To those of us that at least think its credible that we are being visited by ET. We are all off our

reply to post by MAC269


I understand your point of view. It is basically a healthy agnosticism on the UFO and spiritual matters. Makes sense to me.

As I understand it, the ideas of "the Crossing Point of Light" which Greer always talks about, and in fact his own car's license place is X-Ing Point - or something very similar - what he and others like David Sereda are saying is that the nuts and bolts crafts and their propulsion systems get them to go faster than the speed of light. Therefore you are automatically in another dimension and outside of the physical and visible spectrum. You are essentially nothing but very high energy at this time. When you see a UFO all of a sudden appear or disappear - or you see UFOs in space from Shuttle missions that have very high-tech and expensive cameras that are looking into the Ultraviolet spectrum - you realize that the very nature of these craft and this phenomenon stretches the current boundaries of our 3D conditioning and science.

reply to post by corsair00


Dear corsair00

Yes I am aware that to get here from where ever it must stretch are current boundaries of science.

But for them to be here on the physical plane they must also follow the so called laws of physics. I am also of a mind that would appreciate that our current laws of physics maybe faulty or indeed down right incorrect.

However I do not see that it has to go off into the uuuw, uuuw, spiritual plane.

I even have an answer to the idea that JamesMayorOfJerusalem about calling on the name of Jesus Christ preventing abductions. However he would not like my theory and most certainly most other Christians would not like it either so I will keep it to myself.

I also listened your David Sereda Video and he is on about physics perhaps physics that we do not fully understand but physics all the same.

The spiritual doesn’t come into it at all.

reply to post by MAC269


Yeah, funny story about David Sereda. He has uncovered profound insights into physics and UFOs - AFTER having a UFO sighting as a child. In his dreams - and later he started a daily meditation practice. All of the people with the most insight into this matter seem to have a strong spirituality. I do not find that a coincidence - nor do I see any signs of deception or money-making from people like Sereda. His books are dense and very scientific just as much as they are philosophical and metaphysical.

People like Stan Deyo have also said that 2 lines follow the UFO phenomenon. One is the mythology and the sightings and the alien stuff etc. The other is a series of revelations and epiphanies in the minds of scientists and artists etc that lead them to discover startling and important truths or information that can greatly benefit humanity. That is where this phenomenon crosses into the sociological and spiritual, IMHO.

reply to post by corsair00


Corsair, what I am trying to get across, is that only scientific method has ever gained us any insight into the possibility of life on other worlds in the cosmos. Oh there are countless references in ancient mythologies to star beings, and sky gods and Christ alone knows how many other variations, this is a matter of record of course. However, right here and now, scientists ranging from biologists to spacecraft engineers , are making more positive progress toward definitive evidence for life on other worlds, than all the mewlings of the meditators, and the channelers and the mediums put together. The Kepler space telescope has located myriad worlds , similar to ours in terms of size and orbital distance from thier star, and the atmospheres of some of these planets even have at least the building blocks for life. Rich thick atmospheres over the right sized planet, at the right distance from its star... and that mind you , is just the right condition for life as you and I know it.
And further to this you have the biological discoveries of the last little while , most interesting being the march of life into regions which were once thought uninhabitable for life in general. Extremophile creatures living in circumstances that would mean oblivion for life as far as we knew, but these tiny creatures prove that in terms of our understanding of where life may,and may not occur, we are flawed in the extreme. Up until the discovery of these kinds of life, we thought that certain evironments where absolutely key for all life. We now know that we know NOTHING about the limits of biological fortitude, and I posit that the existance of these creatures greatly widens the veiwpoint of anyone searching for extra terrestrial life, because we could find it in so many more situations and environments than we had previously thought!!
All this progress has literaly been in the last few years. Imagine then , the progress that will have been made in ten, fifteen and twenty years time. I would suggest that the progress down the path to finding complex life in our solar system will be impressive, and will by then have eclipsed the prattlings of lesser methods, in favour of expanding on the already fascinating elements of discovery that I have already outlined.
The effort will happen all the faster, and all the better however, if we support the institutions which do the research, which build , run and maintain the space telescopes, and if we throw our support behind any technology which seeks to get us to the stars sooner rather than later. The cultism surrounding mans search for other life, merely detracts from the subject, and the support base that make all the efforts of science possible. If the search for alien life is ever to become an activity of mainstream science to the point where the entire funding of NASA might be channeled into it, then keeping persons of questionable motives, hoaxers and liars like Greer, Collier , and the rest away from the subject is a must, because no one of sound mind and intelligence would take up a cause championed by such utter morons as those. To do so would be a liability and lead to ridiculous mission launch voice overs apart from anything else. For example "5,4,3,2,1, Lift off, we have lift off of the Mission For Spiritual Awareness, searching for hyperdimensional hybrid entities from beyond the veil between universes" ... This is an unacceptable future for a programe which is already getting good results.

