US Says Iran's Nuclear Claim is Hype

Originally posted by theubermensch
reply to post by Phantom28804

 

I found this to be probably one of the funniest headlines I have seen in awhile not to mention ironic.

I agree. They will increase the chocolate ration to 20 grams next.

edit on 16-2-2012 by theubermensch because: (no reason given)

Funny, yet scary. I wonder how many people actually get that reference...

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I think this article is just hype. The Iranians have been releasing periodical announcements on their nuclear development for years now so it isn't really a shocking surprise or anything.

Originally posted by CALGARIAN

Originally posted by Unvarnished


Iran is too poor to make a nuke,

what does this even mean?

They are tens of thousands of missiles and were in the process, confirmed, of making new long range weapons..
Maybe not able to contain a large nuclear payload, but still.

The hardest, and most expensive, part of a nuclear weapon is creating a Nuclear Plant to enrich uranium and create plutonium... In which they have already made.

According to the IAEA report the Iranian enrichment is up to 20% which is nowhere near what is needed for a nuclear weapon. I do not and have not seen anything to indicate that Iran is attempting to weaponize their nuclear program. Not from the IAEA reports and definitely not from anything Israel or the US have shown anyone. With the US and Israel it's just words from a mouth. There is absolutely nothing being shown to you or anyone else that proves any of it. They are just force feeding us what they want you to hear and not showing you anything. It literally comes down to what Hitler said years ago. Tell a big enough lie and everyone will believe you.

Funny, yet scary. I wonder how many people actually get that reference...

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I think this article is just hype. The Iranians have been releasing periodical announcements on their nuclear development for years now so it isn't really a shocking surprise or anything.

I agree the article is hype, but the point is that both Israel and America are calling into question the legitimacy of Iran's nuclear advancements. However, on the same note they are expecting us to believe that while Iran lacks the proficiency to enrich uranium for domestic use they are on the verge of making a nuke to threaten us all. That is the main reason I started this thread.

The US is just trying to tempt Iran into using one to "prove" us wrong.

Then the door is open, and war begins.

Just trying to portray them as less than honest..
If Iran are so willing to stand in front of the world and boldly throw out a lie, then it tarnishes everything else they say regardless.

Originally posted by hoochymama
I thought they were going to blow up Israel any day now. The PTB are doing this right in front of our faces now. The Propaganda machine works both ways and I would bet 80% of Americans didn't even notice this so they will continue to blindly follow the marching orders of the UN and continue to place Sanctions (tool of War) which only incite more hatred to America and there so called Allies.

edit on 16-2-2012 by hoochymama because: (no reason given)

80% of Americans aren't in the military are they!?

reply to post by Phantom28804

I found this to be probably one of the funniest headlines I have seen in awhile not to mention ironic.

So the United States and Israel both claimed Iran was on the brink of a Nuclear weapon and must be stopped. Rattling sabres and beating on the war drums for a couple of months now at least. Talk of preemptive strikes, unexplained explosions, and even assassinations (which I actually thought was banned by the US itself).

Now all of a sudden Iran is embellishing their achievements in nuclear technology.

These articles are the ones that just make you go hmmm. When the same government claiming one thing suddenly turns around and contradicts itself. If we do end up at war with Iran. Then of course they will claim these articles never existed. Kind of like when Bush went from saying Iraq had WMD's to saying we never said they had WMD's.

You absolutely nailed it!!

Originally posted by Unvarnished


Iran is too poor to make a nuke,

North Korea made one and test detonated it and they are much more worse off than Iran. Plus Iran has a bit better backing / relations with Russia and China than what North Korea does.

Russia / China - Husband and Wife of their family.
Iran - The troubled son
North Korea - The special son.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by Unvarnished


Iran is too poor to make a nuke,

North Korea made one and test detonated it and they are much more worse off than Iran. Plus Iran has a bit better backing / relations with Russia and China than what North Korea does.

Russia / China - Husband and Wife of their family.
Iran - The troubled son
North Korea - The special son.

edit on 16-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

How is Iran "troubled"?

I don't see Iran doing anything wrong. Everything that they are doing, is legal. They are not enriching weapons-grade uranium, they are not building nuclear weapon production facilities. Even the Mossad and CIA admit that the Iranians have no viable nuclear weapons program, but it is their political wings that keep pushing the fear lever.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
How is Iran "troubled"?

It was a metaphor - as in the black sheep of the family.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
I don't see Iran doing anything wrong. Everything that they are doing, is legal. They are not enriching weapons-grade uranium,

Uhm ok..
Blocking IAEA inspectors from sites they have already claimed as part of their nuclear program - violation
Building facilities linked to their nuclear program without disclosing them BEFORE building - violation
Developing ballistic missiles with payload warhead capacity - violation
Being caught with programs whose only purpose is for nuclear weapons design / construction - violation
Plans to build a heavy water reactor - red flag

There are a few levels of Uranium, which dictates their classification -
* - Slightly enriched Uranium - 0%-2%
* - low enriched Uranium (lower half) - 3% - 5%

reply to post by Xcathdra


Panetta: Iran undecided over nuclear bomb

Not even the US Secretary of Defense is convinced.

