Found. The tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Found. The tree of knowledge of good and evil.

In the only place it could be found. In the Bible.

I will assume here that those who compiled the books of the Bible knew what they were doing, in terms of giving us a myth with a moral lesson.

God is said to be the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end. Bible God is to be at the top and bottom of any attribute we can think of for God. He is to be our example of the greatest love as well as the greatest hate. After all, he does set the standards of what is good and what is evil.

The Bible tells us not to add or subtract from it and to use it as it’s own judge. If we are to do so then we must judge what is in it as good or evil. FMPOV, the O T shows God’s evil side and the N T shows God’s good side. Most recognize this and this is why the emphasis is on following Jesus and not the barbaric God of the O T. IOW, the O T is the evil side of the tree of knowledge while the N T is the good side of the tree of knowledge.

Many that follow the Bible God recognize this. Literalists and fundamentals do not. They end up venerating the evil side of God, the O T, as well as the good side, Jesus and the N T, when they are supposed to be rejecting the God of evil in the O T.

Literalists and fundamentals can thus be seen as immature thinkers and true sheep. While Christians who recognize the evil in the God of the O T can be seen as better thinkers and able to discern good from evil. Literalist can be seen as poor thinkers who cannot discern evil. They end up with a theology that embraces everything from genocide to infanticide as long as God is doing it. Arguably an immoral position.

This is how literalists and fundamentals all end up hurting their parent religions.

If, as I stated, that the O T of the Bible should be seen as the evil side of the tree of knowledge and God, then the tree of life should be near. I submit that it is also within the Bible but that it has nothing to do with eternal life. Nowhere in the Bible is the great lose of this tree of immortality bemoaned. Yet to many, it is the most important aspect of the Bible. I think we can trust scriptures, when they speak of a tree of life, and only means a good life and not an eternal one.

Literalists and fundamentals thus end up having much work to do on their morals because they are hindered by the notion that they should be embracing and honoring an evil God.

In effect, from a biblical standpoint, they are the Anti-Christ, as they continue to venerate evil.

Who do you follow, the good God of the N T, or the evil God of the O T?

Reading the Bible as I do, and seeing it as containing the tree of knowledge and the tree of life, make this book all inclusive in and of itself and in that way, I am true to the authors and compilers who said not to add or subtract anything from it. It was meant to show a complete story and God and I think that reading it as I do is the only way to understand the full story. God thus become the epitome of both good and evil. As it should be for a God who takes responsibility. Mythically speaking that is.

Regards
DL

So Adam and Eve got in trouble in Eden because they read the Bible?
Did not think it was even written down until later. In any case, it tells their story...so they read about their own future?

So much for free choice if their story was already told.

15 books, known as the Apocrypha, were removed from the English printings of the
King James Bible in 1885 by the Archbishop of Canterbury, leaving 66 books from the original 81.

Soo what was that you said about taking from it or adding to it?

dont follow either.

thought we were living on the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Maybe the fruit of knowledge of good and evil is specifically referring to god himself.

Yin-yang.

Good and evil.

Dark and light.

All satan had to do was tell them god wasn't perfect.

I don't know how people define perfection, but IMHO

god can't be perfect if he doesn't have a flaw.

Perfection isn't perfect.

Light has no meaning without darkness.

There is no Yin without Yang to define it.

Ok, so according to the OP, the God of the old testament is an evil God and the God of the new testament is a good God.
These are my concerns;
1) Isn't Jesus supposed to be the son of God not God himself?
2) If the God of the old testament is evil then what was so evil about creating life?

That would have to mean that life and existence itself is an evil creation?

reply to post by Greatest I am
Ugh...you lose me with the whole "evil god of the old testament" and "good god of the new testament" for a few reasons.

1) Everyone in the new testament acknowledges them as precisely one and the same - they are following through on the story and the exact same god from the old testament, honoring his words, commands, and will, and acknowledging his truth.

2) This completely disregards the reality of the bible itself - there are more examples and testimonies to god's grace in the old testament than in the entire new testament (the NT being a smaller portion of the bible may play into this somewhat), and by volume, more references to the wrath of god in the new testament as pronounced by Jesus and the apostles.

3) To argue for a distinction between "gods" in the old and new testament completely destroys the basis and justification, and hence the validity, of the entire new testament as it is ENTIRELY rooted in and dependent on god and his claims as presented in the old testament.

Very much smacks of gnosticism and claims of the demiurge, etc., with no recognition of the interconnectedness of the bible. If you're going to throw out the bathwater, you have to chuck out the baby as well.

Take care.

In the beginning there was a choice. Tree of knowledge or Tree of life. Tree of knowledge was chosen. Pretty simple. In order to KNOW love you have to KNOW the opposite. Discernment then comes into play.

