Wisconsin : FIGHT BACK !

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Worker's have tons of rights. I'm not in a union and have a ton of federal and state's rights. Unions are a redundant waste of bureaucracy, and a union that's paid for by tax dollars should be illegal.

This comment was so dumb, I almost let it be, but I couldnt, since it actually got stars....

So, how do you think you got those workers rights in the first place? From the kindness of the hearts of the factory owners? Or from the UNIONS THAT FOUGHT FOR DECADES TO EARN YOU THOSE RIGHTS?

You are abusing and disrespecting those people that took clubs and boots to the face so you could bitch and moan about how how many awesome rights you have. You might want to edumacate yourself and learn about the history of the union in america.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


This is the fight for lifes, freedom and economic democracy

This is not a fight for union, or a right for a few

this is a CIVIL RIGHT REVOLUTION

Even people who are not in the public sector, are angry

Even the middle class is angry

It is not about the right of union

IT IS THE RIGHT OF ECONOMIC DEMOCRACY

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Why dont you move there then? Keep your socialism or be willing to fight to instill it here cause it aint happening,if anything were gonna cut more socialist programs. Got tea?

Originally posted by nickoli
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

Why dont you move there then? Keep your socialism or be willing to fight to instill it here cause it aint happening,if anything were gonna cut more socialist programs. Got tea?

Obviously you lack the intelligence to get where I was going. I said I dont want a Chinese system.

I dont want to live in China. I want to live in an America that is free and fair for all, not just for those that can manipulate the system for unchecked economic gain.

Are you in the top 1% of wage earners in America (from your posts, I can gather that you are not)? So why are you fighting against your own best interests?

All this "Tea" you want to bring, we have tried it before, about 100 years ago. Capitalism without checks and balances was an unfair, cruel beast, and thats why we made laws in the first place. Theres this thing called history, you might want to look it up.

Do you actually have an argument beyond "Love it or leave it, moron!!"? I didnt think so.

Do you think you are smarter than Einstein? Then refute what he said, which was posted earlier in this thread.

HE WROTE IT 60 YEARS AGO. IT ALL CAME TRUE. WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING TO KEEP YOURSELF POOR?

I look at it this way, NO ONE OWES ME ANYTHING, I am not rich I am middle class at best actually, I struggle to feed my family, Im able to do it at a cost, I give up the luxuries such as cable TV, ordering out, going to the movies, name brand clothing, but I have my home, my little 2002 pt cruiser and I will not take from anyone else or believe anyone owes me a thing, I can but won't accept food stamps or cash from my government, I believe we are what we make ourselves, and yes if I did the right thing I would of went to college and got that degree I wanted so badly but I didnt and now I have to work my way up towards that goal Im sure I would of had at 28 years old, I will do it and I will do it on my own, and it may be hard but atleast I know I didnt cry over it or expect other people to pay for it and I will have my integrity. Nothing is for free, The rich don't owe anyone anything, what money of yours did they steal anyhow?

Originally posted by hapablab
I look at it this way, NO ONE OWES ME ANYTHING, I am not rich I am middle class at best actually, I struggle to feed my family, Im able to do it at a cost, I give up the luxuries such as cable TV, ordering out, going to the movies, name brand clothing, but I have my home, my little 2002 pt cruiser and I will not take from anyone else or believe anyone owes me a thing, I can but won't accept food stamps or cash from my government, I believe we are what we make ourselves, and yes if I did the right thing I would of went to college and got that degree I wanted so badly but I didnt and now I have to work my way up towards that goal Im sure I would of had at 28 years old, I will do it and I will do it on my own, and it may be hard but atleast I know I didnt cry over it or expect other people to pay for it and I will have my integrity. Nothing is for free, The rich don't owe anyone anything, what money of yours did they steal anyhow?

You are the perfect brainwashed slave. You have bought all the crap that makes you believe it is your fault.....the victim believes they caused it.

What money of mine did they steal anyway?? You may have heard of these gigantic corporate bailouts a couple years ago, it was all over....well everywhere. Bush, the conservative president (and followed by Obama), allowed taxpayer money to be given to failing corps run by multi millionaires and billionaires. I mean, there are literally thousands of examples, but this is the biggest, most disgusting one in recent memory. How could you have missed it?

How about oil companies posting record profits for most of the last decade?
Or maybe the outsourcing of american jobs, so they can pay asian workers less than american rates?
How about savings and loan scandals in the 80s?
Confiscation of Gold?
Since 1970, the average joes paycheck has gone DOWN in buying power, while CEOs are making FIVE TIMES what they were in the 1970s.

