The whole Gay/Lesbian issue just took a step in the wrong direction

I think the OP may have a point.

I used to think gay people were born that way, but I'm not so sure now.

Years ago I had a conversation with a gay bloke as part of my nurse training (we visited the local LGBT centre).

I asked him at what age did he first realise he was gay.

He replied, "In my teens."

But he hadn't finished; he went on to say that all the gay men he knew said the same thing....not until they were teenagers.

How does that fit with being born gay?

I also had a male patient who was gay.

He didn't at all fit the stereotype....a bit of a roughian, to be honest.

He always put his gay condition down to having been sexually molested by a male paedophile when he was a kid.

I have no idea if this was true, but that's what he said.

I suppose the burden of my song is that this is a complex subject about which not a very great deal is known.

reply to post by CJCrawley


You don't think maybe your nursing buddy discovered he was gay when he came into puberty and for the first time in his life had sexual urges? How many second graders are getting laid these days?

CJ

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

How bout we look at this another way.

A Child that has TWO Parents that Love him... How can that be a Bad thing.

its called morals,,, not based on the bible but in human life... gays are not an acceptable nature act...
if anything it is a mental disorder and needs to be dealt with accordingly

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by CJCrawley

 

You don't think maybe your nursing buddy discovered he was gay when he came into puberty and for the first time in his life had sexual urges? How many second graders are getting laid these days?

CJ

Do you mean in the Catholic Church?

I hope they put an end to all that.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


I didn't ask him, "When did you first get laid?"

The question was, "When did you first realise you were gay?"

Originally posted by steve95988

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

How bout we look at this another way.

A Child that has TWO Parents that Love him... How can that be a Bad thing.

its called morals,,, not based on the bible but in human life... gays are not an acceptable nature act...
if anything it is a mental disorder and needs to be dealt with accordingly

please don't offend me, i was born homosexual, i didn't select it,it's not a 'Mental Disorder'

i know those words sound good on the internet or in discussions as they are 'Buzz words' but it's not factual a'tall,

you can believe what you want,t but ignorance and intolerance crosses lines, i have not called you any names, or said you 'Straight' people is a mental disorder

reply to post by Darth_Prime


I don't think you were born homosexual, how that is offensive I do not know.
Whats the big issue with someone coming to the understanding they are gay and prefer life that way?

When you were a child, were you homosexual or were you a child? you didn't even have the comprehension of sexuality when watching cartoons.

I know people like to claim they are something to fit in or perhaps better their side to an argument.

I wasn't born straight I was born a baby with a penis. I grew up and found out that straight was what i wanted and that females were what i was attracted too.

There's no proof or scientific evidence suggesting your born gay/straight.

Respect to you for being open about it and hey if it makes you happy dude / chick im all happy for you. Go life right...


.. but this ''fact'' that people are born gay or straight is nonsense, in my personal opinion.

Back before the coup at the American Psychological Association in 1978, the APA still allowed research into the 'causes' of homosexuality. (no research can be done now; you lose your career for even suggesting that gay is a choice.)

The experience and research from most psychologists back then was that gay men often had an emotionally absent father and a domineering mother. Lesbians were supposed to have a similar difficulty connecting emotionally with their mothers.

Back then, no psychologist believed that gays were "born that way." They would have been shocked at the idea that a complex constellation of traits such as sexuality was magically pre-determined, and totally unalterable.

But if it is pre-determined, what ELSE is? What other complex constructs are predetermined? Your politics? Your religion? Your college major?

What is attractive to you may feel automatic. What you do about that attraction is always a choice.

And what about bi-sexuals? Are they born in the middle? If there IS a middle, that sounds a lot more like a continuum than a genetic switch that got flipped. And with most continua, you move up and down them throughout the course of your life.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Agit8dChop

 

How bout we look at this another way.

A Child that has TWO Parents that Love him... How can that be a Bad thing.

I am all for people being happy and my wife agrees. I have known a lot of people who prefer the same gender and even have a few family members who are gay. While it is not a bad thing for the parents of a child to be gay it can turn the child into a social pariah..... which is truly unfortunate... but in high school there was a kid who had two mommies and lived in a trailer park, his life was hell!! The gay parents need to make sure they are raising their kids up to understand what the world has become and the hardships the kids will face from the parents choices... its all about the kids... every child regardless of who their parents are deserve to be happy. I am so sick of kids being ridiculed these days for something they cannot control. I agree with Agit8dChop... any child who has two parents who love them is a lucky child indeed. Now if only the bullies and aholes could figure out you dont hate on the children because of the parents choices.... the kids have no power over that.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
reply to post by Darth_Prime

 

I don't think you were born homosexual, how that is offensive I do not know.
Whats the big issue with someone coming to the understanding they are gay and prefer life that way?

When you were a child, were you homosexual or were you a child? you didn't even have the comprehension of sexuality when watching cartoons.

I know people like to claim they are something to fit in or perhaps better their side to an argument.

I wasn't born straight I was born a baby with a penis. I grew up and found out that straight was what i wanted and that females were what i was attracted too.

There's no proof or scientific evidence suggesting your born gay/straight.

Respect to you for being open about it and hey if it makes you happy dude / chick im all happy for you. Go life right...


