Louis Theroux meets the most hated family in america.

reply to post by coyotepoet

It's a pointless argument. As Louis showed in his documentary. . . Notice how in the show they never actually talk about the Bible in depth and why they believe what they believe.

Much love to you. Louis Theroux's documentary was indeed a BBC masterpiece. So that's why I posted an 80 minute video on the first page of this thread about Shirley Phelps. For 80 minutes she did nothing but talk of the bible in depth and why they believe what they believe. You've got no excuses. Oh and my challenge remains in tact because not one single person on this thread can find any hate whatsoever in the entire 80 minute video.

In the late (did you mean 60's?) their big thing was infiltrating civil rights groups, like MLK's activities despite the Civil Rights Acts of '64 and '65. Counter productive? Perhaps but it happens and has happened for many years. Obviously legality has nothing to do with it.

Yep. Absolutely right. Agreed. So lets be specific with regards to the WBC and psy-op activity:

(1) Are you saying the CIA put them there?

(2) Or did they exist as a Church and the CIA paid them off to be radical?

(3) Or did the media chance upon and demonize them?

Which form of Psy-op is it? If you say 3, then you have to conclude that Louis Theroux's Doc is a part of that Psy-op. So which is it?

Originally posted by DanUKphd
Sure - louis theroux asked the same question about approaching the picket from a different angle in order to win people to their church, Shirley Phelps replied that their purpose isn't to win souls into their church. Now that's crystal clear. It's easy to understand. I just don't know why people think they are trying to win people to their church. They are delivering a message.

I must have misunderstood the mission of Christianity. I thought it was to get people to join.

Let me ask you a question. How do you rationalize Shirley Phelps? I've read all your other posts and you brought up psy-ops. Well I responded to the psy-op charge. In brief, it's a bit counter productive for the CIA to stifle freedom of religion and speech by a Supreme Court ruling that favors freedom of religion and speech. Now that's one hell of a duff psy-op. Don't you think?

The net result of the psy-op (if it is one) is that christians are made to look like complete loons thus increasing the already existing divide in America.

You know whats even more lunatic than the "God hates Fags" signs? Phelps saying "We are the ONLY church that teaches Gods word". Thats a blanket insult to ALL of the MILLIONS of churches there are. That statement right there should actually wake you up to the fact that these are agents of falsehood.

If I were a Christian I wouldnt want to be represented this way.

Ive noticed a lot of atheists lash on to this, using it as a reference of "what religion is like". But thats not what religion is like to most of us.

reply to post by DanUKphd


I have yet to watch that video but am interested in what their theological take is beyond their signs. As for psy-ops I'm not convinced they are, but Skyfloating has some good points: widening the divide and especially the bit about them claiming to be the only church with the truth (even for a religion that has built itself over the centuries with the I'm right, you're wrong dynamic this is extreme.) If it were a psy-ops my take is that it would be to see how many people they could get to buy into something so obviously insane and what characteristics those people would have.

reply to post by Skyfloating

The net result of the psy-op (if it is one) is that christians are made to look like complete loons thus increasing the already existing divide in America.

I agree. They are made to look like loons. So would you say Louis Theroux's doc is a psy-op (if it is one) to stir up anti Christian sentiment amongst unsuspecting TV viewers?

You know whats even more lunatic than the "God hates Fags" signs? Phelps saying "We are the ONLY church that teaches Gods word". Thats a blanket insult to ALL of the MILLIONS of churches there are. That statement right there should actually wake you up to the fact that these are agents of falsehood.

Theroux's Doc was edited to make it look like the Phelps claim to be the only Church teaching Gods word. Do you have any other sources on that? Might be a game changer if that's true. I'd sway towards paid psy-op if they claim to be the only church teaching gods word.

reply to post by coyotepoet

Skyfloating has some good points: widening the divide and especially the bit about them claiming to be the only church with the truth

Yeah thanks I'm trying to find confirmation on their claim. That would change my perspective slightly. Louis's doc looked a bit bodged on that claim, like they edited it to fit their agenda? I edit videos and I know how easy it is to sway opinion using the same techniques that Louis uses.

reply to post by DanUKphd

Yeah thanks I'm trying to find confirmation on their claim. That would change my perspective slightly. Louis's doc looked a bit bodged on that claim, like they edited it to fit their agenda? I edit videos and I know how easy it is to sway opinion using the same techniques that Louis uses.