Stephen Hawking looks much more professional when he discloses the possibility of UFO's being manouvered by extraterrestial beings, yet makes scetches of what possible exo-planetary beings might appear like. He'd become uninteresting if he offered something that he cannot present any material for, and imagine the chaos were he to say oh yes there's a huge conspiracy all around you.

People are blinded by their own expectations, they have no personal knowledge yet they discount those who do. They reject evidence because it is not like that they have been programmed to expect. Their aggressive denial soon convinces those who know the truth to keep it to themselves.

Originally posted by debris765njuTheir aggressive denial soon convinces those who know the truth to keep it to themselves.

This is so true, sadly.
The same pattern goes to being a vegetarian; if I was one, I'd not like to admit it in public, because people would label me hippie and not understand the level of sensitivity (understanding) towards violence.

reply to post by MAC269


MAC269 my focus at university is exegesis/hermeneutics, so I'm no religious zealot, plus I've seen a UFO with my own eyes. My faith and experience are too well-planted to be offended by debate, please... what is your view on why the name of Jesus can stop abductions?

reply to post by JamesMayorOfJerusalem

Originally posted by corsair00
You're a Christian - that helps me understand the situation better.
(snip)
You are already able to understand scientific thinking now in combination with your Christian beliefs, so why not go one step further and try to understand a science that could explain how the mind or spirit really works?

Then you might go that extra step and realise that your Christian beliefs were garbage in the first place lol

Originally posted by JamesMayorOfJerusalem
My faith and experience are too well-planted to be offended by debate, please... what is your view on why the name of Jesus can stop abductions?

Your faith is very much planted in the wrong garden sadly for you. I assure you that the name of Jesus can not stop an abduction.

reply to post by Pimander


yeah, 'Pimander' I read the Corpus Hermeticum too, about twenty years ago...you won't stop abductions with that kind of faith, sadly for YOU. lets try to keep this civil, yeah?

reply to post by JamesMayorOfJerusalem

Sorry James, I was completely out of order there. I think I've had one glass of wine too many. That isn't normally my style. I apologise for that bout of rudeness.

Faith is hardly my cup of tea/glass of wine. Of course, that does not mean that spirit/mind are not where I think the answers to any journey of knowledge or self discovery ultimately lie.

reply to post by Pimander


Well, it's interesting to note - on the topic of religion and spirituality and alien abductions - that the infamous Dr. Steven Greer himself has stated that the ability to go into a state of love and compassion and "unbounded mind" allowed him the ability to stave off a MILAB attack.

Perhaps the Jesus Christ idea is somewhat similar? In the end I don't really have a strong position on this particular subject of abductions and demons versus angels etc.

reply to post by Pimander


It happens so that's fine. the idea of resistance through Christ isn't my invention, its the testimony of a lot of people.

www.youtube.com...

www.alienresistance.org...

www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...

theres a point I want to emphasize...these testimonies, as far as I know, are the first examples of any type of self-determined interaction on the part of humans with these entities, as in we act, they respond, rather than they do what they want, when they want, where they want to whoever, and we are left scratching our brains out and never getting closer to understanding, not like Greer and and the Jordan Maxwells peice together for us from their reconditioned thoughts with mystical and obvious crap, but with real understanding. really consider that for a moment....humans acting and them responding. I want to hear MAC269's theory

reply to post by corsair00

I am considering doing some work with alleged contactees (see here). I can't make my mind up how to approach it though. I know how easy it is to be taken for a ride on this subject.

reply to post by TrueBrit


Good points - I see where you're coming from and what you're getting at.