.. but this ''fact'' that people are born gay or straight is nonsense, in my personal opinion.

edit on 7-6-2013 by Agit8dChop because: (no reason given)

Male,

indeed, my post wasn't towards you, it was to the one that said it was a 'Mental Disorder' and should be handled accordingly,

indeed, we can get into the argument of ' i was born a child', but i know for certain i didn't 'Select' to be Gay, i didn't say 'Woman or Men, i select Men',

point is,i "know" i was born gay, though, you can believe i wasn't born 'Gay' that doesn't offend me

Originally posted by tovenar

Back before the coup at the American Psychological Association in 1978, the APA still allowed research into the 'causes' of homosexuality. (no research can be done now; you lose your career for even suggesting that gay is a choice.)

The experience and research from most psychologists back then was that gay men often had an emotionally absent father and a domineering mother. Lesbians were supposed to have a similar difficulty connecting emotionally with their mothers.

Back then, no psychologist believed that gays were "born that way." They would have been shocked at the idea that a complex constellation of traits such as sexuality was magically pre-determined, and totally unalterable.

But if it is pre-determined, what ELSE is? What other complex constructs are predetermined? Your politics? Your religion? Your college major?

What is attractive to you may feel automatic. What you do about that attraction is always a choice.

And what about bi-sexuals? Are they born in the middle? If there IS a middle, that sounds a lot more like a continuum than a genetic switch that got flipped. And with most continua, you move up and down them throughout the course of your life.

yep - an overlooked fact in this whole thing. The APA coup de etat.

Here is a study that was done in Sweden. Take it for what you want, but I feel your ideas on the matter won't budge no matter what you are shown.

PNAS

Clips from the Abstract:

Cerebral responses to putative pheromones and objects of sexual attraction were recently found to differ between homo- and heterosexual subjects.

Heterosexual Men and Homosexual Women showed a rightward cerebral asymmetry, whereas volumes of the cerebral hemispheres were symmetrical in Homosexual Men and Heterosexual Women.

The results cannot be primarily ascribed to learned effects, and they suggest a linkage to neurobiological entities.

what i fail to comprehend, is if we selected to be homosexual, it means you selected to be Heterosexual, which means you could easily select to be homosexual at whim?

does that explain attraction and sexual attraction? do you really believe you could 'Talk yourself into' being sexually attracted to the same sex?

The sexism is still impossible by even calling the affiliations by male and female, or gay and lesbian. Homonormative labeling defies explanation.

I guess that is under the concept of sex being that activity that results in offspring.

Wouldn't it be a curveball if that baby lesbian grew up transgender.

Mom, mom, I have something to tell you.... I'm a heterosexual.

Things you might never hear.

reply to post by tport17


I read somewhere that male foetuses are 'sexualised' within the womb by being exposed to testosterone, and that this exposure - for unknown reasons - fails to occur with male foetuses who later become gay.

It somehow programmes the brain to be heterosexual.

Interesting theory but no absolute verification.

I would say the causes are multifactorial.

Gay men don't all come off a production line.

In my long career as a nurse, I've never once come across a gay male who knew he was gay from his earliest memories.

But I have met quite a number who were effeminate from an early age, dressed up in mum's clothes, etc...

Maybe that's the clue.

but to be fair have you heard of anyone who knew they were straight from earliest memory? it doesn't mean we were not born 'Gay' just because our earliest memories were not being attracted to the same sex

it's dealing with chromosomes and things happening in the womb i honestly am not entirely privy about

reply to post by Darth_Prime


No see that's not what I'm getting.
Its not a decision you make one day.
It takes years and years of your surroundings, your environment, your upbringing...
Your life molds you into the person you are, you don't just chose and you aren't just born with it.

reply to post by CJCrawley


I am now 54, I knew before I was a teenager that I was "different" to my "straight" brother (I also have a "straight" sister), my brother and I were and still are the best of friends and we have moved in the same circles all our lives, same friends, same sports, same parents, same lives and we still do.
I knew at a very young age that I was interested in boys and not girls, I just didn't have a name for what I was. By the time I got to high school, keep in mind that this was around 40 years ago, I knew that I was something that was "unmentionable"! I was "GAY"!
I was born gay and I will die gay! I don't care how many of you shout from the rooftops that people are not born gay, that we choose to be gay, I know that I WAS BORN GAY!

Originally posted by wiser3
reply to post by CJCrawley

 

I am now 54, I knew before I was a teenager that I was "different" to my "straight" brother (I also have a "straight" sister), my brother and I were and still are the best of friends and we have moved in the same circles all our lives, same friends, same sports, same parents, same lives and we still do.
I knew at a very young age that I was interested in boys and not girls, I just didn't have a name for what I was. By the time I got to high school, keep in mind that this was around 40 years ago, I knew that I was something that was "unmentionable"! I was "GAY"!
I was born gay and I will die gay! I don't care how many of you shout from the rooftops that people are not born gay, that we choose to be gay, I know that I WAS BORN GAY!

i concur, i was always more 'Effeminate'

indeed, i had a horrid, horrid, horrid childhood and teen/young adult, and i am in my early Twenties,but my 'Upbringing' didn't 'make' me gay,

if that was true, why do straight couples have gay children? if they know that their 'Upbringing' could 'Make' them gay, why are gay people still being born?

i mean, i think i would know if i selected to be gay or not correct?

reply to post by Darth_Prime


Isn't it strange how so many say it's a choice but when we question when they made the choice to be "straight" they either can't give a "straight" answer or just deflect and avoid the question!