How can you not understand this?
Maybe you were only paying attention to one side of the story? The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is all over our faces.

I'm not rich nor poor,I just dont agree with socialism okay? The problem we face is due to globalism and being sold out by the elite. I can agree unchecked hyper capitalism is a bad thing I have no problem there.

We are in a tough place right now,I can agree to that too. I dont pretend to have the silver bullet solution,I dont think there is one. I know you cant pay a cashier the same as a doctor and hope to have a functioning society so socialism certainly isnt the answer. Socialized health care will be compromised health care,its that simple.

I also cant agree with the way these unions have acted either. All they were asked to do is pay 12% of their insurance costs and 5% towards their pension,is that too much to ask?

Maybe you can come up with a solution but Canadas medical system isnt a shining example of win either,by far. Its a cruel hard world,and life isnt fair,better get used to it now,its going to get far worse before it gets better.

Im not happy with Walkers decision to not include all state employees including himself in his new plan but thats the way the ball bounces in our republic,elections have consequences. He hasnt done anything the people cant change in the future if they get their party elected.

Or we can have a bloody revolution that will bring about martial law and we can loose all our rights forever,its the peoples choice,I'm just a peon.

Originally posted by nickoli
I know you cant pay a cashier the same as a doctor and hope to have a functioning society so socialism certainly isnt the answer.

That isnt socialism. Thats what you have been told that socialism is. Who told you that? The same people that want you stuck in a rut forever.

Canadas health care system isnt perfect....but why do our seniors go there to buy drugs? because they are sick of being raped by the pharmaceutical companies here in america, a few hours drive away..

If you agree that unchecked capitalism is a bad thing, why are you talking about "enjoying tea"? The Tea Party seems to want to remove all legislation whatsoever regarding business....that is stupid and will set us back 100 years.

Then you say the only way that socialism will only be implemented by force, and basically say "Bring it on", then in your last post you say you dont want a horrible civil war. So which is it?

I just know that it wont be something that will be implemented without a huge fight. I frequent alot of sites,far left, far right,the people are greatly divided and charged up,the future doesnt look pretty.

I stand with the constitution and a republic,I've chosen my side as is my choice.

I'd rather not see a fight,I'd like to force the .gov to keep their frn and make the budget balanced by cutting THEIR programs,THEIR war machine, THEIR salaries and entitlements,THEIR black projects etc. Maybe when we do that we will get back to freedom and liberty because they wont be able to afford their nazi esque domestic spy machines.

Of course they dont want the frn anymore so be prepared for them to kill it too. They want a world currency which will bring about a world gov and the huge war thats coming. Thats the way I see it anyhow.

Originally posted by nickoli

I stand with the constitution and a republic,I've chosen my side as is my choice.

You are aware of the clause of the Constitution that provides for "the general welfare" of the American people right? So how are you so opposed to "entitlements" as you call them?
So do you stand with the Constitution, or with YOUR interpretation of the Constitution and the Republic?

Furthermore, you would like our .gov to KEEP the FRN? The FRN is part of the problem destroying this country. Sounds like you havent been paying attention, usually the TPers talking points include a destruction of the Fed and bringing back a precious metal based currency.

And even furthermore, if you are against wasteful government spending, why do you support large corps and their tax breaks, tax havens, tax shelters, etc? Bank of America got a huge refund last year, how many of the middle class did?

You are all slaves forced to work for the enrichment of a very few people....and you are listening to their propaganda and helping them implement this horror story world.

"NO LAWS ON BUSINESSES! NO WORKERS RIGHTS! " Why are you cheering for that team?

I am aware of that clause and it can be widely interpreted too. I take it generally to mean protect the people from foreign invaders and provide a functioning free and open society.

Look at this in answer to Micheal Moore,heres the forbes top 25 richest Americans.