It's interesting to note that the scientific method, and the incredible impact it has had on human history and technological innovation, has very strong roots in the amazing scientific and mathematical revelations of Rene Descartes. I am not sure how many people know this story from Descartes' own auto-biography, but his insights came to him in the wake of three consecutive dreams that he had on November 10, 1619 while in the army and staying the night in the German city of Ulm. Coincidentally, it was this exact same small town where Albert Einstein was born on March 14, 1879. At any rate, Descartes' dream was said by himself to be a vision of the unification of all science.

physics.weber.edu...

Eighteen years would pass before the world would have the details of the grandiose vision and of the "mirabilis sientiae fundamenta"-- the foundations of a marvelous science. Such as he was able to give them, they are contained in the celebrated "Discourse on the Method of Properly Guiding the Reason in the Search of Truth in the Sciences." According to Descartes, his "method" should be applied when knowledge is sought in any scientific field. It consists of (a) accepting only what is so clear in one's own mind as to exclude any doubt, (b) splitting large difficulties into smaller one, (c) arguing from the simple to the complex, and (d) checking, when one is done.

On the subject of studying the mind and meditation, it may seem to be a fruitless endeavor. However, it has already been done in some scientific experiments to measure brain waves of advanced meditators.



It has given science an insight into how the brain works and shown the benefit and practical use of meditation. Most interesting is how the brain waves slow down to the Theta state:

www.meditations-uk.com...

Theta waves (4-8 Hz). Going deeper into relaxation and meditation, you enter the "theta state" where brain activity slows almost to the point of sleep. Theta brings forward heightened receptivity, flashes of dreamlike imagery, inspiration, and,sometimes, your long-forgotten memories. It can also give you a sensation of "floating".

Theta is one of the more elusive and extraordinary realms we can explore. It is also known as the twilight state which we normally only experience fleetingly as we rise up out of the depths of delta upon waking, or drifting off to sleep. In theta, we are in a waking dream, and we are receptive to information beyond our normal conscious awareness. Some people believe that theta meditation awakens intuition and other extrasensory perception skills.

It was this Theta brain wave state that Rene Descartes would have been experiencing when he had his deep epiphany or dream that led to a complete revolution in all of human history. Descartes is not the only example of this. It is extremely common. Even the average person comes up with solutions to their problems in dreams or in the Theta brain waves. It is also the same state of mind where authors, musicians, artists and many other scientists and philosophers have come up with their ideas.

It should also be known that the CIA and the military have actively studied the brain and the mind and developed techniques such as "remote viewing". It is remote viewing that is central to the idea of having the mind leave the body to access information outside of oneself. It is also central to Dr. Steven Greer's work and his CSETI expeditions and the notion of contacting extraterrestrial intelligences and "vectoring" them in mentally or telepathically. He is not alone in these radical pronouncements. People like Major Ed Dames, who works for the military and in private industry on remote viewing, has also claimed to contact UFOs and come up with information about their comings and goings, so to speak. Much of his information on this subject he remains tight-lipped about, but in rare recordings he has revealed that his work has been utilized to come up with the specifics of the technology and propulsion systems of these craft.