I don't really think we have to choose an evil God over a good God. He/she/it just is. Look within the life forms and study them and you will come close to "seeing" God...not through the scriptures. Life has been given regardless. Jesus set this record straight in the NT. This was "just" and the "truth" and the "way" for man kinds redemption.

I wonder if there is another Universe where the Tree of Life was chosen. We would all be like little children and not care for knowledge...only Life. Knowledge has many truths and leads to confusion and division.

This of course is just my opinion....I mean really....what do I by myself within myself....KNOW? Nothing and a lot. Good, bad. Positive, negative. Cause and Effect. Light, Dark. Yin and yang?

Two sides of a coin comes from perception of perceiving the coin, but what inspires me to acknowledge anything?

I ponder.............

reply to post by MamaJ

I don't really think we have to choose an evil God over a good God. He/she/it just is.

I think God is both good and evil, IMO.

Originally posted by Greatest I am
Found. The tree of knowledge of good and evil.

In the only place it could be found. In the Bible.

I will assume here that those who compiled the books of the Bible knew what they were doing, in terms of giving us a myth with a moral lesson.

God is said to be the Alpha and the Omega. The beginning and the end. Bible God is to be at the top and bottom of any attribute we can think of for God. He is to be our example of the greatest love as well as the greatest hate. After all, he does set the standards of what is good and what is evil.

The Bible tells us not to add or subtract from it and to use it as it’s own judge. If we are to do so then we must judge what is in it as good or evil. FMPOV, the O T shows God’s evil side and the N T shows God’s good side. Most recognize this and this is why the emphasis is on following Jesus and not the barbaric God of the O T. IOW, the O T is the evil side of the tree of knowledge while the N T is the good side of the tree of knowledge.

Many that follow the Bible God recognize this. Literalists and fundamentals do not. They end up venerating the evil side of God, the O T, as well as the good side, Jesus and the N T, when they are supposed to be rejecting the God of evil in the O T.

Literalists and fundamentals can thus be seen as immature thinkers and true sheep. While Christians who recognize the evil in the God of the O T can be seen as better thinkers and able to discern good from evil. Literalist can be seen as poor thinkers who cannot discern evil. They end up with a theology that embraces everything from genocide to infanticide as long as God is doing it. Arguably an immoral position.

This is how literalists and fundamentals all end up hurting their parent religions.

If, as I stated, that the O T of the Bible should be seen as the evil side of the tree of knowledge and God, then the tree of life should be near. I submit that it is also within the Bible but that it has nothing to do with eternal life. Nowhere in the Bible is the great lose of this tree of immortality bemoaned. Yet to many, it is the most important aspect of the Bible. I think we can trust scriptures, when they speak of a tree of life, and only means a good life and not an eternal one.

Literalists and fundamentals thus end up having much work to do on their morals because they are hindered by the notion that they should be embracing and honoring an evil God.

In effect, from a biblical standpoint, they are the Anti-Christ, as they continue to venerate evil.

Who do you follow, the good God of the N T, or the evil God of the O T?

Reading the Bible as I do, and seeing it as containing the tree of knowledge and the tree of life, make this book all inclusive in and of itself and in that way, I am true to the authors and compilers who said not to add or subtract anything from it. It was meant to show a complete story and God and I think that reading it as I do is the only way to understand the full story. God thus become the epitome of both good and evil. As it should be for a God who takes responsibility. Mythically speaking that is.

Regards
DL

Wow...I can honestly say that no one has ever called me the Anti-Christ before...

Firstly, you start off by telling us the author(s) of the Bible gave us a myth, but then turn around and give us a discourse on a good God and an Evil God...

Secondly, the Old Testament is full of prophecies and foreshadows of the coming redeemer, Jesus Christ, who I assume you are implying is the Good God...

Thirdly, morality is the basis for ALL law...it's what keeps you from being killed, raped, etc...and...morality must first have a standard bearer...that is...it MUST come from somewhere...and if morality was first introduced by this "book of myths", then all law is unfounded...

Fourthly, since archaeology constantly demonstrates a high degree of accuracy in the "literal" historical recordings of people and places, doesn't that pretty much mean this whole world, including yourself, is a myth...

I'll stop there...your premise is ridiculous...but freedom of speech IS considered a "God-Given" right, so have at it...unless you think that, too, is a myth...

reply to post by Greatest I am

Found. The tree of knowledge of good and evil. In the only place it could be found. In the Bible.

I am happy that you found it there, but I could not, and had to look elsewhere. One cannot know truly what Evil is unless that person have experienced Evil first hand. I love how people throw that word around, like they really know. Anyone who has seen combat knows what I am talking about. Anyone who is fully read in to covert government activities knows too.

To find the knowledge, I looked in the other direction, to the Occult Teachings. You see, like I said, to know Evil you have to see it. Those we loosely call "The NWO, The Illuminati, TPTB all practice things we could call evil in nature. They do evil acts in order to be able to operate, and these acts are done on innocent people.

