How could anyone possibly take religion seriously?

Originally posted by justamomma
The difference between religion and spirituality is that religion follows after something else blindly. Spiritual seekers follow after self and what makes them feel better regardless of the truth. Both are essentially seeking the same thing. Just one uses something outside itself to "lift them" and the other uses something inside themselves to "lift them."

the Truth seekers follow after the truth w/out being blind and w/out the selfishness. Doesn't matter to them how they perceive themselves or how others perceive them.

umm... i claim no religion but i do think in The Bible it says mans body is Gods temple... i think it means the our spirit, a part of God, is in us. That would make the point of prayer to seek within, right? That also indicates church is not necessary and i do also think it was Jesus that said church is not necessary but implied group prayer is more effective. anyone who doesn't get that knows less than i do about The Bible and i've bearly gotten through Leviticus.
and being a truth seeker does not lift any veil all are more or less blind until union with the divine is achieved ... thus sadly i too am still blind

Originally posted by indifferent
Than I go and speak with people in the medical field and they end up telling me we are simply chemical reactions and they can explain to me down to the molecular level how we work and why. Yes, I admit some things in the world are unexplained, but I truly believe those are simply events that occur that we as human beings simply do not understand yet.

If there is free will, how can God know the future? If he knows the future than it has been determined at an earlier date and free will is an illusion.

How can you be so egocentric to believe that God, of any faith, would create Earth and we would be the only place with life? Have any of you religious people read a science book lately?

For the Christians in the house: It seems to me from reading scripture and speaking to many devout and not-so-devout Christians that homosexuality is somehow a sin.

Any scientist will tell you that you can take any amount of dead cells with all the exact compounds and in-tact cellular structures and not one living cell will be reconstructed. Humpty dumpty cannot be put back together.

You are confusing destiny and fate. Destiny is absolute/final like birth and death. Fate is a result of karma and choices like losing your job because you didn’t call out. Destiny is chosen for us fate is the result or our free will and choice.

When you say God, there is only one, but if you say a god, there are many… and I don’t recall God saying Earth is the only place with life, I think in fact God implies there are many others when Jesus speaks of the landlord sending servants to collect the fruits of the vineyard while the landlord is away… Have you read The Bible and if not how can you criticize something you have almost no understanding of?

My understanding is that it’s a sin because it does not serve God or his intentions, rather it defies God by being nonproductive.

My question is how did sexual reproduction evolved?… it couldn’t have…everything that has purpose was created… you find one living thing without purpose and there you will find evolution and chaos.


[edit on 4-12-2008 by n0tsympl]

reply to post by indifferent


I would like to meet your Doctor friend so he could explain my "FEELING" of GOD to a molecular level. Bet a dollar to a doughnut he couldn't. I won't go into it in this thread or forum but my life changed instantly and drastically and permanently.

Freewill, did Pharaoh have free will? God hardened his heart to not let his people go. Seems God doesn't claim EVERYONE has free will, but for those that do let me say this.

God hated Esau even in the womb before he had done any good or bad, God KNEW what Esau would do because he told the end from the beginning he doesn't MAKE one choose what he does but he knew it before you were born that you would choose it. But this takes faith so I assume you wouldn't know about that from your post...


As for whether I have read a science book lately I would only say this, I have read many but only good ones with real science. No evolutionary theory for me, I already have a belief in the Origins and t seems that neither one of us can prove OUR FAITH. I can't make GOD appear for you and you got no missing links or the answers to all the known laws of Science, yes that ugly word appeared again SCIENCE. Science is OBSERVABLE, REPEATABLE, and PROVABLE. You have a religion you just call yours science, to your own definition of course as we all do.

Good luck to you in your search!

[edit on 12/4/2008 by theindependentjournal]

How could anybody take religion seriously? With such an outlook how can anybody take anything seriously? Religion, our faith, our beliefs, is one of the things that seperates us from lower forms of life.

It amazes me that so many of you guys, men who would argue constantly to defend your beliefs about the existence of new world orders, countless government coverups, a faked 9/11, and aliens being among us, would say all religion is fake. You would state that there is not even the slightest truth in it, which is very ironic coming from men such as yourselves.

Then you would replace religion not with a reasonable view like deism, but with pure atheistic stupidity and blindness! In your ignorance you would shut out all of the possibilities! I must say I am quite dissapointed. I find atheism not only disgusting but incredibly foolish. The "official" Catholic church has been around for many hundreds of years now. We all now how powerful they became and how that has led to some problems with corruption. Yet you don't think they have ever uncovered artifacts that remain hidden from us to this day? Hidden by one of the more unstable Popes in some long forgotten chamber? If these things were found during World War II or other conflicts, who knows where they might have ended up. The Muslims could possibly have some secrets of their own.

reply to post by indifferent



I was atheist until 3 months ago. I am now an on-fire Christian. I understand what you are saying. I don't have a logical answer either. I don't even know why I became Christian. In my mind I just know that it is real. I cannot explain it. The story of Jesus really seems very absurd and not believable. I am really swept away by it because it is so fantastic. All the stories seem to fit nicely together and all point to the Savior as the culmination and fullfillment of all things. There is tremendous symbolism that does seem to foreshadow Jesus life and mission. There is so much man does not know and I personally would prefer to err on the side of caution. Besides, it makes me feel so good.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by indifferent

 

I would like to meet your Doctor friend so he could explain my "FEELING" of GOD to a molecular level. Bet a dollar to a doughnut he couldn't. I won't go into it in this thread or forum but my life changed instantly and drastically and permanently.

