Socialism is selfish.

Socialism involves taking someone's money without their permission. Taking without asking is an act of selfishness. Taking without asking is an act of greed. Therefore, socialism is selfish.

reply to post by truthquest


you have much to learn grass hopper

much to learn

go read some upton sinclair or actually research socialism and not communism and fascism

there can be alot of factions to socialism

[edit on 6-11-2008 by MurderCityDevil]

Is the OP for real?

No offence, but go and locate the nearest library and open a few books.

You never know you may learn something.

reply to post by MurderCityDevil


Your post contains no information that actually shows how I am wrong. I guess you just made it to insult my education. It failed. I'm not insulted. I'd even add you to my friends list if you could manage to change my mind about something.

reply to post by truthquest


and your information proves your opinion is correct?


like i said

much to learn

To start off, learn that things are in levels of socialism. We have never known capitalism and never will as we will have transcended the model by the time we are ready for it. Learn where you are so you know where to go; it's that simple.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
Is the OP for real?

No offence, but go and locate the nearest library and open a few books.

You never know you may learn something.

How about if we start with the dictionary:

so⋅cial⋅ism
(From dictionary.com) 
 /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.


So lets see, if the dictionary is correct then:
1. Socialism requires the government to take means of production without permission from the owner of the production.
2. Socialism requires the government to take distribution channels without permission of their owners.
3. Socialism requires the government to take capital without the owners permission.
4. Socialism requires the government to take land without the landowners permission.
5. Socialism requires the government to take "etc" without the owners permission.

Taking without permission is selfish.

Socialism involves taking without permission.

Socialism is selfish.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by truthquest]

Originally posted by truthquest
Socialism involves taking someone's money without their permission. Taking without asking is an act of selfishness. Taking without asking is an act of greed. Therefore, socialism is selfish.

TBH, i don't know how you could even use the word 'selfish' in that sentence

It should read "Socialism is social-ish"

Socialism is not selfish.. just unfair to those who work harder than most.



.

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
reply to post by truthquest

 

and your information proves your opinion is correct?


like i said

much to learn

No, my information is evidence that I am correct. Also, stop wasting people's time by repeating the same insult twice. Try other insults perhaps? You still have not changed my mind about socialism being selfish.

It's not selfish to work for a world without crime & poverty. It's not selfish to want better for your own children than you had for yourself. It's not selfish to wish to live a happy and fulfilled life, free from want & debt.

Free market capitalism can't deliver that.

It just can't.

If the OP had his way we'd be back in the dark ages.

[edit on 6/11/08 by Niall197]

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by truthquest
Socialism involves taking someone's money without their permission. Taking without asking is an act of selfishness. Taking without asking is an act of greed. Therefore, socialism is selfish.

TBH, i don't know how you could even use the word 'selfish' in that sentence

It should read "Socialism is social-ish"

Socialism is not selfish.. just unfair to those who work harder than most.

Well you do bring up a good point. Socialism is also forcing your morals on other people. Deciding what is fair is a moral decision. But I believe taking without permission is fundamentally an act of selfishness. Explain to me how it isn't and I'll believe you.

Originally posted by truthquest

Well you do bring up a good point. Socialism is also forcing your morals on other people. Deciding what is fair is a moral decision. But I believe taking without permission is fundamentally an act of selfishness. Explain to me how it isn't and I'll believe you.

I've got you on a technicality.

Selfish = "characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself"

I know what you are saying though.

reply to post by truthquest


Ah, don't let these people get you down, truthquest. Regardless how anyone wants to define socialism, simple fact is it's immoral. Period. I define socialism as slavery! "Leave me and my apple trees alone, commies, and I won't have to fill your hides with lead." Dang pinkos.

Originally posted by Niall197
It's not selfish to work for a world without crime & poverty. It's not selfish to want better for your own children than you had for yourself. It's not selfish to wish to live a happy and fulfilled life, free from want & debt.

