How could anyone possibly take religion seriously?

reply to post by indifferent

.....I just would like to have a constructive conversation.......

i got no problem with this. but if it is "constructive" conversation that you want, why no come to the table without the belittling remarks. have an open mind, and truly consider the answer some one on the other side of the table might give.

instead, you just sound like this....

Why is it that the more time goes by and the more advanced our technology and thought processes become that religion seems more and more something of the past that is holding us back?......I just do not get it.

they believe what they do because of the sum total of the experiences they have had, has led them to believe whatever they believe. you, have had a whole other sum total of experiences, that has led you to believe what you have chosen to believe in. neither of you will be able to prove either way that either of you are right. so the argument always comes back to a personal experience. for you, and for them. each with a different perspective, and result.





[edit on 3-12-2008 by JSR]

reply to post by DroolsAlot


Why would anyone of any faith hate people due to their sexual orientation?

Its gross? You have got to be kidding me.

I came on this site for mature debate and conversation, not this. I do not subscribe to it myself, but I do not hate the people that do. Nor would I ever. I don't even agree with it, but again this is no reason to hate, or pass legislation against, or restrict the rights of those that do. I brought it up in this thread because it seems to me the people who hate homosexuality, and those that practice it, the most are people who have a religous background, or from the deep south. But this is just my particular experiences so far so I raised the question to a world wide forum, the internet.

Thanks for the reply.

reply to post by JSR


Touche my friend.

Great point. I apologize for the belittling remarks. It seems to me though that the nations as a whole that can separate church and state seem to be better off than us in some regards. I am referring to organized religion mind you for this tread, and I stick by what I said that the more time goes on and the more we as a species are able to explain, that religion seems to be more and more of a anchor than a progression.

Originally posted by indifferent
reply to post by DroolsAlot

 

Why would anyone of any faith hate people due to their sexual orientation?

Its gross? You have got to be kidding me.

I came on this site for mature debate and conversation, not this. I do not subscribe to it myself, but I do not hate the people that do. Nor would I ever. I don't even agree with it, but again this is no reason to hate, or pass legislation against, or restrict the rights of those that do. I brought it up in this thread because it seems to me the people who hate homosexuality, and those that practice it, the most are people who have a religous background, or from the deep south. But this is just my particular experiences so far so I raised the question to a world wide forum, the internet.

Thanks for the reply.

Hey, sorry man, didnt mean to get you all in a tussy, thats just my opinion, I think its gross. And also, I still really dont get where you are going with the post. You didnt anwer my question yet. Are you trying to say that religion is rediculous because it teaches non homosexuality? If so thats cool, i mean, I just think religion is rediculous period. I mean, in the governments eyes, it does a good job of keeping people in check.

Originally posted by indifferent
reply to post by JSR

 

Touche my friend.

Great point. I apologize for the belittling remarks. It seems to me though that the nations as a whole that can separate church and state seem to be better off than us in some regards. I am referring to organized religion mind you for this tread, and I stick by what I said that the more time goes on and the more we as a species are able to explain, that religion seems to be more and more of a anchor than a progression.

I also agree with this.

reply to post by indifferent


than we have entered into a thread drift.

the OP was a question , a "serious" question, about how people can follow or believe in a religion. it seems to have drifted into why religion is holding us back.

i will leave it alone now.

reply to post by DroolsAlot


I'm sorry for thinking you got me in a tussy. I simply mean that religions that I am aware of teach that we are all equal in god's eyes. Whatever god that may be. So if homosexuality is a naturally occurring behavior than why would religion be so against it? Why would god create something that he would want to be hated. My purpose in this thread is to find out peoples' answers to my original questions as to why they believe in their religion without any evidence. I understand faith is faith, and that god can not be proven or the other way around, but what is it that keeps people coming back to god and organized religion when the hypocrisies and atrocities are evident throughout all organized religions.

Im 32 years old. Throughout my childhood, and up untill 15-16 y/old, I was very much into 'church'. I stopped going, and stopped beleiving in so much of it. (slightly confused high school kid i was).

But, having been there/done that, my prespectives on religion frighten even myself. I watched as so called christians would say that all other "unsaved" people, even practicing catholics, were going to hell. (you know, that place of eternal pain and punishment!?!?and fire.. lol) that was about the time that I started realizing how messed up church was. I listened to so many sermons, attended prayer meeting, heard people speak in tounges, it goes on and on and on and on...

