How Jackinthebox got jacked-up by the police

reply to post by BlueRaja

How far is your porch from your neighbor?

Out of sight.

Did the cops come to your porch or did you go to them?

They came to me.

Why if you were armed didn't you go inside and an empty your pockets then?

You mean run and make it look like I'm hiding something?

Why would you throw gasoline on a fire by making a wise crack- I'm not afraid of a few cops, when they are INVESTIGATING a crime scene?

As I already said, probably not the wisest thing to do. But I don't stand for being threatened either. I basically told them to go ahead and do whatever they were going to do. And they did.

...and then wonder why there might be some negative reaction?

I don't have the right to question why I was subjected to assault with a potentially deadly weapon?

Would they have overreacted had you not said that remark?

Probably.

One principle that I try to live by is- life is hard, but it's even harder if you're stupid.

Pretty stupid to try to defend a couple of bad cops.

reply to post by jackinthebox


From your original statement, it didn't sound like they were escalating the situation until after your remark. If I misunderstood that, then I apologize.

reply to post by BlueRaja

From your original statement, it didn't sound like they were escalating the situation until after your remark. If I misunderstood that, then I apologize.

Accepted.

They did indeed begin to escalate the situtation, with words and body language. As I said, I will not stand for intimidation or threats.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by Alxandro

 

If there is a case pending you should really zip it up, unless of course your plan is to create a deliberate excuse to gripe about how THE SYSTEM failed and did you wrong, yet again.

In case you missed it, ATS does offer some level of anonymity and it's not like I'm facing a murder rap.

You don't think this is a legitimate "gripe"?

OK, but for your sake I sure hope the photos you posted are the not the same ones that the Defendant's have.

Yeah, it's legit but it's also another example of some big mouth not knowing when to keep his mouth shut.
Best of luck to you, regardless, and if you get a settlement please stop feeling sorry for yourself.

reply to post by Alxandro

Yeah, it's legit but it's also another example of some big mouth not knowing when to keep his mouth shut.

Is that a threat? Do you happen to have more intimate ties to this case that perhaps we should all be aware of?

Best of luck to you, regardless, and if you get a settlement please stop feeling sorry for yourself.

You must have missed it when I explained why I am not suing. Try reading a little before you post you rhetoric.

Sorry if these are redundent questions jack but I'd like to know a few things.
1. Do you have any witnesses on your behalf and if so have you filed to sue the department?
2. Do you have any photographic evidence of the actual beating?
3. Why did you quit being an officer(fired/quit)?
4. How drunk were you?
5. Has the case against you been put through court already? I know I was arrested for possession of a bit of budha and the court case was done in a month.

We'll start with those, hope to hear back from you soon and by the way I fully support you I've been treated unfairly on quite a few occassions.

reply to post by Lokey13

1. Do you have any witnesses on your behalf and if so have you filed to sue the department?

Two friends saw a part of what happened. Two families saw and heard the enitre ordeal, and are quite impartial.

I will not be suing the department.

2. Do you have any photographic evidence of the actual beating?

The two photos inthe OP are all that I am goint to post.

3. Why did you quit being an officer(fired/quit)?

Layed off due to contract.

4. How drunk were you?

Enough not to drive, but no staggering or slurring.

5. Has the case against you been put through court already?

Still pending, going on a year.

That's were you went wrong. Going outside at 2:00 AM with a few drinks under the belt to speak to the cops. I can understand the urge considering this is what you used to do for a living but you shoulda stayed inside.

Now you know, first hand, how a majority of citizens feel and how we're treated when dealing with the authorities.This is also a reason most people choose not to be a witness or assist in a crime.Who wants to help somebody who abuses their power and treats us citizens like crap.


Anyway, welcome to the club.Do hope you get the best of them though. Good luck.

I have a problem with this :

anyone who knows me, or even had an idea about my size, would know that these two officers certainly would not have come away unscathed had I decided to engage them. Almost a year later, the charges are still pending

I've seen guys most likely bigger and tougher than you go down without so much as a whimper. Just being big doesn't make you indestructible. I'm a big guy too with prior martial arts training, but two cops with access to stun guns beats most cards, right? You were a cop you said. You should know this.

Let me show you how I see it.
You said you were armed and your friend were over, and you had been drinking. I have to be honest, I sense alot...and I do mean ALOT...of Bravado.
You said you joked around with the cops. Was it demeaning towards them? You said "I aint afraid of two cops" or something along that lines, right?
Tag that "Smart Ass"

So, you, a big, macho, drunk and armed Smart ass gets his ass kicked by a few cops he had been heckling?