ank Name Net Worth ($bil) Age Residence Source 1 William Gates III 59.0 51 Medina, WA Microsoft 2 Warren Buffett 52.0 77 Omaha, NE Berkshire Hathaway 3 Sheldon Adelson 28.0 74 Las Vegas, NV casinos, hotels 4 Lawrence Ellison 26.0 63 Redwood City, CA Oracle 5 Sergey Brin 18.5 34 Palo Alto, CA Google 5 Larry Page 18.5 34 San Francisco, CA Google 7 Kirk Kerkorian 18.0 90 Los Angeles, CA investments, casinos 8 Michael Dell 17.2 42 Austin, TX Dell 9 Charles Koch 17.0 71 Wichita, KS oil, commodities 9 David Koch 17.0 67 New York, NY oil, commodities 11 Paul Allen 16.8 54 Mercer Island, WA Microsoft, investments 12 Christy Walton & family 16.3 52 Jackson, WY Wal-Mart inheritance 12 Jim Walton 16.3 59 Bentonville, AR Wal-Mart 12 S Robson Walton 16.3 63 Bentonville, AR Wal-Mart 15 Alice Walton 16.1 58 Fort Worth, TX Wal-Mart 16 Steven Ballmer 15.2 51 Hunts Point, WA Microsoft 17 Abigail Johnson 15.0 45 Boston, MA Fidelity 18 Carl Icahn 14.5 71 New York, NY leveraged buyouts 19 Forrest Mars Jr 14.0 76 McLean, VA candy, pet food 19 Jacqueline Mars 14.0 67 Bedminster, NJ candy, pet food 19 John Mars 14.0 71 Arlington, VA candy, pet food 19 Jack Taylor & family 14.0 85 St Louis, MO Enterprise Rent-A-Car 23 Donald Bren 13.0 75 Newport Beach, CA real estate 24 Anne Cox Chambers 12.6 87 Atlanta, GA Cox Enterprises 25 Michael Bloomberg 11.5 65 New York, NY Bloomberg

www.forbes.com...


Now I didnt take the time to add up the totals of the top 400 but the top 25 werent even worth 1 trillion so I doubt the top 400s entire wealth would begin to make a dent in our problems if you took all their money. See how stupid his argument begins to look? We're in a hell of a fix,it took a long time to get here and it'll take a long time to get out too.

My point is our greatest asset is our liberty and our freedoms even if they're effectively killed by the patriot act,our constitution is all we have to protect these liberties from the wolves,that is why I stand by it,for mine,yours and our childrens rights.

Originally posted by nickoli
I am aware of that clause and it can be widely interpreted too. I take it generally to mean protect the people from foreign invaders and provide a functioning free and open society.

Look at this in answer to Micheal Moore,heres the forbes top 25 richest Americans.

ank Name Net Worth ($bil) Age Residence Source 1 William Gates III 59.0 51 Medina, WA Microsoft 2 Warren Buffett 52.0 77 Omaha, NE Berkshire Hathaway 3 Sheldon Adelson 28.0 74 Las Vegas, NV casinos, hotels 4 Lawrence Ellison 26.0 63 Redwood City, CA Oracle 5 Sergey Brin 18.5 34 Palo Alto, CA Google 5 Larry Page 18.5 34 San Francisco, CA Google 7 Kirk Kerkorian 18.0 90 Los Angeles, CA investments, casinos 8 Michael Dell 17.2 42 Austin, TX Dell 9 Charles Koch 17.0 71 Wichita, KS oil, commodities 9 David Koch 17.0 67 New York, NY oil, commodities 11 Paul Allen 16.8 54 Mercer Island, WA Microsoft, investments 12 Christy Walton & family 16.3 52 Jackson, WY Wal-Mart inheritance 12 Jim Walton 16.3 59 Bentonville, AR Wal-Mart 12 S Robson Walton 16.3 63 Bentonville, AR Wal-Mart 15 Alice Walton 16.1 58 Fort Worth, TX Wal-Mart 16 Steven Ballmer 15.2 51 Hunts Point, WA Microsoft 17 Abigail Johnson 15.0 45 Boston, MA Fidelity 18 Carl Icahn 14.5 71 New York, NY leveraged buyouts 19 Forrest Mars Jr 14.0 76 McLean, VA candy, pet food 19 Jacqueline Mars 14.0 67 Bedminster, NJ candy, pet food 19 John Mars 14.0 71 Arlington, VA candy, pet food 19 Jack Taylor & family 14.0 85 St Louis, MO Enterprise Rent-A-Car 23 Donald Bren 13.0 75 Newport Beach, CA real estate 24 Anne Cox Chambers 12.6 87 Atlanta, GA Cox Enterprises 25 Michael Bloomberg 11.5 65 New York, NY Bloomberg

www.forbes.com...


Now I didnt take the time to add up the totals of the top 400 but the top 25 werent even worth 1 trillion so I doubt the top 400s entire wealth would begin to make a dent in our problems if you took all their money. See how stupid his argument begins to look? We're in a hell of a fix,it took a long time to get here and it'll take a long time to get out too.

My point is our greatest asset is our liberty and our freedoms even if they're effectively killed by the patriot act,our constitution is all we have to protect these liberties from the wolves,that is why I stand by it,for mine,yours and our childrens rights.