Michael Moore is the worst at doing that. As far as either of Louis' docs on them, the public perception of Westboro seems to have little to do with his films and more to do with other media (news, etc) presentation of them as well as the expected reaction to their actions aside from media coverage. For the stuff on their philosophy on them being the only church with the truth, that is covered more in Louis' first doc in 2007. This is when he filmed them picketing the local Catholic church and other churches because they are apparently all going to hell too.

reply to post by DanUKphd

Theroux's Doc was edited to make it look like the Phelps claim to be the only Church teaching Gods word. Do you have any other sources on that? Might be a game changer if that's true. I'd sway towards paid psy-op if they claim to be the only church teaching gods word.

Well, this is wiki but here are some more interesting quotes from the Westboro wikipedia page:

The Westboro Baptist Church considers membership in most religious groups, such as the Roman Catholic Church or Islam, as akin to devil worship, and states these other churches to be "Satanic frauds preaching Arminian lies."[50] All non-Christian entities, non-Protestant Christian churches, and all Protestant Christian churches that do not strongly condemn homosexuality are said to be sending their members to Hell.
The WBC describes the Roman Catholic Church as, "the largest, most well-funded and organized pedophile group in the history of man" [55] and goes on to say that, "There are over 1 billion Catholics in the world—that's one out of every six people alive today—and every single one of them will split Hell wide open when they die—period. And there is nothing they can do about it."[54]

Though the main purpose of the Priests Rape Boys website is to criticize Catholicism, the WBC also criticizes several mainline Protestant churches on the website, including Methodists, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Anglicans, and Baptists. The WBC states that..their preachers have shirked their responsibility to tell people the truth about sin, and instead lie to them about what the Lord their God doth require of them. If these lying, false prophets told people the truth about what God says regarding those who suffer sin upon their neighbor (Lev. 19:17–18), there wouldn't be any butts in the seats when the plate got passed. These preachers are not preachers of righteousness, they are teachers having itching ears (2Tim 4:3), and they absolutely count on the abysmal bible illiteracy of their parishioners ... "Priests rape boys" is indeed an air-tight, three word case against all of the mainline "christian" churches – their preachers and members, without exception. They are all going to Hell![56]

I can't argue with the whole Catholic priest pedophile thing too much but to say that every Catholic is going to hell just for being Catholic? Certainly sound like they condemn all of the other Christian churches. Also sounds like it has a heck of a lot to do with homosexuality beyond the use of "Fags" as a broader term. But just in case you didn't get that (this also ties back to Leviticus):

The group bases its work around the belief expressed by its best known slogan and the address of its primary Web site, God Hates Fags, asserting that every tragedy in the world is linked to homosexuality—specifically society's increasing tolerance and acceptance of the so-called homosexual agenda. The group maintains that God hates gays above all other kinds of "sinners"[52] and that homosexuality should be a capital crime.[53] Their views on homosexuality are partially based on teachings found in the Old Testament, specifically Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13, which they interpret to mean that homosexual behavior is detestable, and that homosexuals should be put to death, respectively.[52]

They also wield their protests like blackmail:

The church canceled plans to hold a protest during the memorial [of Christina Greene] at the University of Arizona in exchange for air time on radio talk shows.[43]

On January 15, 2006, Westboro members protested a memorial for 2006 Sago Mine disaster victims, claiming that the mining accident was God's revenge against America for its tolerance of homosexuality.[27]

What did those miners do to incur the wrath of God? They didn't go to war, just helping us meet our energy needs:

They certainly have respect for human life:

On May 14, 2008, two days after the deadly 2008 Sichuan earthquake, WBC issued a press release thanking God for the heavy loss of life in China, and praying "for many more earthquakes to kill many more thousands of impudent and ungrateful Chinese".[49]

You're from the UK right?

On the lead-up to the picket, a number of MPs, lobby groups and LGBT groups appealed to the UK's Home Secretary, Jacqui Smith,[107] requesting these individuals be blocked from entering the UK,[108] on the basis that WBC would be inciting hatred towards LGBT people. On February 18, 2009, two days before the intended picket date, the Home Office announced that Fred Phelps and Shirley Phelps-Roper would be specifically excluded from entering the UK for having "engaged in unacceptable behaviour by inciting hatred against a number of communities", and that "other church members could also be flagged and stopped if they tried to enter Britain".[109][110][111]

The UK government seems to see where the hatred is. After reading this don't you?

As no longer to derail this thread with my psy-op talk I made my own on the theory.

dbl post

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Unity_99

Well I was using "cult" the way I would talk about cia/Laurel Canyon and all the musicians deaths. They are all linked, and yes its like a psy op operation. Exactly what I was thinking, but so many are filled with anger, and hostility, because they've been programmed in actual cults. The mafia mobsters control through horrendous means that break people's psyches and torture, sacrifices.

