Found. The tree of knowledge of good and evil.

reply to post by Greatest I am

the O T shows God’s evil side and the N T shows God’s good side

Lol. You have no clue. Yahweh is the Lord. Jesus Christ is the Lord. Yahweh is Jesus Christ's pre-incarnate form and is also referred to many times in the OT as "the angel of the Lord". All the prophets that prophesied about Jesus practically tell you that and people still miss those messages because they have not the Holy Spirit. To call God evil, is to say Jesus Christ is evil. It is all in there, but you have to do your own digging. He revealed to me who he is in his word and i can see his hand in everything. They eyes of a child are the key. The Holy Spirit is the key, if you have not the Holy Spirit you will never see him for who he really is.

Good luck.

Originally posted by new_here
So Adam and Eve got in trouble in Eden because they read the Bible?
Did not think it was even written down until later. In any case, it tells their story...so they read about their own future?

So much for free choice if their story was already told.

Ignore that, he doesn't know what he is talking about. The Torah didn't even come into play until God wrote the law for Moses. The law was the result of the adama and eve partaking of the tree of knowledge which was forbidden to them. The law was not the reason the adama and eve fell because until they had disobeyed God, there were no laws other than to not eat of the forbidden tree of knowledge.

The concept of pre-destination is a lie because it contradicts God's free will covenant with man. Yes God can see the future but he gives all men the chance to repent and accept his free gift the savior Jesus Christ.

reply to post by Akragon

Yes, perhaps i'll make a thread on the subject one day...

I could look forward to that, and hope I might contribute usefully to it.

You can judge whoever you like, though it is to my knowledge... Not our place to judge others. Though christians seem to think they can "judge rightiously"... i disagree.

Well said, and true. Perhaps I should better have phrased that as "he" in light of this discussion, although there are also different degrees to 'judgement' that man may rightfully use (discernment as compared holding in judgement, etc.). Definitely not our place to "judge" others so to speak, as to our own masters do we stand or fall, since none of us are sinless so as to cast the first stone, and all have planks in our own eyes.

Christians, granted, seem to have issues here in large portion - even Paul taught we are only to 'judge' amongst believers within the church so as to help one another stay on the path, and that God judges those 'outside' the faith.

Which is where they stumble for the most part... Many follow pauls teachings which again is set as a stumbling block for those who don't see where truth came from...

A fair point. I find myself more and more often taking issue with Paul's teachings as of late, or at least the way they come across on the surface, as compared to the words of Jesus himself.

Once one understands the concept of love, sin does not come easy... for the reason for "sin" is selfishness...

Love is selflessness... and one that understands this has trouble with being selfish

I can't argue much with that, although I have to admit I still struggle to walk wholly in love at times.

Thanks for your wise responses, as usual. Be well.

The OP may be on dangerous theo-illogical ground. God is most essentially, Love. However, a good case can be made that both good and evil proceed from God. Check out what Moses said to God in Exodus 32:12, "Turn from thy fierce wrath, and repent of this evil against thy people." Yes, God even repents. Back in Genesis, God even repented that He had made man.

If God made the garden, the tree of Life, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, did He not already know good and evil Himself? Of course, He did! However, Goodness is more essential to His character.

reply to post by Lazarus Short


Yes, God did repent and came back here in human form to suffer and to taste death and also be tempted by the power of the prince of this world ...as we are, in order to truly judge man he must walk in his shoes.


I admire that trait

who would acknowledge any God, creator, judge ...who would not at least taste what we must endure.

Love

Originally posted by new_here
So Adam and Eve got in trouble in Eden because they read the Bible?
Did not think it was even written down until later. In any case, it tells their story...so they read about their own future?

So much for free choice if their story was already told.

Free choice? Not from bible God.

You are aware of what happened to A & E the first time they did their will and not God's.
God threw his sissy fit. Free will and autonomy?
What free will and autonomy?

My way or burn forever is hardly a free will. It is a threat from a tyrant.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by overratedpatriotism
15 books, known as the Apocrypha, were removed from the English printings of the
King James Bible in 1885 by the Archbishop of Canterbury, leaving 66 books from the original 81.

Soo what was that you said about taking from it or adding to it?

Exactly.
Note how well Christians follow their own laws and rules.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by JohnySeagull
dont follow either.

thought we were living on the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

In life, yes.

More or less what I get if I read the bible my way.
We are supposed to use the external moral system given in scriptures to our real lives.