I also looked into FOIA documents.

The FOI Advocate

And other "ways" I will not go into, I learned a great many things. and none of it has a thing to do with the Bible, or Religion.
Here are just a few links to show you what is going on behind the scenes.

The Omega Agency

CIA INTELLIGENCE NETWORKS

The Club of Rome

The Illuminati and The Council on Foreign Relations One-World-Government Conspiracy

Underground Bases

The Tree of Knowledge simply cannot be found in any one book, or in any one place. The knowledge is everywhere, but you have to seek it out, look for it.

reply to post by Praetorius

and by volume, more references to the wrath of god in the new testament as pronounced by Jesus and the apostles.

I might point out that the "wrath of God" is only mentioned 5 times by Jesus... and all references are made in a futuristic tense...

I might also mention that the OT God is much more negative, as opposed to the one Jesus spoke of which mainly had to do with love...

Though keep in mind i am also one that accepts the words of Jesus, and throws the rest of the bible out "with the bath water"

Tree of knowledge is sacred geometry
Tree of life is the philosophers stone

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Ok, so according to the OP, the God of the old testament is an evil God and the God of the new testament is a good God.
These are my concerns;
1) Isn't Jesus supposed to be the son of God not God himself?

Back in Jesus's time "Son of God" was a title for holy men and prophets. He is actually an aspect of God.

2) If the God of the old testament is evil then what was so evil about creating life?

The Gnostics asked that question and were branded heretics for it. The OP does have a gnostic slant as they saw the creator god as evil and as an obstacle for us to reach the good God of truth.

That would have to mean that life and existence itself is an evil creation?

Yes. That's what the Gnostics believed.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Praetorius

 

and by volume, more references to the wrath of god in the new testament as pronounced by Jesus and the apostles.

I might point out that the "wrath of God" is only mentioned 5 times by Jesus... and all references are made in a futuristic tense...

I might also mention that the OT God is much more negative, as opposed to the one Jesus spoke of which mainly had to do with love...

Though keep in mind i am also one that accepts the words of Jesus, and throws the rest of the bible out "with the bath water"

Oh Akragon, please don't make me crawl through the new testament and post all the mentions by Jesus and his disciples of condemnation, judgement, rejection, weeping and gnashing of teeth, burning, perishing, death destruction and the rest.

Granted, the specific phrase "wrath of god" might be limited in appearances, but you should know that even in just the words of Jesus, the rest is there as well.

Take care, friend.

reply to post by Praetorius


Quite true...

But notice all of those he mentioned are simply examples of the rejection of Love

reply to post by Akragon
We could probably debate that at length and dig into it, but I honestly have no desire to do so...we can leave that to any who want to check further into it, I suppose. heh.

Have a good day, and be blessed.

reply to post by Praetorius


Thats a shame honestly, im always interested to hear peoples take on what he taught...

Considering love is an absolute, and that is what he taught... i'd love to see someone try to prove him to be wrong...

Simply because i've yet to find anyone that could do so... including myself...

So be it though

I suppose this isn't the place for it anyways... no need to derail the Op's thread

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Praetorius

 

Thats a shame honestly, im always interested to hear peoples take on what he taught...

Considering love is an absolute, and that is what he taught... i'd love to see someone try to prove him to be wrong...

Simply because i've yet to find anyone that could do so... including myself...

So be it though

I suppose this isn't the place for it anyways... no need to derail the Op's thread

edit on 1-11-2011 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Oh, we may pick it up via other channels or at some other time, but it is also a good thing to remember that love (or at least its expressions, manifestations, and fulfillments) is a subjective thing, to some degree.

Closely tied into justice, as well...just because someone must judge something or hold it accountable does not mean they don't also love it and didn't give it chances to accept certain options...in addition, what tends to be presented as the typical christian understanding of certain new testament matters seems to have its root in the traditions and teachings of men, and not much as the love of god (long story short, in my view, the gift of god is *life*, while the wages of sin is *death*...not some strange conflux and perversion of the two).

reply to post by Praetorius


Yes, perhaps i'll make a thread on the subject one day...

just because someone must judge something or hold it accountable does not mean they don't also love it and didn't give it chances to accept certain options

You can judge whoever you like, though it is to my knowledge... Not our place to judge others. Though christians seem to think they can "judge rightiously"... i disagree.

in addition, what tends to be presented as the typical christian understanding of certain new testament matters seems to have its root in the traditions and teachings of men, and not much as the love of god

Which is where they stumble for the most part... Many follow pauls teachings which again is set as a stumbling block for those who don't see where truth came from...

(long story short, in my view, the gift of god is *life*, while the wages of sin is *death*...not some strange conflux and perversion of the two

Once one understands the concept of love, sin does not come easy... for the reason for "sin" is selfishness...

Love is selflessness... and one that understands this has trouble with being selfish