Will Catholics make the Rapture; is it only a Protestant thing?

Originally posted by schadenfreude

Originally posted by troubleshooter
The Rapture doctrine is just another distraction from what Christians are asked to do...

Jesus said to His desciples "...this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matt 24:14)

...but everything else gets proclaimed except the Gospel.

I have to disagree with you slightly here too, but only slightly! I agree the gospel has been watered down ad nauseum, but what has also been watered down is the christians FOCUS. What were the jews looking for in their captivity? A deliverer, right? and where were they to go? the promised land, yes? They lost their focus, and wanted to return to "the world they knew, Egypt".

What is our focus? What is OUR "blessed hope"? Heaven, and our escape is the rapture. Those that are heavenly minded, don't care much for worldly things. Their heart is settled on the one most important to them, Jesus Christ.

Now you can say how the gospel has been watered down, but let me reply, how often have you personally gave the gospel message? (Not judging here) It's stated that only 2% of christians witness their faith to others, 2 percent! That's repugnant. I suggest that if we have a heavenly mindset, then that number would be significantly higher, but alas we're more concerned with attendance and "bake sales" and being politically correct rather than calling out our "brothers" when they mess up. (and most "christians" use the "judge not lest ye be judged" hammer to bludgeon someone to death with.

My only point here is that we do what our hearts are focused on, we make time for what we WANT to do. if we have a heavenly mindset, we act accordingly, we have focus. personally, i think there is a strong correlation between the jews in the wilderness of the exodus, and the christians in the "last days". and considering how biblically ignorant of bible prophecy most of my brothers/sisters are,(not condemning you personally) then that just reinforces my idea of a connection between the exodus and the end of days, and the connection between the two peoples.

Israel is now a secular national identity no different than New Guinea or Venezuela.
Their forebears were once the people of the Lord but only a remnant are now.
The law and the prophets prophecied until John the Baptist and since then the Good News is proclaimed.

The Dispensationalists aka pre-mill rapturists decided that some prophecies were not fulfilled in Messiah but in a future Israel that had rejected their own Messiah. British political will directed by these beliefs resettled Jews in Israel.

It has become increasingly evident to me that redundant Old Testament prophecies have been given new life in the interests of an anti-christ agenda and Christian groups have stupidly preached it for them.

It is a case of forming an interpretation of prophecies and then fulfilling them by political will and manipulated conflict.

The people of the Lord are not represented by any denomination, religious or national group but are one body by their individual and collective union with the Spirit. The Spirit knows who are the Lord's people and His people know who they are. This invisible group includes a remnant of Israel who by faith have recognized their Messiah.

if you were to mention the rapture 200 years ago no one would have any idea what you were talking about. Probably call you a heretic. Much less the early christains ~2000 years ago

Originally posted by tinfoilman

Originally posted by BobAthome
Rumour has it, from the tptb,,is that these ---> SOUNDS

I believe the Bible says the people are the Church not the Building,

I also believe if you believe in Christ that is all you need and then you can blame the confusion on the leaders of the Churches and Jesus will know it was not your fault if you got a few things wrong as long as believed in the Son, even the man next to Jesus on the cross made it to heaven because he believed just before he died, I bet he never had a faith and out from his criminal past and execution Jesus saved him aswell, what more of a message do we need that Jesus will overcome our differences if we just believe.

Yes we need to show at least some good deeds and worship and readings of scripture to stay close throughout life, but I bet on anyone on their deathbed he will save you if you believed, which makes me think it is a pity they put crosses down in hospitals these days as a reminder of his salvation, wonder how many non believers just missed out because the crosses were taken away from the walls as insensative as it may sound.

The Bible says there will be a first ressurection for the believers, so do we think most of the Christian denominations make it? mainly the ones who admit Christ as the Son will, there are Christian sects that deny this.

Revelation 20

The Thousand Years

4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.
_______________________________________

Maybe resurrection is a one off event for all, it does not mean it has to from the rapture either.
If there is a rapture it could mean just before the Devil rules the endtime world to get beievers out of the way first.
_______________________________________

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

People are discovering new things in the Bible all the time, does not mean it is not there, just means we are not always aware of them, it is a bit like prophecy we only know once the olive tree is ripe.

reply to post by daslobo

PS. Catholics do not worship Mary. We only ask her to pray for us. See my post above.