Free market capitalism can't deliver that.

It just can't.

If the OP had his way we'd be back in the dark ages.

[edit on 6/11/08 by Niall197]

Niall197, the vast majority of capitalists believe that socialism does not work for a world without crime & proverty.

The majority of capitalists believe that capitalism works toward a world without crime & poverty.

The majority of capitalists believe that capitalism provides a better world for your own children than you had for yourself.

The majority of capitalists believe that capitalism provides a method to live a happy and fulfilled life, free from want & debt.

So in that respect capitalists and socialists would be equally selfish.

However, socialism adds the element of taking without asking, which is fundamentally selfish regardless of its intention.

Originally posted by truthquest
Socialism involves taking someone's money without their permission. Taking without asking is an act of selfishness. Taking without asking is an act of greed. Therefore, socialism is selfish.

So the current system isn't selfish? We are taxed without our permission, and that tax money is spent on whatever the government wants to spend it on. I never agreed to have my tax money spent on a war in Iraq, I never agreed to have my tax money spent on bailing out failed banks, run by rich people who made stupid decisions. In fact, I don't want my tax money spent on a lot of things.

Then here comes the idea of socialized health care, or socialized education, spending our tax money to help out the taxpayers, and all the sudden we have piles of people coming out of nowhere, screaming about it all being selfish and greedy.

God, we must love being useless cogs in a machine.

reply to post by truthquest

Socialism requires the government to take means of production...

No.

See in the definition you posted yourself where it says the whole community?

In Socialism the means of production is controlled by the workers themselves. The means of production is produced by the workers and shared by the workers. To say that model is selfish means you should have also included the definition of 'selfish' in this thread

Adding a level of Government to Socialism that is in control of the means of production makes it no longer Socialism, it becomes a utilitarian dictatorship.

That's funny OP because capitalism exhibits all the same signs only more vigorously.

Originally posted by Dermo

Originally posted by truthquest

Well you do bring up a good point. Socialism is also forcing your morals on other people. Deciding what is fair is a moral decision. But I believe taking without permission is fundamentally an act of selfishness. Explain to me how it isn't and I'll believe you.

I've got you on a technicality.

Selfish = "characterized by or manifesting concern or care only for oneself"

I know what you are saying though.

Okay I've changed my mind:

If a poor person is socialist then they could be socialist because they only care about themself. If a poor person believes they will always be poor and yet are capitalist, then they are very generous. Or, they are selfish because they think capitalism will bring them wealth.

If a rich person is a socialist then they are likely generous. If they are a capitalist then they may or not be selfish and it depends on their motivation.

So at the most fundamental level you cannot say that socialism is less selfish than capitalism because it depends on the motivation of the person who has the ideal. That is what I was trying to say in the first place and just wasn't sure how to say it.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by truthquest]

reply to post by Divinorumus


Ya and capitalism isnt slavery at all is it.......

I like to think the majority of people working do so to provide for their families because of love and....isn't that social....
Why not take it a step further and we provide for our whole species....We are a family, A class of species and need to work as a collective conscious
to reach harmony and begin mass space exploration lol.....

Check this out Canadians

There are two "persons" identified by law

There are two "persons" identified in law. These are "natural-person" and "artificial-person". See Government Tricks for more details.
A natural-person is defined as "A human being that has the capacity for rights and duties". Note that the word capacity means the ability, but not the obligation for rights and duties.

Also the Venus project is The best example I have come across for a world to strive to achieve...

Use technology we have to create an abundance for all.....There's no reason with the current state of our technology to use fossil fuels....or an energy source that would contaminate our environment.

Where we Should be going as a whole.

[edit on 6-11-2008 by GodshipForAll]

First they taxed & drove off the corporations, And I cheered;
Then they taxed & bankrupted the small businesses, And I didn’t say anything;
Then they taxed & drove down the upper middle class, And I started worrying;
Then they came for me, But there was no one left to speak up.