The top 10 in that list add up to a a QUARTER OF A TRILLION dollars.....what are you talking about? A quarter of a trillion dollars buys a #LOAD of American jobs.
Look at these people.....alot of them are in OIL and WALMART, two things that helped DESTROY this country. Others are involved in COMPUTERS AND NETWORKING, and their spying allows this evil conundrum to continue.
Do you think it is a coincedence that these guys are filthy rich, and that most of the legislation of the last 20 (if not 50 or 100) years has benefitted THEM and not the COMMON AMERICAN?

I dont even understand how you can argue that 1% of the population holding 95% of the wealth doesnt exist...it is well documented, far beyond micheal moore.

WHY ARE YOU FIGHTING TO KEEP YOURSELF POOR? Where did your opinions come from....did you think about them, or is it something you heard somewhere that sounded good? Really think about it....did someone influence your thoughts on this matter?

Originally posted by nickoli
I am aware of that clause and it can be widely interpreted too. I take it generally to mean protect the people from foreign invaders and provide a functioning free and open society.

And I take it to mean that there should be no hungry or poor children in our country. Who is right? I say both of us. You say "I am."

How can we get anywhere like that? Thats the problem with the Constitution, it is left open to interpretation, and that loophole is what has been used to screw us.

reply to post by aching_knuckles


Actually I can agree with your assesment there shouldnt be,its our solutions to the problem where we may differ. You see I'd repeal nafta immediately I'd impose tarriffs,I'd get rid of illegals thoroughly I'd impose strict stern fines on illegal employers and I'd be very hard on new illegals caught.

I'd drill here drill now,I'd make welfair recipients work if it wasnt more than picking trash up on the side of the road,they could alternate the babysitter job. I'd put America back to work. I'd demand any welfair recipient go on birth control with no extra pay for extra kids. I'd do a hard thorough audit of all social programs we have now. Would you agree to that? Yesterday I went by a hud house,I been noticing it lately,they had a nicer car than I have like a 2008 expedition,well yesterday they had a brand new camaro behind their expedition and it is theirs,is this right? What about cable and internet should people in hud houses have those luxuries on the publics dime?

Alot of what has broke us is our social programs,medicaid,medicare and social security make up the bulk of our budget,whos fault is that? It isnt mine,I've never recieved any but I sure do pay for it.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles

You are the perfect brainwashed slave. You have bought all the crap that makes you believe it is your fault.....the victim believes they caused it.

What money of mine did they steal anyway?? You may have heard of these gigantic corporate bailouts a couple years ago, it was all over....well everywhere. Bush, the conservative president (and followed by Obama), allowed taxpayer money to be given to failing corps run by multi millionaires and billionaires. I mean, there are literally thousands of examples, but this is the biggest, most disgusting one in recent memory. How could you have missed it?

How about oil companies posting record profits for most of the last decade?
Or maybe the outsourcing of american jobs, so they can pay asian workers less than american rates?
How about savings and loan scandals in the 80s?
Confiscation of Gold?
Since 1970, the average joes paycheck has gone DOWN in buying power, while CEOs are making FIVE TIMES what they were in the 1970s.

How can you not understand this?
Maybe you were only paying attention to one side of the story? The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is all over our faces.

edit on 25-3-2011 by aching_knuckles because: (no reason given)

Lord, I almost spewed Dr Pepper all over my puter. Oh, the irony! Do the terms "useful idiot" and "dupe" mean anything to you, Aching?
Because you have surely swallowed the Kool Aid lies and manipulations of your socialist/ commie masters. Those under that heel are the real slaves; people so oppressed that they must give over the fruits of their work automatically without question and may only "have" what the collective tells them they can have. Their very needs are decided and dictated by someone else- utterly removed from them, as if they have no consciousness of themselves or the circumstances of their very own lives.
Beyond the mask (deception) of "benevolence", there is no difference whatsoever between the oppression of the collective "administrators" and that of the mega-corporate state. Not mere corporation, but MEGA corporation- a monolith; an insatiable, greedy construction that sucks the life out of everyone subject to it. The "foundations" and NGOs that portray themselves as existing for the "betterment" of mankind are worse than the BPs and Shell Oils who profess their "concern" for people and the environment. Both are deceivers, but the "benevolents" claim that as their sole reason for being, while the corporations are only trying to C(their)A and go on with their business.

You guys can rave and nag and tie yourselves up in knots trying to suck people in, but it's too late. Too many people see you for what you are and are enlightening others.

More on topic, I used to think pretty highly of Kucinich- to the point that I would have voted for him to be president. The last 3 years has made my severance complete. Maybe it is the "progressive" aspect or maybe it is just finally completely understanding what liberal ideology is all about. I do know that it is deadly to freedom, to every aspect of the US and to our way of life. God Forbid!