FEAR. One of the biggest, easiest, profound way to get peoples attention is to install fear into them. "Hey, you not saved. You dont have Jesus in your heart. That means you going to hell!!!" Then they would explain how bad hell was. Infinite pain and punishment tends to scare people. Now this person is scared. ( which brings me to metion that I have 3 children. and no matter what they do, i could not EVER allow them infinite pain)

GUILT. God sent his ONLY son to DIE for YOU and your SINS!! self explanitory.

GOOSBUMPS. Dont laugh, because it is true. People start praying for you, you start praying, everyone is telling you how your making the right choice for getting saved. Complete strangers are hugging you. End up all goosbumpy, BUT it feels good, and makes you happy.

I could keep going on for hours, but you get the point.
I, BY NO MEANS, am trying to belittle anyone who goes to church or practices whatever religion they happen to be. Im just stating what I saw for YEARS in a church that started out with around 500 people and grew to over 5000 people. My mom still goes to church, and we are very close. I respect her opinion, and she respects mine(tho im pretty sure she thinks im going to hell, lol).

So you ask how anyone could possibly take religion seriously. Its not that hard to do if you searching for something to fill what you think is a void in your life.

reply to post by JSR


I am sorry to see you are leaving the thread alone. You had some great input and some better points. At this point I hope you continue to read and that you may be moved to provide further insight. It can be about anything mentioned in the thread. Any well thought out answers similar to what you have already posted are beneficial in their own way and I mean that sincerely. Thank you for reading and replying in the first place.

Originally posted by indifferent
reply to post by DroolsAlot

 

I'm sorry for thinking you got me in a tussy. I simply mean that religions that I am aware of teach that we are all equal in god's eyes. Whatever god that may be. So if homosexuality is a naturally occurring behavior than why would religion be so against it? Why would god create something that he would want to be hated. My purpose in this thread is to find out peoples' answers to my original questions as to why they believe in their religion without any evidence. I understand faith is faith, and that god can not be proven or the other way around, but what is it that keeps people coming back to god and organized religion when the hypocrisies and atrocities are evident throughout all organized religions.

Who knows ?? Honestly, the only real answer is that people are brought up as little kids thinking that jesus and god are part of their life. All throughout childhood, kids are tought to beleive in Santa, Toothfairy, Easter Bunny, and god. And who knows what they do in other countries, but ya since we were young we were brought up to beleive in stuff thats not real, to control us. If your good, santa will bring you stuff, i mean it all stems from that kind of thing. And im not saying the belief in a god is a bad thing, people are trying to be good, becuase they believe or want to believe that if they are good they will get something in return, which in this case would be heaven or a wonderful afterlife.

reply to post by marcsnothere


Great response. I shared similar experiences about being raised in the church and being shown all kinds of dogma and the practices that come along with that.

As far as guilt goes with the only son being killed for me I would pose this question to believers: That happened 2008 years ago, or about that, so nobody asked me if I wanted him to die for me. It seems as though they have forced that upon me and now I owe some guy named Jesus my life because he died for me before my great great great great great great great grandfather existed! I asked myself these questions at the tender age of 14 and have not looked back since. So I would ask adults who believe that if they really do, and if so doesn't that seem a little unfair that your opinion seems to not matter at all in that particular instance.

I think you nailed it on the head though with the fear and filling a void. I hope that someday we can all see that life can be tough and life can be perfect, but it is the way we act towards each other and the ability to see that tomorrow will come and be a good day. I guess I just want to see a little more optimism and less fear mongering, that goes for main stream media as well, those jerks.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by indifferent]

Originally posted by indifferent
I am asking this question seriously. I have had an infinite amount of conversations with religious people (of all faiths) that can only answer this question with a personal anecdote or story about seeing or feeling something special. Than I go and speak with people in the medical field and they end up telling me we are simply chemical reactions and they can explain to me down to the molecular level how we work and why.

But what they cannot, and will never be able to, tell you is why we work at all, and why we feel that life should make sense.

I'm agnostic, by the way. But I'm realistic about what the so-called hard sciences can and can't tell us. They may eventually be able to point out exactly when some ribose molecules floating around in the plasma first got attached to some amino groups, and from there how we get all the way to humans trying to make Artificial Intelligence.

But they can't tell us why we are.