The laity do, but youre the goyim, you get the exoteric teaching. Priests, bishops, cardinals etc. get esoteric Luciferian teachings behind closed doors. Also, praying for the dead and believing you can absolve the sins of the dead is pagan. Wake up dude, if you want to serve Jesus Christ then serve him only, pray only to him and you don't need a priest to absolve you of sins Jesus does that as he is the high priest of the order of Melchisidek. I've seen Popes flash enough masonic symbols with their fingers to send shivers up my spine.

You should look up Walter Veith's videos on Youtube and watch them. He was a catholic but converted to protestant when he realized what he was involved with.

Well, if we Catholics get left behind, we get stuck with all the fun people(fellow Catholics)?
I'm down with that. In fact, will this rapture happen already!?! Geez.
Guess I should pray to some Saints for this....

reply to post by pierregustavetoutant


I would be really dissapointed too, it means if someone or some docrine stood in the way of their salvation and they have to go through the Beast system which will result in some beheading ritual if we don't comply, does not matter it just means they will become saints too once they know.

willl someone who believes in rapture tackle the problem of why the rapture didn't exist in Christian thought before 1870s?

Originally posted by biggmoneyme
willl someone who believes in rapture tackle the problem of why the rapture didn't exist in Christian thought before 1870s?

The history of Christianity is filled with the adding and taking away of certain beliefs based upon the whims of men. This is just adding something new to the mix. Does it make any sense? No but thats organized religion for ya.

Originally posted by The time lord
reply to post by pierregustavetoutant

 

I would be really dissapointed too, it means if someone or some docrine stood in the way of their salvation and they have to go through the Beast system which will result in some beheading ritual if we don't comply, does not matter it just means they will become saints too once they know.

"result in some beheading ritual " seriously wake up and smell the coffee,,
,result in some beheading ritual ,,
ever heard of Shi'a Muslims????? "result in some beheading ritual "

gee sure glad no known religion practices in this day and age,, beheading ritual ,, too deal with its problems,,,

wow.

how asleep does one need too be,,to believe in a resulting,,,,beheading ritual ,, needs to be done,,


ohhhhh sorry just read the "if we don't comply, " part hmmmm
beheading ritual ,,if we don't comply,,, damn i know that one too,, ,its on the tip of my toungue,,

damn guess not,,

lol wow

why are you trying to make religion one more argument, one more war? I am unsure of what you are really doing creating this post, however, I come to believe it is to argue. It is to be obnoxious. It is for no good reason. I am responding merely because I could not understand your point. Your ignorance is far from bliss here.
First of all, as someone stated to you earlier, Catholics do pray to Jesus and God, there is not a fear to do so, AND they do not pray to Mary and saints.
Secondly, rapture? Really? You are asking whom will make the rapture? I can not even believe you are asking for others thoughts on this, you are a lost soul to do this, AND again, I believe you are looking for an argument.
Thirdly, ALL religion is incorrect, it is incorrect to have a religion, it is breaking God down into parts that fit conveniently for you and how you wish others to behave(as in, a man doesn't want his wife to wear make-up, pants, nor cut her hair, because he doesn't want her to look special, capture other men's eye('s) or to look as an equal--then what does this man do? He creates a religion that will prohibit these things and have followers to flow with his thinking), and therefore dreaming up a religion and creating it.
Fourth-ly-baptist do believe the once saved always saved.
Fifth-ly-the bible is written by man, not by God.

Love and Peace.

I went to Catholic schools part of my life. The nuns taught us to love Jesus. To pray to the Father in the name of Jesus. To keep the commandments. I don't recall ever praying to any saints. Today I see people in the church praying to saints, I wouldn't ever do it. I believe in a seventh trumpet rapture, I don't think there's any such thing as a pre-tribulation rapture. For those that do believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, you really should read your Bibles more closely.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
The laity do, but youre the goyim, you get the exoteric teaching. Priests, bishops, cardinals etc. get esoteric Luciferian teachings behind closed doors. Also, praying for the dead and believing you can absolve the sins of the dead is pagan. Wake up dude, if you want to serve Jesus Christ then serve him only, pray only to him and you don't need a priest to absolve you of sins Jesus does that as he is the high priest of the order of Melchisidek. I've seen Popes flash enough masonic symbols with their fingers to send shivers up my spine.

You should look up Walter Veith's videos on Youtube and watch them. He was a catholic but converted to protestant when he realized what he was involved with.

Are Veith's videos the proof of these claims?

Do you have anything else?

BTW, I'm not being snarky, I'm actually going to hop over to YouTube and check out the videos.


