the father ran off with some young pretty secretary.
The mother constantly spoke ill of the father, no respect etc etc. Would the child not grow up with values and attitudes mirroring their mothers towards cheating fathers?

whether people want to admit it or not, parents influence their kids just by being who they are.

reply to post by Agit8dChop


hmm well let's see. I'm a lesbian my sister is straight, and we were both raised by lesbians. I just think that your sexual preference is not something you "choose" you're just born that way. (No Lady Gaga pun intended)

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

How bout we look at this another way.

A Child that has TWO Parents that Love him... How can that be a Bad thing.

Above all else, including pre-conceived biased notions, this IS what matters most. It's more important that a household contain two stable parents, irrelevant of their sexuality or gender. As sexual orientation is genetic, and Not a choice, to suggest that gay parents will influence their children's sexual orientation is not only unfounded but it detracts from the intelligence of children and underestimates them as well.

“Many studies have demonstrated that children’s well-being is affected much more by their relationships with their parents, their parents’ sense of competence and security, and the presence of social and economic support for the family than by the gender or the sexual orientation of their parents,” Benjamin Siegel, a Boston University School of Medicine professor of pediatrics, and co-authors write in a report published by the American Academy of Pediatrics the

Gay Kids, "Doing just fine"

The idea of a parent choosing their child's sexuality before they're even born is illogical, unscientific, unethical, and just plain damn creepy.

'You're having a lesbian'? What the hell? We're supposed to believe they can test for sexuality in utero?

What a load of bollocks.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by LordDerpingtonSmythe

 

what the hell is half gay?
see your all jumping on your bandwagons here.
This billboard promotes more than a child making their own mind up.
A doting pregnant mother declaring '' Im having a lesbian '' is setting the ground work for a mother influencing her children'.

I dont pretend to, or want to know the specifics behind your parents and being a single parent situation.
But imagine if in the scenario a single mother raised a child after the father ran off with some young pretty secretary.
The mother constantly spoke ill of the father, no respect etc etc. Would the child not grow up with values and attitudes mirroring their mothers towards cheating fathers?

whether people want to admit it or not, parents influence their kids just by being who they are.

"I'm having a lesbian" is ment to help people like yourself to break out of circular reasoning.
If you always start with the premise that homosexuality is not a natural occurrence but, a choice
then no matter what happens after will always lead you back to your belief.

Parents do influence kids but they dont make them homosexuals.

Originally posted by Gadsden
Yep just one of those double standards,when a straight couple's child is straight no one bats an eye, but when a gay/lesbian couple has a gay/lesbian child people freak out and act like they "brain washed" the kid.

I've never seen or heard of a gay baby.

That's what this is about.

Oh the outrageeee.. the common sense.. oh noes.. *runs in circles*

Originally posted by winofiend

Originally posted by Gadsden
Yep just one of those double standards,when a straight couple's child is straight no one bats an eye, but when a gay/lesbian couple has a gay/lesbian child people freak out and act like they "brain washed" the kid.

I've never seen or heard of a gay baby.

That's what this is about.

Oh the outrageeee.. the common sense.. oh noes.. *runs in circles*

the whole premise of a child having a sexual identity smacks of a pedophile's logic.

I mean I think the ad was trying to think of it in the long run, not a "gay baby" but I didn't make the ad so I really can't say what the message was trying to communicate.


Wait yes, yes I can. Simple message saying that sexual preference is not a choice, but that we are born that way. Just a not so graceful execution of an ad?? I guess since we are all here debating it.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by winofiend

 

I agree, which is why I am against adoption for gay couples because they will (maybe unwillingly) move that child toward a same sex mentality.

Its not natural, its not the way we were created. If a person is to choose homosexuality good for them, but they need to be given the same/normal nuclear platform to make that decision from.

You can not raise a straight person gay anymore than you can raise a gay person straight. And it is the way we were created because people have been gay through out human history. Not to mention you find it in the rest of nature as well. The one thing that should be clear is that people have tried everything to turn thier gay children straight and none of it has worked. I have never seen nor heard of a case where someone tried to raise a straight child gay but, they would fail as well.

Originally posted by Sankari
The idea of a parent choosing their child's sexuality before they're even born is illogical, unscientific, unethical, and just plain damn creepy.

'You're having a lesbian'? What the hell? We're supposed to believe they can test for sexuality in utero?

What a load of bollocks.

edit on 6/6/13 by Sankari because: typo...

Pretty sure you totally missed the meaning of the message here - I believe the gist is that you give birth to a lesbian, you don't raise a child to become one. In other words, *anyone* can conceive and give birth to a lesbian, even the Cheneys...

Well, I don't buy the notion that your 'born' gay or straight.
It doesn't seem logical to me.
Your values and attitudes are shaped through life experience and teachings.

And I'm not proposing that people are 'raised' gay or straight, more to the point that a baby, becoming a child, becoming a kid being raised by a homosexual male couple will ultimately not understand homosexuality in his infant years, as he gets older he always see's daddy and daddy together and ultimately it shapes his mind that way.

when he gets old enough to understand the world he's just as inclined as anyone else to choose his life path but his decisions will ultimately be made from his experiences.