Building facilities linked to their nuclear program without disclosing them BEFORE building - violation

Probably because they don't want to designate their own facilities as targets for bombing runs.

Developing ballistic missiles with payload warhead capacity - violation

You could theoretically put an NBC warhead on any ballistic missile, or cruise missile, or cargo container, or truck, or backpack, or suitcase...

Being caught with programs whose only purpose is for nuclear weapons design / construction - violation

And which programs are those? The enrichment percentage needed for nuclear energy (3-5%) or the enrichment percentage needed for medical isotopes (20%)? I haven't seen any evidence that Iran has been enriching past the medical threshold, nevermind to the 90%+ point needed for weapons.

* - Highly enriched Uranium - 20% +

reply to post by Xcathdra


Yeah, but those claims should have been added to the Iran is after nukes propaganda because the advancements Iran announced were better centrifuges. Those centrifuges would also be used in further enrichment for weapons just as much as the power program.

Originally posted by Vitchilo
The US government talking on both sides of their mouth...

One side they say Iran is a threat and about to destroy us all...

And on the other side they say Iran is hyping it all...

It's not a contradiction if you understand the issues... Trouble is everyone thinks they're an expert and few actually understand.

Iran has peaked worldwide political confrontation before their nuclear arsenal is ready. The US is calling their bluff and correctly so. Iran is sabre rattling to prevent a first strike... That is what is really happening.

Ahmedinejad is freaked out because Iran still is not ready for a nuclear confrontation but they have raised the temperature to a point where the Iranian Government is Sh** scared of a first strike.

The Iranians are trying to ratchet up fear amongst the population in Western countries to undermine the political support for a first strike... That is what is really happening and judging by all the chicken little comments their strategy is working fine.

I saw a TV item on BBC where a so called expert commentator remarked that the 20% enriched Uranium fuel rod being loaded into the reactor at Tehran University is no threat and is clearly for peaceful purposes. That guy's reputation should be flushed down the toilet along with the BBC's reputation for informed debate.

In 1993 Iran imported five tons of tributylphosphate, a controlled substance with no other legitimate purpose except to chemically separate Plutonium from Uranium.

The reactor at Tehran university is not a reactor for power generation. It is a heavy water reactor necessary for obtaining Plutonium because unlike a nuclear power reactor, a heavy water reactor generates slow neutrons needed to transform Uranium 238 into Neptunium 239 (which then degrades quickly into Plutonium 239)

In 2004 IAEA inspectors discovered 600 grams of Plutonium refined from nuclear waste from that very reactor. If that reactor had a peaceful purpose then why was it being used to harvest Plutonium?
Plutonium has only one use and that is for nuclear weapons.

The BBC commentator made some banal remark that the Uranium in the fuel rod was only 20% enriched therefore useless for a bomb yet he misses the point. Most nuclear power reactors need little or no enrichment. Some modern designs are un-enriched whilst most commercial reactors are only 1.5%. Even Soviet era power reactors only require 6% enrichment.

Plutonium breeder reactors which is what a heavy water reactor can be used as, use 20% Uranium 235 and 80% Uranium 238 in their fuel rods because it is the remaining 80% which undergoes conversion for nuclear weapon material. Thus the fuel rod loaded into their reactor at Tehran University is precisely the first step to harvesting Plutonium for nuclear weapons.

The point about Iran refusing to be monitored and refusing to accept foreign nuclear fuel rods is their own fuel rods cannot be independently monitored. Iran has taken an obvious first step to developing nuclear weapons and uninformed commentators are still misleading the public that this is for peaceful purposes...so much B/S !

I am neither Jewish nor a defender of Isreal's conduct against the Palestinians, however in the interests of honest debate I feel forced to defend Isreal against those who say what is the difference with Isreal having nuclear arms?

The answer is this... The difference is that Isreal has had the bomb for 30 years now and not once has Isreal threatened to use them to destroy it's neighbours. Isreal could have done so many times over and has always practiced civilised restraint with it's nuclear weapons.

Iran however has lied about it's nuclear weapons project repeatedly, has threatened to destroy the US, Isreal, and all of USA's allies in the Gulf and in Europe.

The difference for those too blind to see is that Iran is essentially promising to create WW3 the moment it has the capability. That is why Iran must be stopped...

One last comment. I feel sorry for the people of Iran who for the most part are warm and civilised caring people, but their illegally elected regime is no representative of the true will of the Iranian people.