Eric

Only persons whose sins are forgiven by God will be taken. Not persons who were forgiven by a man, who is then supposed to get the sins forgiven by God.

Originally posted by The time lord
I believe both will get into a Rapture ....

There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture. That's soul-candy junk food invented by failed Anglican priest Nelson Darby in the mid 1800s. There are PLENTY of threads here that go scripture quote by scripture quote showing that the notion of a 'rapture' is no where to be found in the bible. And in fact the exact opposite is stated. "HE WHO ENDURES TO THE END WILL BE SAVED". (matthew 24:13)

Catholics pray to the Saints and Mary as a way of saying they are not worthy of praying to Jesus,

My God .. :shk: ... it sounds like you've been 'educated' by Jack Chick tracts and ignorant Southern Baptist 'everyone-is-going-to-hell-except-us' preachers. Seriously .... :shk:

Why Catholics Believe in the Intercession of the Saints

Catholics and the Saints

Catholics do NOT worship Saints

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
I see catholic priests having sex with little boys which is not only pedophilia, but homosexuality and fornication too.... . The catholic priests are also drunkards ...They worship Mary as the queen of heaven and make her part of the Trinity

:shk: What a bunch of lies.

1 - Some pedophiles found a good hunting ground in the Catholic church. Guess what, less than 1/10 of 1 % of priests were involved in that. The protestants have the same problem with pedophiles and public schools have an even worse problem.

2 - 'The Catholic Priests are also drunkards"?? Really? All the priests around the world are a just a bunch of drunks? Sure a few are ... there is a percentage of every population that has alcohol problems. But the broad brush stroke that 'The Catholic Priests are also drunkards' is out and out WRONG.

3 - Catholics do NOT worship Mary. That's absolutely wrong. The Catholic catechism states very clearly that worship belongs to God alone. Catholics believe in the intercession of saints, and that if you ask Mary to pray for you to her son ... she will. That's VERY different than believing Mary is God.

4 - Catholcis do NOT believe Mary is part of the Trinity. That's beyond absurd.

I'm a missionary baptist

Oh .. THAT explains it! Seriously dude ... get educated.

TRUE information on what Catholics believe about Mary - the mother of Jesus

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Jesus was talking about a symbolic gesture.

Prove that statement .. where exactly does he say that it is 'symbolic'. Answer - NO WHERE. In fact, Christ Himself says AMEN AMEN, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood you will have no life within you.

(also Pope means "Father" something Jesus forbade any man to call himself)

This junk REALLY gets old. :shk:

Call No Man Father?

The New Testament is filled with examples of and references to spiritual father-son and father-child relationships. Many people are not aware just how common these are, so it is worth quoting some of them here.

Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: "Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ" (1 Cor. 4:17); "To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (1 Tim. 1:2); "To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord" (2 Tim. 1:2).

He also referred to Timothy as his son: "This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare" (1 Tim 1:18); "You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 2:1); "But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospel" (Phil. 2:22).

Paul also referred to other of his converts in this way: "To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior" (Titus 1:4); "I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment" (Philem. 10). None of these men were Paul’s literal, biological sons. Rather, Paul is emphasizing his spiritual fatherhood with them.

More - Call No Man Father?

reply to post by Ittabena

The rapture... Hmm!

So you are saying that the Catholics, who actually put together the canonical Bible deciding which scriptures of the day were to be included and excluded, somehow missed the reference to the rapture that they included in the Bible? I have gone very, very lightly on this topic, but I really think you should read a little more history before you put all your faith in you minister.

I agree, my own extensive studies show me it was the workings of the Holy Roman Church that seized power and Canonized the Bible for evermore, thus sealing their fate as they went about killing and burning in the name of their Gods.

When I lived in the south a co-worker informed me that Catholics worship the devil. She didn't know that I attended Catholic schools all my life and I didn't share this fact with her. Instead I asked her where she heard this - she was a friend. "My minister told me." was the response. I asked her what church she attended. "Baptist" was her reply.

I have lived in the South also. Baptists down here don't like Protestants, who hate Methodists and they all think Catholics are Satan worshippers. BTW, if you live down here and if you are a Wiccan, you are pretty much alone. They all think we worship the Devil. Lots of Atheists though, I even know a few. Also, people down here are not that intelligent, and the religious crowd believes only what the preacher tells them, and nothing else. Most find it hard to read a newspaper, much less research the Bible out like I did. There is a lot of hate down here, and most of it comes right from the Church.