Freewill, did Pharaoh have free will? God hardened his heart to not let his people go. Seems God doesn't claim EVERYONE has free will, but for those that do let me say this.

God hated Esau even in the womb before he had done any good or bad, God KNEW what Esau would do because he told the end from the beginning he doesn't MAKE one choose what he does but he knew it before you were born that you would choose it. But this takes faith so I assume you wouldn't know about that from your post...


As for whether I have read a science book lately I would only say this, I have read many but only good ones with real science. No evolutionary theory for me, I already have a belief in the Origins and t seems that neither one of us can prove OUR FAITH. I can't make GOD appear for you and you got no missing links or the answers to all the known laws of Science, yes that ugly word appeared again SCIENCE. Science is OBSERVABLE, REPEATABLE, and PROVABLE. You have a religion you just call yours science, to your own definition of course as we all do.

Good luck to you in your search!

[edit on 12/4/2008 by theindependentjournal]

Actually the scientific basis of religion from an evolutionary basis is well established as a driving factor in social cohesion. Further is has also been established that there exists conditions which bring on religious fanaticism, this is often associated with a knock on the head or epilepsy and is created when a specific area of the brain is damaged.
Both of these point to the reality that all of your thoughts, your memories and mind are simply chemical reactions. Nothing more. Hence all of your emotions, feelings and religious leanings are simply checimical reactions. Hard for you to accept as it undermines your entire thought process, in fact all of reality undermines your entire life, however fantastic for me as I live in the wonderous reality of the here and now, bounded only by the limits of human thought which makes my life real and infinitely more amazing than the mundaneness of your theological approach.

This has been a very interesting thread so far.

Personally I feel much the same as the op does and would ask simillar questions myself.

For me organized religion is nothing more than a control mechanism for the weak minded that follow it. Im sure there is something out there that is way beyond our own realm of understanding but I seriously doubt its what we see as religion today. There are just way too many holes in all of it to those of us who havent been indoctrinated into it in one form or another.

Part of the problem with man in general as an animal and understanding things is that if we dont know the answer to something we generally make something up to cover up the fact that we really have no clue as to what it really is. As a species we want to be the most advanced and most intelligent being in our world and i dont think we could be further from it.

Our own arrogance as a species is truely staggering.

As for the homosexuality comments lets not forget that some religions have been practicing this behind closed doors for a long long time, as such it probably should be part of the whole discussion if its relevant.

reply to post by indifferent


I am so bored with these threads. So I am going to hit it from another viewpoint.

OP, answer me this question.
We observe as humans, the expression and actions of our consciousness in many a manner of manifestations. One of these is the ability to create things, all types of things.
Like the beauty of music.
The curiosity of self reflection via ART.
The wisdom of, and tragedy of poetry.
All from us. Our consciousness. And done so for thousands of years.

Now look at the planet we live on. WOW. That this planet , amonst many other things, inspires the above creations and expressions of our consciousness.

Now with that in mind. How is it stupid that we would reason that a far greater consciousness must exist to account for such mind boggling complexity and beauty that is the universe. That a system of belief that helps people navigate the many mysteries of life would not eventuate to help people with the many abstract matters that concern us, how is that stupid that that would be inspired by such a consciousness, a consciousness logically construed from that which it created. Do you ignore Music and Art and Poetry as just being. Or do you divine some insight and belief from it, say about yourself or the consciousness that expressed? Can you see my point.

Science describes specifics, the nature of matter, the matter of nature. The material. Religion helps many people with things that cannot be specified, that are not absolute and are within a realm beyond the material. IMHO anyway.

Now, if you are going to dismiss a system of belief(and we are not only talking about christianity as most if not all cultures attribute the creation of the universe to a higher consciousness or being) then offer something other than the criticism of it being stupid.

Offer a better system.
One that offers meaning.
One that offers hope.
One that gives a reason.
One that accounts for origins and creation.
One that inspires a vision of spiritual advancement void of the material.
One that lets us re-unite with the creator and those we love.
One that gives us a vision of unity and peace.

As this is amongst some of the reasons people believe. Are these stupid persuits. Is believing that we are something greater than our matter stupid? I would argue that it is natural for us to be like this. Anthropoloically speaking, history shows this behaviour present in all civilizations.

Even though detractors can scream that its a scam, control, and brainwashing, caused wars, blah blah. These same detractor are yet to offer anything other than nihilistic, deterministic post modern nothingness. Now how stupid is that. I mean as a means to dispel religion as mythological mumbo jumbo and stupid, they are offering literally nothing.
And you really think people are stupid enough to take nothing?
Religion gives people something. Get over it!

BTW the paradox you use to show gods all knowing(omniscience) is known as Predestination Paradox. I suggest you investigate this paradox further by looking at the Encyclopedia of Philosophy or just googling Predestination Paradox.
People often think that offering an unaswerable paradox is some how an answer to GOD. It is not. It is cheating the arguement by posing an impossibility. Your proposition makes assumptions. If you wish for me to point these out, let me know.

I follow because God and Christ and the bible are real. Life after death is a big gamable. And the truth is out there, and God will show himself in different ways. You dont have to believe the truth but thats what God gave you anyway. God bless