Do you recall the video of the one black woman who refused to get off the phone, and got tazed for it? Yeah, according to her position, she wasnt doing anything either. She still got tazed and most people enjoyed, and laughed at it. Serves her right.
This isnt much different, but I bet if we had it on camera, we would see you fighting back, at least enough to be pulled in front of a magistrate. I know what its like to get hit with a taser. Your down and out, but only for about 15 seconds, tops. After that, you can throw a fist, or fight back. Are you sure you were a dead fish? You surely didnt paint a picture of a guy who lies there like a dead fish. If you want to blame being tasered, thats good for about 15 seconds.


I have a hard time seeing the cops losing this case, even with your eyewitnesses. Thats what someone gets who acts like an Smart aleck to show off to his friends.

My guess is you were alot more drunk than you thought you were and did alot of things that warranted this. Just my guess.

Originally posted by Alxandro


OK, but for your sake I sure hope the photos you posted are the not the same ones that the Defendant's have.

Yeah, it's legit but it's also another example of some big mouth not knowing when to keep his mouth shut.
Best of luck to you, regardless, and if you get a settlement please stop feeling sorry for yourself.

I find this comment quite rude and intimidating. It almost sounds like you are one of those cops lol.

reply to post by 19DCW71

That's were you went wrong. Going outside at 2:00 AM with a few drinks under the belt to speak to the cops.

True indeed. But also keep in mind, that I have friends in that department as well.

Now you know, first hand, how a majority of citizens feel and how we're treated when dealing with the authorities.

Actually, this is the third time in my life. Twice when I was younger. One of those times I saw how they could have misread my intentions. Perhaps my early motivations for seeing that justice be done properly.

reply to post by kthulu

I'm a big guy too with prior martial arts training, but two cops with access to stun guns beats most cards, right?

Not necessarily. Trust me, officers get hirt plenty. If they had a scratch on them in this case, I would be facing even more charges, which is precisely why I chose to lay there like a dead fish.

You said you were armed and your friend were over, and you had been drinking. I have to be honest, I sense alot...and I do mean ALOT...of Bravado.

Your senses decieve you. I had nothing to prove to my friends or the police.

Was it demeaning towards them?

More like refuting their belligerent intimidation tactics. Not quite how you have it worded really.

So, you, a big, macho, drunk and armed Smart ass gets his ass kicked by a few cops he had been heckling?

Incorrect. You'll have to trust me on this, but the lady across the street would certainly not have come out as a witness if that were the case.

...but I bet if we had it on camera, we would see you fighting back, at least enough to be pulled in front of a magistrate.

Incorrect again. But I will not discuss key evidence further.

You surely didnt paint a picture of a guy who lies there like a dead fish.

I am a guy who knows the drill, and can recognize a non-winning situation. I'm not a Texan and this wasn't the Alamo if you catch my drift.

I have a hard time seeing the cops losing this case, even with your eyewitnesses.

That much I agree with. I have never seen anyone get cleared of such charges.

Thats what someone gets who acts like an Smart aleck to show off to his friends.

That's a pretty ignorant statement in this case.

My guess is you were alot more drunk than you thought you were and did alot of things that warranted this. Just my guess.

And you have guessed wrong.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

I find this comment quite rude and intimidating. It almost sounds like you are one of those cops lol.

How old are you?
I'm sorry if my bluntness offends but I can't sugar coat my questions for the sake of being politically correct.

I can be intimidating as well and say that I was there. Ha, but I live in Texas.
If I sound like I may have been there tells me my assessment of the situation is fairly accurate and also because I already know how predictable Jack can be at times.

Jack, sure sorry to hear about all your troubles. Did they ever figure out who broke the neighbor's window? That was what they were out there for wasn't it? I guess vandalism isn't as exciting as getting the chance to whoop some hiney, though.

Don't hold your breath about getting justice. Cops do protect and serve their own. We had a cop that pulled his gun in a residential area to shoot a snake out of a tree (non-poisonous snake), missed and killed a 5 year old kid that was sitting next to his granddad fishing quite a ways away. Cop got transferred to another department. Kid got transferred to the morgue.

I once had some drunk drama queen try to push her way into my house. I popped her upside the head and she went away. I called the police to report her assault on me and they came out and arrested me. Said they didn't believe my version of the story even though I had a witness and she was trespassing. Being younger, blonder and having bigger boobs made her much more believable. The just us system is not set up for people like me to win, place or show. Just have to realize that cops are not your friend, do not have your best interest at heart and, while there may be some decent ones on the force, you have no guarantee that the decent one will be the one to answer the call.

Best of luck and glad you were able to get a job.

reply to post by Alxandro

If I sound like I may have been there tells me my assessment of the situation is fairly accurate and also because I already know how predictable Jack can be at times.