The point of this story is that ministers can stand before their congregations and say anything that they want, and often times do. That doesn't mean it is right. Organized religion is a business. It is for profit. The only religions that are not are a few of the Eastern ones, though China has been doing it's best to squash the best example of this into dust. Remember, a little information is a dangerous thing.

Right on. I have known my share of preachers, in fact, my own brother was one, that is, until he decided one day to research his religion's origins, and then the Bible's origins, and now he is an auto mechanic in a Toyota Dealership in Michigan. I have a preacher that lives right down the road from me. This guy preaches at a pretty small church, but man does he make the money! He has several restored classic cars, and several more waiting on a restoration. Two new SUVs. His wife is the church treasurer. Neither has an outside job in a depressed community. Make me think I am in the wrong business.

Originally posted by schadenfreude
Now those that don't believe in the rapture have pretty much just called God a liar..

WRONG. In your zeal to find an easy way out of tribulations, you've just lied about people and judged them. Two things your God says NOT to do. "All who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted" (2 Timothy 3:12). Looks like YOU are on the side of persecuting those who believe in Christ. Good job. :shk:

Of the non-biblical notion of a 'rapture' - "For a time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having iteching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likeings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths" (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

All through scripture we see that the saints of the old and new testament have been tested and been through tribulations. All through the history of christianity we see christians persecuted, tortured, put to death ...even up to this very day. For some people to mistakenly believe that somehow they are better than all these others and that they will be spared that which the others had to go through .. that's insanely arrogant!

Those who want the madeup easy ticket out of a 'rapture' remind me of the people who watched Christ rise to the sky after he rose from the dead. They stood there looking. The angels had to tell them ... GO BACK TO WORK.

When Christ returns EVERYONE on Earth will see Him, not just a select few 144,000 ... "Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, every one who pierced Him; and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him (Revelation 1:7). He is coming back ONCE ... period ... the end. Not twice - once for the 'select' and once for the rest.

"For as the lightening comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man" (Matthew 24:27) ... EVERYONE will see. Not just a select few.

"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory: and he will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will father His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to another" (Matthew 24:30-31) - So he will come ONE TIME in a public event that everyone will see. No secret rapture before the tribulations.

Christ is VERY clear that his elect will have to undergo tribulation with everyone else. "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be. And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened" (Matthew 24:21-22).

Quote from 'The Rapture Trap" by Paul Thigpen - Page 103

Not the one who is snatched out of tribulation but the one "who endures to the end will be saved (Matthew 23:13 ... see also 12:22). The days of trial are not a time of escape, but rather a time of sifting, proving, and purging, a season of strengthening the faithful and sorting them out from the unfailthful, the wheat from the chaff".

Christians will suffer through the tribulations. There is no pretrib rapture. Scripture affirms this -
Quote from 'The Rapture Trap" by Paul Thigpen - page 117

From every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands" (Revelation 7:9) - St. John had seen them earlier in the vision. He knew they were "the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne", who were 'each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren should be complete who were to be killed as they themselves had been (revelation 6:9-11). But there was more. IN answer to the question, "Whence have they come?" the elder declared: "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (revelation 7:13-14)

and we have Jesus intercession for His followers - "I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that you keep them from the Evil One" John 17:15


NO PRE-TRIB RAPTURE FOR ANYONE

reply to post by Ookie

No Christian sect has ever started a war. Only pagans and pretenders.

Really? Can you defend, or explain, these?

Exploitation for financial gain Christian preachers, particularly from charismatic Pentecostal churches, have become part of the already-rich mix of culture and tradition in Central Africa. In some instances, preachers have reportedly reinforced beliefs about witchcraft for financial gain. Whipping up emotions and charging families for the exorcism of their children, these preachers have turned the suffering of children into a lucrative business. In addition, those accused of witchcraft often face legal challenges. In several countries, witchcraft is regarded as a criminal offense; both children and adults accused of the practice can be convicted to prison sentences.

Source
Evangelical African Churches lead to Rise in children accused of witchcraft

African Children Denounced As "Witches" By Christian Pastors

Rise in African children accused of witchcraft

Christian Parents Biblically Beat Child to Death for Mispronouncing Word

Can you tell me of one war, of even a local war, that was started by Pagans? Can you relate one murder done by a Pagan, one murder down in the name of a Goddess? Blaming your own crimes on a peaceful religious faith will not get you into Heaven, friend.