I for one advocate a first strike before it is too late.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi


The concern is Iran's ability to make a nuclear bomb. The concern stems from the centrifuges, which has been at the top of the concern list for years now, and the enrichment level, which is above the level needed for a civilian nuclear program. Their claim for enrichment to the 20% is for medical, yet that application doesn't require 20%

Iran continues to block access to certain site.
They built a secret enrichment location and got caught.
IAEA inspectors located software for nuclear explosion testing.

If their program is peaceful, why continue to to ignore IAEA requirements and inspections? As far as the comment on targeting their facilities. If the IAEA determines they are peaceful and not in violation, what good what it do for the US / Israel to attack it? Opinion would quickly favor the Iranian side since the IAEA report would go against the claims.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Yeah, but those claims should have been added to the Iran is after nukes propaganda because the advancements Iran announced were better centrifuges. Those centrifuges would also be used in further enrichment for weapons just as much as the power program.

Everything I have seen focuses on the centrifuges and the 20%, which goes to the ability to make one problem.

The 20% enrichment is way over the level required for LWR energy production and the medical application. If Iran wants nuclear power im fine with that, and the US is also and has stated as much.


@ anyone who wants to answer
I just dont understand, and maybe people on the other side of the fence can try to explain this one to me, is the reason for all the subterfuge from Iran? To me they took their civilian nuke program right to the level and slightly above, moving it from civilian to the ability of civilian with military applications..

Why deny access to IAEA inspectors if there program is valid?
Why continue to brush of meetings with the IAEA by sending the low level functionary instead of the upper level of the Iranian government?

To me it just looks like they are doing whatever they can to buy some time.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

source

Grades

Slightly enriched uranium (SEU)

Slightly enriched uranium (SEU) has a 235U concentration of 0.9% to 2%. This new grade is being used to replace natural uranium (NU) fuel in some heavy water reactors like the CANDU. Costs are lowered because less uranium and fewer bundles are needed to fuel the reactor. This in turn reduces the quantity of used fuel and its subsequent management costs.

: Reprocessed uranium

Reprocessed uranium (RepU) is a product of nuclear fuel cycles involving nuclear reprocessing of spent fuel. RepU recovered from light water reactor (LWR) spent fuel typically contains slightly more U-235 than natural uranium, and therefore could be used to fuel reactors that customarily use natural uranium as fuel. It also contains the undesirable isotope uranium-236 which undergoes neutron capture, wasting neutrons (and requiring higher U-235 enrichment) and creating neptunium-237 which would be one of the more mobile and troublesome radionuclides in deep geological repository disposal of nuclear waste.

Low-enriched uranium (LEU)

Low-enriched uranium (LEU) has a lower than 20% concentration of 235U. For use in commercial light water reactors (LWR), the most prevalent power reactors in the world, uranium is enriched to 3 to 5% 235U. Fresh LEU used in research reactors is usually enriched 12% to 19.75% U-235, the latter concentration being used to replace HEU fuels when converting to LEU.

Highly enriched uranium (HEU)

Highly enriched uranium (HEU) has a greater than 20% concentration of 235U or 233U. The fissile uranium in nuclear weapons usually contains 85% or more of 235U known as weapon(s)-grade, though for a crude, inefficient weapon 20% is sufficient (called weapon(s)-usable);[2][3] some argue that even less is sufficient[citation needed], but then the critical mass for unmoderated fast neutrons rapidly increases, approaching infinity at 6%235U.[4] For critical experiments, enrichment of uranium to over 97% has been accomplished.[5]

The very first uranium bomb, Little Boy dropped on Hiroshima in 1945, used 64 kilograms of 80% enriched uranium. Wrapping the weapon's fissile core in a neutron reflector (which is standard on all nuclear explosives) can dramatically reduce the critical mass. Because the core was surrounded by a good neutron reflector, at explosion it comprised almost 2.5 critical masses. Neutron reflectors, compressing the fissile core via implosion, fusion boosting, and "tamping", which slows the expansion of the fissioning core with inertia, allow nuclear weapon designs that use less than what would be one bare-sphere critical mass at normal density. The presence of too much of the 238U isotope inhibits the runaway nuclear chain reaction that is responsible for the weapon's power. The critical mass for 85% highly enriched uranium is about 50 kilograms (110 lb), which at normal density would be a sphere about 17 centimetres (6.7 in) in diameter.

Later US nuclear weapons usually use plutonium-239 in the primary stage, but the secondary stage which is compressed by the primary nuclear explosion often uses HEU with enrichment between 40% and 80%[6] along with the fusion fuel lithium deuteride. For the secondary of a large nuclear weapon, the higher critical mass of less-enriched uranium can be an advantage as it allows the core at explosion time to contain a larger amount of fuel. The 238U is not fissile but still fissionable by fusion neutrons.