You don't know JACK!

Would you be willing to go public as to which department did this?

Reason I ask; a lot of records are public. I'm finding what your saying hard to believe although I do believe such incidents happen (rarely).

I am not passing judgment on you on anything but I would like to hear both sides. Again though, you have your right to privacy.


I have dealt with cops before and have been on both their good side and a time or two on their bad. In my opinion the comment you made sounds like the typical anti-cop rhetoric. Now thats no reason for ANYONE to lay a hand on you, be it citizens or officers of the law. But I have an feeling theres more to the story then your telling. Again I may be wrong, but past experience have proven im pretty good at reading these types of situations.


Now a few more questions:

Were you and the officers the same race? Yes, it plays a LARGE factor, black people can be racist too despite popular belief.

Do you have a record or have had any run ins with these guys before?


Again I am NOT passing judgment. Just trying to get more of the story to make a better analysis of things. I find it odd with you being an ex officer such a thing would happen. I also find you being layed off a bit odd as its one of those jobs that rarely does so.

[edit on 3/27/2008 by AndrewTB]

Originally posted by Alxandro

How old are you?
I'm sorry if my bluntness offends but I can't sugar coat my questions for the sake of being politically correct.

I can be intimidating as well and say that I was there. Ha, but I live in Texas.
If I sound like I may have been there tells me my assessment of the situation is fairly accurate and also because I already know how predictable Jack can be at times.

OK, I guess.

Why did you ask how old I am?

There is another point I would like to add to this conversation. Some people seem to be focused on the fact that I didn't bow down and "yes massa" the Man, that somehow I brought this on myself. I would like to see how far you're willing to be pushed before you make some sideways comment.

More importantly, if LEO's expect to be held in higher esteem than the average person, they must hold themselves to a higher standard. If I had been the belligerent in this case, then thay had no business trying to further provoke the situation. It would have been their job to diffuse it, and to bring a lawful and and efficient resolution. Again, if I had been what some have tried to allude a portrayal of, would it really make it any better that the police went over and provoked the town drunk into a fight just so they could get their jollies? I think not.

Furthermore, even if I had made some downright derragatory statement to them, would that have warranted the the use of such force? Try it out. The next time someone flips you off in traffic, you should go right over and beat them with a crow-bar.

But none of these examples are what happened in this case anyway, as I have already clearly stated. Just because some people are unable to accept that a situation like this could occur without first fitting it into their own personal perception-mold, does not change the facts or the evidence.

Thats a pretty thorough questioning your going through.

I'll add two more:

Did you or your friends or someone who was partying with you break your neighbors window?

You have said you wore a "shield" and that you were laid off due to a contract I believe. Were you actually a Police Officer or were you a civilian security guard or similar?

[edit on 3/27/2008 by Blaine91555]

reply to post by AndrewTB

Would you be willing to go public as to which department did this?

Once the case is resolved, I see no reason not to share further details here with ATS members.

I am not passing judgment on you on anything but I would like to hear both sides. Again though, you have your right to privacy.

That is certainly logical, and I would expect nothing less from a "true" ATS member. Again though, I must withold certain details for the time-being.

In my opinion the comment you made sounds like the typical anti-cop rhetoric.

It wasn't quite. I could see how they may have been offended, but only because I had rebuked their psychological intimidation. I was not downright derrogatory, but I feel that my tone left them with the impression that I was not about to accept being bullied.

But I have an feeling theres more to the story then your telling.

To be perfectly honest, I thought the same thing when I came home from jail. I knew I had a few drinks that night, and kept trying to convince myself that I had forgotten something as a result, or that my memory of the even was skewed in some way.

All of that changed when the lady across the street came over to talk to me. She was incensed by what she and her family had seen (as well as other neighbors.) If she had thought that one iota of blame rested upon my shoulders, she would have certainly not been friendly at all toward me after such a disturbance. After all, her youngest even was watching this unfold, and saw a man pummeled by police live in front of her.

She would have run me out of the neighborhood as a "scumbag troublemaker" as she had numerous times before with other people who have come and gone around there. It's a poor section of town, but the people there refuse to be overrun by the elements which have become all too common in other poor sections of town. It is a family neighborhood that is proud to show that people of small means can still be descent folk. And that woman is one tough cookie who don't take you-know-what.

Were you and the officers the same race? Yes, it plays a LARGE factor, black people can be racist too despite popular belief.

Yes. And agreed.

Do you have a record or have had any run ins with these guys before?

Never met these officers personally, but have worked with others in the department. My record has a few dings in it, but nothing that prevented me from getting my shield and license.

I also find you being layed off a bit odd as its one of those jobs that rarely does so.

I was privately contracted to the state.