Thank the stars we do not. We would all be immoral S O Bs the same way bible God is.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by rbnhd76
Maybe the fruit of knowledge of good and evil is specifically referring to god himself.

Yin-yang.

Good and evil.

Dark and light.

All satan had to do was tell them god wasn't perfect.

I don't know how people define perfection, but IMHO

god can't be perfect if he doesn't have a flaw.

Perfection isn't perfect.

Light has no meaning without darkness.

There is no Yin without Yang to define it.

I like to call us evolving perfection.

You basically have to see that this quote cannot be refuted to see us my way though. Most cannot.

Candide

"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

www.youtube.com...

You have to see your own evolving perfection at all points in time.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Ok, so according to the OP, the God of the old testament is an evil God and the God of the new testament is a good God.
These are my concerns;
1) Isn't Jesus supposed to be the son of God not God himself?
2) If the God of the old testament is evil then what was so evil about creating life?

That would have to mean that life and existence itself is an evil creation?

I agree that the Trinity concept screw things up and if you have a belief in that foolish notion then the O P is without meaning.

It gives a whole different meaning to Jesus' do unto others as he murders us.

As to what bible God thinks of mankind. He has shown how little he revers life as he kill us all over the bible and since many are called and few accepted then we can argue that God does not like his own --- perfect---works.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Ugh...you lose me with the whole "evil god of the old testament" and "good god of the new testament" for a few reasons.

1) Everyone in the new testament acknowledges them as precisely one and the same - they are following through on the story and the exact same god from the old testament, honoring his words, commands, and will, and acknowledging his truth.

2) This completely disregards the reality of the bible itself - there are more examples and testimonies to god's grace in the old testament than in the entire new testament (the NT being a smaller portion of the bible may play into this somewhat), and by volume, more references to the wrath of god in the new testament as pronounced by Jesus and the apostles.

3) To argue for a distinction between "gods" in the old and new testament completely destroys the basis and justification, and hence the validity, of the entire new testament as it is ENTIRELY rooted in and dependent on god and his claims as presented in the old testament.

Very much smacks of gnosticism and claims of the demiurge, etc., with no recognition of the interconnectedness of the bible. If you're going to throw out the bathwater, you have to chuck out the baby as well.

Not necessarily.
Who has more authority in interpreting the O T?
The Jews or the Christians who usurped it?

Remember that the Jews thought Eden where man was elevated while Christians reversed this authoritative view to a fall.
More $$$$$$ in guilt I guess.

This following shows how Jews threw out the baby with the bath water and beheld a new God. So to speak.

www.youtube.com...

This kinda proves that we are addicted to tradition and culture and not to a God or religious creed.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by MamaJ
In the beginning there was a choice. Tree of knowledge or Tree of life. Tree of knowledge was chosen. Pretty simple. In order to KNOW love you have to KNOW the opposite. Discernment then comes into play.

I don't really think we have to choose an evil God over a good God. He/she/it just is. Look within the life forms and study them and you will come close to "seeing" God...not through the scriptures. Life has been given regardless. Jesus set this record straight in the NT. This was "just" and the "truth" and the "way" for man kinds redemption.

I wonder if there is another Universe where the Tree of Life was chosen. We would all be like little children and not care for knowledge...only Life. Knowledge has many truths and leads to confusion and division.

This of course is just my opinion....I mean really....what do I by myself within myself....KNOW?

Nothing and a lot. Good, bad. Positive, negative. Cause and Effect. Light, Dark. Yin and yang?

Two sides of a coin comes from perception of perceiving the coin, but what inspires me to acknowledge anything?

I ponder.............

Yep. Nothing like a life without morals or knowledge of good and evil.
Like cows and pigs.

See what a world like that looks like near a river. Then have the brains to reject it.

www.bing.com...#

Regards
DL

Originally posted by RealAmericanPatriot
[
Fourthly, since archaeology constantly demonstrates a high degree of accuracy in the "literal" historical recordings of people and places, doesn't that pretty much mean this whole world, including yourself, is a myth...

I'll stop there...your premise is ridiculous...but freedom of speech IS considered a "God-Given" right, so have at it...unless you think that, too, is a myth...

A high accuracy that snakes talk human and there are seven headed monsters. Wow.

Archeology has show the exact opposite of your statement.

video.google.com...#

I have more if you need it.

Stop liying to others.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by autowrench

The Tree of Knowledge simply cannot be found in any one book, or in any one place. The knowledge is everywhere, but you have to seek it out, look for it.

I agree. For real life.