Hold on maybe I am way behind here? Can a person really be born gay? I think the campaigners are just like other wind-bag politicians and will say anything. Besides, there's very little study to suggest a person can be born gay so why is Lady GaGa and co saying it?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Well, I don't buy the notion that your 'born' gay or straight.
It doesn't seem logical to me.

Its not about what seems logical to you or not.

Its about the science.

And an overwhelming majority of scientists disagree with you.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Your values and attitudes are shaped through life experience and teachings.

Being gay is neither a value nor an attitude. Its a physiological and neurological state.

Saying 2 gay parents could make a straight child turn gay is kinda like saying 2 black parents could make their white child turn black. Its just ridiculous and in the future when your grandchildren are raised with less scientific ignorance they will laugh at your views.

But two gay parents in my mind, especially with all the , challenges in being gay these days would influence their child, deliberate or not its just the way it would be.

By the time a person reaches the age of sexual maturity (or immaturity, however you want to look at it, 13 or so), you cannot influence them in any way anymore.
A teenager has a mind of their own, some very rebellious.

Plus, there are other influences in their lives besides their parents.

reply to post by polarwarrior


Science?

Science cannot prove you being born gay or straight anymore than it can prove the existence of religion.

Science doesn't understand the mind, being gay isn't a chemical imbalance.

Love doesn't hold true to any scientific model.

If you believe being gay can be proven by science then i think perhaps you under-estimate the value of a humans mental mind.

Originally posted by polarwarrior
Being gay is neither a value nor an attitude. Its a physiological and neurological state.

edit on 6/6/13 by polarwarrior because: (no reason given)

I disagree entirely.
You don't need to agree with me, that's the value of a site like this, agree to disagree.
But I personally think the 'fact' people trumpet about being born gay is nothing but a myth of sorts. An excuse so they don't need to comprehend or challenge the ideals.

I think people are scared of homosexuality, thus they create this perception that its just the way it is and its not something someone grows themselves into.

At a first glance of the rotund woman and the caption "You're having a lesbian" I first thought she is busy eating a lesbian for lunch!
news.ninemsn.com.au...

Perhaps different things work in different countries, but I think this campaign is more likely to raise the whole issue of nature vs. nurture rather than an argument for gay marriage (a can of worms in which neither pro-gay or anti-gay constituencies have absolute proof).

It does not follow immediately that because some gay people may be born that way that their parents should therefore support same-sex marriage.
Fundamentalist religious parents might say that regardless of whether same-sex attraction is ingrained or not, the child should be raised to fight those desires for a greater reward in heaven, rather than entering a "sinful lifestyle", like gay marriage.
Others might say that heterosexual marriage is the tradition, and gay partnerships should be called something else, even if they would not be against their kids being gay.
The campaign doesn't address such particular debates around same-sex marriage at all.

In the 1996 film The Twilight of the Golds the premise is that genetic analysis exists to test for a gay gene (which fortunately remains science fiction), and here the couple actually struggle with whether they should keep or abort the child.
In the 1990s that raised the specter of whether advancing technologies on gay genes was ethical, since rather than countering homophobia, attempts could be made to eradicate or alter such genes.
Clearly not all parents would be as delighted as the couple in the clip.
The femicide of girl children in some countries is already troubling enough to find the notion of establishing the sexual orientation of the child in the womb a horrific prospect.

Although I think I was born gay (although I can't remember being born, or popping out with show tunes) there are people (especially women) who have both same-sex and opposite-sex relationships in their lifetimes, and others who define themselves as bisexual or not at all.
This makes me think that same-sex marriage (which we've had since 2006 in SA) should be viewed as an extension of marriage rights for all, and not just exclusively "born that way" gay people.
The campaign could imply that one needs some kind of card to prove one is a life-long homosexual before being able to have a gay marriage!

As the OP suggests, messages on children and sexuality are also likely to raise alarm, no matter what their intention.
Even slightly concerned people will view this as an endorsement to somehow train or raise children to be gender non-conformist, or whatever cultural performance is stereotyped as "lesbian".
Notions of gays recruiting young people are still widespread, and this feeds right into it.

Not a good or effective campaign in my view, and possibly harmful.
In Western culture marriage is an adult choice, and it would be better to focus on adults and their rights.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by polarwarrior

 

Science?

Science cannot prove you being born gay or straight anymore than it can prove the existence of religion.

Science doesn't understand the mind, being gay isn't a chemical imbalance.

Love doesn't hold true to any scientific model.

If you believe being gay can be proven by science then i think perhaps you under-estimate the value of a humans mental mind.

So the very fact that every gay person will tell you that they were indeed born that way means nothing to you? Do you think that each and every one of them were born straight and then there was some complex series of events that somehow caused them to flip? To me, logic negates the need to scientifically prove it.