Ive been thinking about "mind control cult" in regards to them. Them even being allowed to picket like that seems highly unlikely. Phelps saying that they are the ONLY church who spread Gods word is highly unlikely. How insane could you get? I could imagine that the whole westboro baptist church is an artificially engineered mind control experiment, carried out behind the scenes. Its so weird and out there its difficult to imagine people could be like this.

The way I've been connecting dots, this is probably very much a cia operation, and whole families affected. And an agenda, mislead public, possibly, problem/reaction/solution.

reply to post by coyotepoet


I'm beginning to think you're right. Fred Phelps (who I can't stand) did indeed say they are the only Church teaching the word of God (part 6, youtube, First Louis doc). If true then that's a big red flag for me. However, Louis' edit cuts away at key points and then cuts back - that was really crafty editing.

Again, when they asked Steve the same question, (part 7 on youtube) I noticed some camera trickery.

As for the UK government banning them, well, that just makes me think the opposite. The British Government murdered David Kelly to stop the truth getting out about no WMD's in Iraq. UK Gov are less trust worthy than a serial killer IMO. David Icke was banned from various countries.

I'm swaying towards the WBC as a psy-op.

reply to post by DanUKphd


On one hand, love is not always easy and is telling people when they are getting off track or doing something that will ultimately be harmful to them. I grew up in a pentecostal Methodist church with an Assemblies of God youth pastor. We used to go witnessing to various groups, including women outside of an abortion clinic. But it was never done in the same way that Westboro does it. It was "You are making the wrong choice. You are making God cry. You are sinning and could go to hell unless you change your ways, etc" but it was never "God hates you for killing your baby." That's what I meant earlier by it not being what they say but how they say it.

On the other hand, like with the Catholics and "there is nothing they can do about it" there seems to be no room for redemption and redemption is what Jesus is literally all about.

As for your take on UK politics, they are just as dirty as US politics. I can't argue that.

One of the things in the video that got lost in the whole theological debate about their methods is one of the things I found most interesting and nobody has commented on it to this point.

Who was that Asian kid that wanted to join their church? Shirley mentioned that he came to Kansas straight from San Francisco. He obviously wanted to join the church. He was clearly gay. Why did he want to join? Surely they can't have been that convincing. I saw him on the video and was amazed. My first thought-"How self-loathing do you have to be to be a gay man wanting to become a member of Westboro?"

reply to post by coyotepoet

Who was that Asian kid that wanted to join their church? Shirley mentioned that he came to Kansas straight from San Francisco. He obviously wanted to join the church. He was clearly gay. Why did he want to join? Surely they can't have been that convincing. I saw him on the video and was amazed. My first thought-"How self-loathing do you have to be to be a gay man wanting to become a member of Westboro?"

Yep that Chinese lad struck me as being a bit too convenient. Seems really fishy to me that Louis was shadowing the WBC for a couple of weeks and right on cue a very strange convert turns up to join.

About 15 years ago, 1996, Louis Theroux made a documentary about the New World Order. Same style as his doc about America's most hated family. Fascinating because he demonized those believers in exactly the same way as he demonized the WBC.

For 10 years whenever I heard anyone talking about the NWO I just dismissed them as loonies, but Jason Bermas' film "Invisable Empire" really smashed the truth wide open. He's got every world leader on video talking about the NWO, yet Louis Theroux deliberately misled his viewers into thinking the opposite of the truth.

That's why I don't trust Louis.

reply to post by DanUKphd


You mean the one about Survivalists on his Weird Weekend series or something else? I personally like him and his films but it's been a long time since I've seen that one. I'll have to check it out again with a fresh perspective. His whole career he has been doing similar style docs on people with fringe beliefs/ideas. That's his thing.

reply to post by coyotepoet

You mean the one about Survivalists on his Weird Weekend series or something else? I personally like him and his films but it's been a long time since I've seen that one. I'll have to check it out again with a fresh perspective. His whole career he has been doing similar style docs on people with fringe beliefs/ideas. That's his thing.

Start at 5:03 Oh and pay attention to the music near the end "Maniac"

So Christians who believed in the NWO in 1996 were all crazy gun people who evade taxes, live in hay, and want to start war? Louis is a nice guy but he doesn't control the edit. If you were watching in 1996 then you probably got psy-op'd by the BBC!

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by DanUKphd


Point made (though I don't think it was just Christian's but anyone preparing for that eventuality.) Good catch in pointing out the maniac song. You could just write it off to "roller skating music" but the overall message is clear. If you believe in or prepare for the NWO you are a "maniac." Very interesting. Then again, what isn't in the mass media that doesn't try to steer people's perceptions in one direction or another? Thanks for posting the vid.