Kucinich...Member of The Socialist Party of America.

Wow..you people really know how to pick'em.

People like this... SEIU thugs and other communist that have taken over the unions are only destroying it. I've been in the union and support legitimate causes, but your support on any ground has been knocked down by your radical facade...most likely from the outside...because this is how these Saul Alinsky thugs operate.

You have all the exposure that a person could ever want with the media on your side...The only problem with this is we don't trust the US media...They are anti-American, bias left, hate mungering, agitator's and Instigator's just like your leaders..So you see where you stand with general public. Your losing all support that you ever had.
In other words...Shut the hell up and go back to your $150,000. a year job driving garbage trucks.

You only making a nation wide fool out of yourselves.

# this. Seriously you guys are all being bitches. If the american people should rebel, it shouldn't be over some workers union BS. What the hell guys, other people have to deal with way more #. I live in USA, in a state that doesn't even support unions, think about even your fellow countrymen, on top of that the millions not in the USA, who wouldn't even have thought something like workers unions existed.

Seriously these protesters need to grow up, what the hell people.

Deal with it.

Originally posted by nickoli
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

Actually I can agree with your assesment there shouldnt be,its our solutions to the problem where we may differ. You see I'd repeal nafta immediately I'd impose tarriffs,I'd get rid of illegals thoroughly I'd impose strict stern fines on illegal employers and I'd be very hard on new illegals caught.

I am with you 100%.

Originally posted by nickoli
reply to post by aching_knuckles
I'd drill here drill now,I'd make welfair recipients work if it wasnt more than picking trash up on the side of the road,they could alternate the babysitter job. I'd put America back to work. I'd demand any welfair recipient go on birth control with no extra pay for extra kids. I'd do a hard thorough audit of all social programs we have now. Would you agree to that? Yesterday I went by a hud house,I been noticing it lately,they had a nicer car than I have like a 2008 expedition,well yesterday they had a brand new camaro behind their expedition and it is theirs,is this right? What about cable and internet should people in hud houses have those luxuries on the publics dime?

Alot of what has broke us is our social programs,medicaid,medicare and social security make up the bulk of our budget,whos fault is that? It isnt mine,I've never recieved any but I sure do pay for it.

Well, drilling here worked out great for Gulf of Mexico didnt it? How about just removing our dependence from oil?

If Welfare recipients are forced to work (this would also be against the bill of rights, as it would probably be considered slavery), how do you expect them to find jobs to better themselves? And it seems your "solution" (make welfare recipients work for a fixed wage) sounds pretty communist, something you say you are against. Or are you only against it when it applies to you?

Also, Im so sick of hearing about "They drive better cars than us!", thats the same bull# racist story from decades ago...it used to be "I see them wearing jewelry and fur!", and now the urban legend has changed into "They are buying Range Rovers and Hummers with their welfare checks!". I live in the city, dude. 97% of the cars I see are broke down pieces of crap. No one in the ghetto lines up nice new cars in their driveway, thats like putting a target on your back and your home. Please stop spreading BS info.

Originally posted by DogsDogsDogs
people so oppressed that they must give over the fruits of their work automatically without question and may only "have" what the collective tells them they can have.

Where have I said that I wanted this? This is the problem with people like you, you lie and exaggerate to "prove" what you are saying.

You are trying to defend such a system now! We give the fruits of our labor to the banks and oil monopolies, and we are only allowed to have what they want us to have, in terms of wealth and technology....and people like you are HELPING MAKE IT HAPPEN. WHY?

Originally posted by psychederic
reply to post by aching_knuckles

 

This is the fight for lifes, freedom and economic democracy

This is not a fight for union, or a right for a few

this is a CIVIL RIGHT REVOLUTION

Even people who are not in the public sector, are angry

Even the middle class is angry

It is not about the right of union

IT IS THE RIGHT OF ECONOMIC DEMOCRACY

edit on 25-3-2011 by psychederic because: (no reason given)

Yeah its a civil right revolution for abunch of pussies who don't know what to do with their life if something happens with their job.

Why are we wasting our time rebelling about something as little as this, this is what i don't get, don't encourage these people.

We the people demand the truth, not some get out easy cards.

Why aren't we protesting for answers for 9/11?
Why aren't we asking for answers for the Vietnam war?
Why are we not asking to rid the electoral college?
Why are we not questioning the Federal Reserve?
Why are we not figuring out what is backing up our currency?
Why are we not demanding to not send more troops to Libya?
Why are we not fund raising for the japaneese?
Why are we not out of Iraq?

The list goes on in on, seriously is this crap.