That does not take away what I am saying about the imaginary life of the bible.

One would have to be quite a fool to think that the one book will have all the answers.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by LeftySinister

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Ok, so according to the OP, the God of the old testament is an evil God and the God of the new testament is a good God.
These are my concerns;
1) Isn't Jesus supposed to be the son of God not God himself?

Back in Jesus's time "Son of God" was a title for holy men and prophets. He is actually an aspect of God.

2) If the God of the old testament is evil then what was so evil about creating life?

The Gnostics asked that question and were branded heretics for it. The OP does have a gnostic slant as they saw the creator god as evil and as an obstacle for us to reach the good God of truth.

That would have to mean that life and existence itself is an evil creation?

Yes. That's what the Gnostics believed.

Some Gnostic cults did yes.
Most, from what I gather did not.
Most also did not take their own gospels literally and especially the Gnostic Christians who I think were the majority at the time that Constantine bought the church and killed off the competing religions and cults.

Most Gnostics took the Jewish view of their O T and saw Eden as mans elevation and not our fall.

Gnostics believed in the God within so to say that creation was flawed while believing that man was the place where God lives is contrary to them believing in a negative world instead of a positive one.
Most Gnostics saw creation as perfect and argued against the notion of a fall.

Author Elaine Pagels has much good information for those days.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Akragon

"You can judge whoever you like, though it is to my knowledge... Not our place to judge others. Though christians seem to think they can "judge rightiously"... i disagree."

If man did not judge what is good or evil, as shown in this clip, do you think you would like to live there?

www.bing.com...#

If someone raped your wife, would you still think it to not be your place to judge the perpetrator as evil, or would you just not judge and watch?

Regards
DL

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

the O T shows God’s evil side and the N T shows God’s good side

Lol. You have no clue. Yahweh is the Lord. Jesus Christ is the Lord. Yahweh is Jesus Christ's pre-incarnate form and is also referred to many times in the OT as "the angel of the Lord". All the prophets that prophesied about Jesus practically tell you that and people still miss those messages because they have not the Holy Spirit. To call God evil, is to say Jesus Christ is evil. It is all in there, but you have to do your own digging. He revealed to me who he is in his word and i can see his hand in everything.

Wow. You see his hand in murder and rape and you still follow such a SOB.

You are one sick puppy.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Andronian
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Yes, God did repent and came back here in human form to suffer and to taste death and also be tempted by the power of the prince of this world ...as we are, in order to truly judge man he must walk in his shoes.


I admire that trait

who would acknowledge any God, creator, judge ...who would not at least taste what we must endure.

Love

Which begs the question of why God rewarded Satan with the earth if he was peeved at Satan?
Justice delayed is justice denied.

Regards
DL

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Akragon

"You can judge whoever you like, though it is to my knowledge... Not our place to judge others. Though christians seem to think they can "judge rightiously"... i disagree."

If man did not judge what is good or evil, as shown in this clip, do you think you would like to live there?

www.bing.com...#

If someone raped your wife, would you still think it to not be your place to judge the perpetrator as evil, or would you just not judge and watch?

Regards
DL

Why do people always have to throw that at me...

IF i had a wife, said person would have to kill me before that happening. A husband is there to protect his wife.

Theres no need to judge such blatant evil, its quite obvious... and in such extreme circumstances certian rules are thrown out the window... At least for me...

Im not one to stand there and let violence happen, though i will take the responsibility of such actions if someone tried to screw with my friends/family...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by Greatest I am

Originally posted by Akragon

"You can judge whoever you like, though it is to my knowledge... Not our place to judge others. Though christians seem to think they can "judge rightiously"... i disagree."

If man did not judge what is good or evil, as shown in this clip, do you think you would like to live there?

www.bing.com...#

If someone raped your wife, would you still think it to not be your place to judge the perpetrator as evil, or would you just not judge and watch?

Regards
DL

Why do people always have to throw that at me...

IF i had a wife, said person would have to kill me before that happening. A husband is there to protect his wife.

Theres no need to judge such blatant evil, its quite obvious... and in such extreme circumstances certian rules are thrown out the window... At least for me...

Im not one to stand there and let violence happen, though i will take the responsibility of such actions if someone tried to screw with my friends/family...

I'll throw this one at ya: What if your wife was violated by the demiurge. Then, during the height of her PTSD, god sent some of his goons down and convinced your wife that she was never violated and that she was actually still a virgin. Not only that, she was, through divine means, now a pregnant virgin. What Would Joseph Do?