As far as many of the specific points you ask about in your opening post, as I think you're aware they don't apply to all religions, or even all branches of Christianity. Many, if not most, scientists believe in a god of some sort. There is no necessary contradiction between science and religion, as long as science does the things it's good at (the what and how), and religion does the things it's good at (the why).

reply to post by americandingbat


I failed to ask why. That makes me feel very short-sighted. Great insight. You have provided the topic of my next conversation with those I know in the medical field. See there is hope for this thread after all. At least I am learning something. Thank you very much.

the question the OP asked is easy to answer. People are CONFUSED, as is obvious by this thread... and thus, if they were brought up in religion or shown religion, which in its fundemental teachings gives one meaning, they follow it to feel stability and security (both of which are selfish).

My question would be, does G-d give US meaning or do WE give G-d meaning.

reply to post by justamomma


Great stuff. You are quite insightful on this particular topic and I thank you for you responses.

reply to post by justamomma


The question is, "how could anyone possibly take religion seriously?"

My question is, "how could anyone not take God seriously?"

There's some strange stuff being taught out there. The trick as I see it is to study and find out for yourself what God wants you to do, what his teachings are, and then find a congregation who teaches the Bible, and not some "group-speak" or some charismatic preacher's concept of what the Bible teaches.

If you seek honestly, you will certainly find. I guarantee it.

And if you haven't found it? Well . . .

reply to post by dooper


I do not take any God seriously. The reason for this is that through the course of my studying and conversations I have yet to find a particular belief or system of beliefs that is not contradictory, or hateful in some kind of way, or exclusive to specific types of people, or even one that provides any kind of sufficient explanation as to why we are here, or where are we going (in a non-apocalyptic manner), etc.


My question to you would be what do you mean to infer by stating that those who have not found it "well...."? Can you finish that line of thought for me?

Thanks and great reply.

Originally posted by dooper My question is, "how could anyone not take God seriously?"

Easily answered as well. We don't take Him seriously because we don't seek Him from a truly unselfish heart. As long as you have expectations on what He should be and what He should do for you, there is no serious way to seek Him.

"Not *my* will, but *your* will be done." Is G-d there for YOU or are you there for HIM?

I have had an infinite amount of conversations with religious people (of all faiths) that can only answer this question with a personal anecdote or story about seeing or feeling something special.

I hate to further confirm this concept, but it's the same case with me. I believe in a creator god, and I admit that there is no physical or logical evidence to back this belief up. It is simply a feeling that I have which I cannot seem to shake no matter how I try to rationalize it.

However, I try to steer clear of anthropomorphizing this deity. I like how Pat Condell put it. "Religion is a bit like dressing the invisible man. Once he has some clothes on, you can see him! But of course, you don't see him - you see the clothes. That's the problem. We've become so obsessed with the goddamned clothes that we've forgotten if there was ever anyone there to begin with."

So I don't follow a religion, and as a Deist, I think the best way to get to know god is by studying his creation. This world, this universe, this reality - and the properties of it and how it interacts. Unlike a book or a story or a myth... reality cannot be altered by man. It cannot be suppressed. It does not bend to our editing. It simply is. Knowledge, reason, logic... these are gifts to which mankind has been endowed either by god or by natural processes, but which none-the-less are precious to our understanding of our universe and our place in it.

Studying the natural world and our universe will realistically likely never tell us who exactly god is... but it at can at least better shape our perceptions of god by falsifying made up stories about him. A question that may never be answered, but at least safeguarded against blatantly false answers.

For these reasons, despite a belief in god, I tend to identify and side more with Atheists and Agnostics than most other flavors of Theists.

When you pray do you think your God is listening to you?

I tend not to pray in the traditional sense, but I do often give thanks to god (among many, many others) for what I have in this world. Does he listen? I don't know. He doesn't appear to. However, I find the act of humbling yourself and expressing gratitude for something you appreciate to be a very positive act. Even if I was not giving thanks explicitly to god, I would still want to express my gratitude if for not other reason than affirmation and to keep myself from taking things for granted too often.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by Lasheic]

reply to post by indifferent


don't you wonder how everything began? don't you think there might be something that created the big bang? or evolution? surely people did not come from gorilla's due to the fact that there are still gorilla's around ... and how did we get all of the technical outlays of our body? there is no way we could have adapted that extreme ... there is something higher that is influencing everything and everyone ... people need something to believe in in a world that has very little put their faith in ... i don't know how to explain it this isn't everything too many things going through my head ... there are some things that just aren't explainable by words...

edit to add: if you are a non-believer, what's the worst that could happen for believing? you get let down after you die? big deal you're already dead.

[edit on 3-12-2008 by baseball101]