This idea of gaining insight into how we, as human beings, can achieve faster than light travel amongst the stars to get off this overcrowded and polluted planet cannot be overstated. It is indeed very important. And it should be known that people like Steven Greer have actually done more to help facilitate this technological and sociological transformation that needs to take place than the average armchair researcher. And certainly more than the average citizen watching TV eight hours a day. He was instrumental in bringing together hundreds of military personnel and government contractors etc. in what is now known as The Disclosure Project. Many rumors fly around about Greer and people love to attack him, but if you actually sit down and read the Disclosure Project material, you will find that it has nothing to do with Greer personally or meditation or space brothers. In the DISCLOSURE book you will find dozens of corroborated testimony on covert anti-gravity and "free energy" technology R&D - which has been fully worked out and is being kept in black projects. The entire effort behind The Disclosure Project and The Orion Project is to get these technologies out to the public. They want to change the geopolitical power structure of the military industrial complex and the oil cartels of the world. There absolutely needs to be a shift in the War Industry in order for our civilization to transition into a united, space-faring global nation.

It must be emphasized that we are not going into space in the typical NASA metal jalopy or rocket. That is archaic and unworkable. Please note that it was in 1969 that we last went to the moon with much fanfare. Not much has happened, in the public eye, since that time - aside from random probes and little discoveries on bacteria etc. Discovering life out in the universe through the Hubble Telescope and all of that work has definitely been revolutionary. But to actually travel to another planet or to try to make contact with another intelligence, it is okay to try to move beyond the old SETI and old NASA paradigms to seek more radical solutions.



www.etheric.com...

reply to post by JamesMayorOfJerusalem


Dear JamesMayorOfJerusalem

From JamesMayorOfJerusalem “I want to hear MAC269's theory”

It is only an idea that I have come up with over the years, that is based on plain logic.

It really would be too long to do justice too just as a reply and perhaps if I feel that I really do want to upset Christians it deserves a thread all on its own.

However this is the basis too it.

Imagine that you are ET, and you stubble apon Earth perhaps 5,000, 10,000, or even 20,000 years ago.

You land in your fiery chariot take a look around and see potential in the beings that appear to rule over nature to some extent.

However as ET you gave up warfare in your own dim and distant past, and you know that the only way these humans are going to make it to a class one civilization is the teachings of a superior being.

You know this because you have seen this all before many times.

So after much debate amongst your people you decide to plant the seed.

It is only a theory but in modern language it can fit the history.

However it will upset the faithful and until they really get on my tits I see no good reason to do that.

In fact I am jealous of there faith I really do wish I had it, as it would make life so much easer.

Originally posted by corsair00
(snip)
And it should be known that people like Steven Greer have actually done more to help facilitate this technological and sociological transformation that needs to take place than the average armchair researcher. And certainly more than the average citizen watching TV eight hours a day. He was instrumental in bringing together hundreds of military personnel and government contractors etc. in what is now known as The Disclosure Project. Many rumors fly around about Greer and people love to attack him, but if you actually sit down and read the Disclosure Project material, you will find that it has nothing to do with Greer personally or meditation or space brothers. In the DISCLOSURE book you will find dozens of corroborated testimony on covert anti-gravity and "free energy" technology R&D - which has been fully worked out and is being kept in black projects. The entire effort behind The Disclosure Project and The Orion Project is to get these technologies out to the public.

Which is why there is a desperate effort to keep the debate about Greer's credibility instead of the content of what was disclosed.

The position of power held by the military-industrial complex rests on our dependence on fuels which they control and on our belief that we need armies to protect us from evils (like the perpetrators of 9/11). If the disclosure project is successful that power ends. People will be empowered. Humanity will take a giant leap forward.

Any members who haven't should read the material and watch the videos for yourself.

The Disclosure Project

Originally posted by JamesMayorOfJerusalem
It happens so that's fine. the idea of resistance through Christ isn't my invention, its the testimony of a lot of people.

I won't get dragged in to this as it's about faith really...

However, what is happening to these people is linked to the power of suggestion and hypnosis. Very religious people with a lot of 'faith' are extremely suggestible. That is how many preachers also appear to perform 'miracles'. It has very little to do with Jesus. Any powerful religious belief can be the vehicle.

reply to post by Pimander



An interesting point...I'd like to know how hindus or muslims fare against the experience. Something to look into