HEU is also used in fast neutron reactors, whose cores require about 20% or more of fissile material, as well as in naval reactors, where it often contains at least 50% 235U, but typically does not exceed 90%. The Fermi-1 commercial fast reactor prototype used HEU with 26.5% 235U. Significant quantities of HEU are used in the production of medical isotopes, for example molybdenum-99 for technetium-99m generators.[7]

Yes - 20% and higher falls under the highly enriched category. If you don't agree take it up with the scientists and the IAEA.

Secondly - Has it ever crossed your mind that the Israel is not going to attack routine, along with comments from US and allied nations, might be misdirection? Did you sleep through the last few months where they said attack was imminent, then it was not, then it was, and now its not?

One thing I've always wondered about the Iranian nuclear program. Since we have experts here maybe they can shine a light on it.
Let's assume for this question that Iran has been forth coming and honest. They develop peacefull nuclear energy. They abide by non-profiliation treaty as they are supposed to. Then something goes awry in their region. The withdrawl time is 6 months from that treaty. How long would it take for Iran to develop from completely peacefull energy program to creating nukes?
If the time isn't that long and the efford to switch that big maybe that is the reason they're being constantly haunted for nuclear ambitions?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
One thing I've always wondered about the Iranian nuclear program... How long would it take for Iran to develop from completely peaceful energy program to creating nukes?

If the time isn't that long and the efford to switch that big maybe that is the reason they're being constantly haunted for nuclear ambitions?

PsykoOps the point being missed is that once Iran no longer depends on foreign manufactured Uranium fuel rods there is no monitoring of their use at all. There is no longer any way for the worldwide community to know what is happening ... no way to audit their use. Fuel rods with 20% U235 in a heavy water reactor at Tehran University is precisely what is required to breed Plutonium from waste fuel.
Iran was already doing this in 2004 when a surprise audit by IAEA discovered 600 grams of Plutonium and blew the whistle.

The answer is that there is no cut off from peaceful to military use. Iran has already been using it's existing so called peaceful program to manufacture Plutonium for military purposes.

reply to post by sy.gunson


I agree... To me the sudden warming of Iran to IAEA inspectors, asking them to extend their visit, blocking their access to one of the declared facilities, refusing them access to the country for over a year, request they return at the end of the month, all the while avoiding the issues the inspectors raised that are the source of the problem.

Iran has been defiant on this issues since 2003 and now all of a sudden they want to cooperate... Its one big game of Iran trying to stall for time to get the item they want before the clock runs out for military strikes

As far as your question goes PsykoOps -
Using the info floating around anywhere from now to a year from now. I say now because the uranium they do have can be used as a weapon / dirty bomb.

So in the end it's all could, should, would etc. It's all about how Iran might someday have a nuclear weapon. Nothing about them trying to get one now?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

The concern is Iran's ability to make a nuclear bomb. The concern stems from the centrifuges, which has been at the top of the concern list for years now, and the enrichment level, which is above the level needed for a civilian nuclear program. Their claim for enrichment to the 20% is for medical, yet that application doesn't require 20%

Iran continues to block access to certain site.
They built a secret enrichment location and got caught.
IAEA inspectors located software for nuclear explosion testing.

If their program is peaceful, why continue to to ignore IAEA requirements and inspections? As far as the comment on targeting their facilities. If the IAEA determines they are peaceful and not in violation, what good what it do for the US / Israel to attack it? Opinion would quickly favor the Iranian side since the IAEA report would go against the claims.

edit on 18-2-2012 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

All I see is nonsense and speculation here.

Any country with nuclear power has the ability to make a nuclear bomb. My country has that ability even. My country has invaded another country and bombed another in the past 11 years. Where is the outrage?

I'd like to see some actual proof that Iran has block IAEA from their sites. All I have heard is that the IAEA requested to go into a site at a future time and Iran said no at this time. And quite frankly, I can't exactly blame Iran if they blatently denied IAEA access- IAEA files reports on specific activities in specific locations, US/Israel military strategists use this intelligence to pinpoint targets. Same story for building "secret enrichment" facilities. Do you think Iran should just paint a bullseye on their facilities for hostile airstrikes against them?

What software? You mean those cargo containers that were supposedly designed for testing nuclear explosions (just like the mobile WMD factories in Iraq)?

What good is it for the US/Israel to target facilities determined to be peaceful? Do you think that the US or Israel cares about what the facilities are? They could bomb universities and the media would claim that research facilities are being bombed.

Your comments about enrichment really don't concern me. Enrichment for medical isotopes goes over 20%. Iran isn't going to build unstable nuclear weapons. As much as you like to believe, Iran is not some crazed nation that is bent on obtaining nukes as quickly and unsafely as possible. In fact, Iranians happen to be among top scientists in the world and their scientific ethic would not allow such travesty.