Japan throws down the gauntlet: 'We want the F-22 Raptor"

If Japan could develop an F-22, they would have done it by now. Why would they seek it if they can do it?

"Hmm, I'm going to spend more money on buying it than making it myself at whatever price I find appropriate to compensate for materials used and R&D."

Well, developing an advanced weapons system as compared to developing an advanced computer entertainment system is totally different. Even though the works of the two are similar, there are differences in the two that separate the US from Japan.

The US has always led the world in Combat systems and technology and for a while the Soviets did too, but as we all know that changed. The Japanese were always better at making life more enjoyable than making life easier to protect.

Shattered OUT...

Japan may be in a rush to modernize its Air Force.

Must keep pace with China's military buildup.

China is spending more every year on mil tech. But just because you build a million crappy apc, tanks, and fighters does not a good army make. Just more targets and lost soldiers when the lights go out.

Despite all the touchie-feelie love you guys get from the Nipponese, I definitely believe that we shouldn't sell any F-22's for at least 10 years after their full deployment by the USAF. I'm still curious however as to why the Navy hasn't been willing to invest in a carrier-borne variant of the F-22? It's not like the Navy to have at the very least an equivalent air-superiority fighter to the USAF's ie the F-14 to the F-15. Even with supercruise, I can't see the Navy letting the USAF fly top cover for them or a marketly better performing fighter without there own version as when both flew the F-4 Phantom II.

There are many reasons. There was talk years ago about a navilized F-117. Several of the reasons to not buy the F-117 for carrier ops apply to the F-22 as well.

1. They'd have to modify them and make them much heavier. They need very strong reinforced landing gear for slamming into the carrier deck.

2. RAM is much more difficult to maintain in a salt environment. Corrosion is much more prevalent on carrier aircraft.

3. The weapons loadout is too small. You have a limited number of aircraft on a flight deck so you want to be able to pack as many weapons on them as you can.

Did the F-14 carry that much more than the F-15?

I've heard the USN is interested in jump jet F-35's.

Personally, I don't think I have any objections to Japan having the Raptor, albeit the watered-down version. Japan is one of America's greatest allies. George W. Bush himself said that "America and Japan have been developing a great bond for a century now...". He kind of missed the whole World War II thing in the middle there, but the point remains; you're pals now. If anyone is going to get the Raptor, it should be Japan. Who else do you know is capable of a) generating enough public interest, b) affording the buggers, and c) keeping up with the ability to maintain the aircraft? I don't know the yearly price tag for a Raptor, but I sure wouldn't want to be paying the taxes on it, let alone the maintenance. You know, I wouldn't want to be paying taxes at all, but never mind that.

Anyway. Rant over.

Originally posted by SteveR
Did the F-14 carry that much more than the F-15?

I've heard the USN is interested in jump jet F-35's.

The F-14 was purpose built to carry the AIM-54 Phoenix after the F-111B proved to be too heavy and have too many design problems. If it wasn't for the need for the Phoenix we might not have had the F-14. From what I remember the USN wants the CV version of the F-35. The USMC and the RAF are getting the STOVL versions of the F-35, which are the vertical takeoff birds.

The F14 was even designed to do high speed interceptions with the phoenix. Thats also why im quite sure that it would be the best fast attack plane if it ever was fully converted to that.

Do you ever think Tomcats (and other 4th gen jets) will be available for private ownership (demilitarized but flying)?

This would be pretty amazing, but I've yet to see it happen to ex-U.S. fighter jets.

I doubt it. You might get sold an airframe, but thats probably it.

The first thing the US government would do is strip its weapons suite.
The second thing the US government would do is strip the avionics.
The third thing the US government would do is strip the engines.

If you can manage to get your hands on some engines and a good avionic package than you're set. But thats probably next to impossible these days.

Originally posted by BlackWidow23

If you can manage to get your hands on some engines and a good avionic package than you're set. But thats probably next to impossible these days.

I doubt it is impossible, just expensive. Enthusiasts are putting together an Avro Vulcan, which has been out of service for many years. The only thing slowing them down is funding. The parts can either be bought, substituted or, if simple enough, manufactured to order.

Well, how are you going to integrate alternative engines and avionics into a plane like the tomcat, and calibrate it all to fly correctly? Sounds like a task requiring people from NG.

Originally posted by SteveR
Well, how are you going to integrate alternative engines and avionics into a plane like the tomcat, and calibrate it all to fly correctly? Sounds like a task requiring people from NG.

Not too sure on the Tomcat (I'm not even sure they would strip it as much as what was mentioned above), but in reference to my mentioning of the Vulcan, alot of the guys working to restore one to flying status used to be RAF mech's or used to work for the company that built the beasty, so they know the bird inside out anyway.

Originally posted by stumason
(I'm not even sure they would strip it as much as what was mentioned above)

Usually I'd agree, but with the Iran scare that puts a new spin on things.

Originally posted by stumasonalot of the guys working to restore one to flying status used to be RAF mech's or used to work for the company that built the beasty, so they know the bird inside out anyway.

Cool, I imagined so. You know this project personally?

BTW, there are some faster rides out there for sale.

www.controller.com...

www.pilotmarket.com...

Those engines...they just arent readily available. You cant just call up the manufacturer and say that you want to buy some engines...it takes a huge amount of backround check, liscences, not to mention the papers needed to own a working interceptor, and on top of that the requirements for flying something like that arent easy to reach.

Than there is maintenence, I dont think parts will be made for it much longer, after Iran gets rid of theirs there will be no one left to fly it. That means if something goes wrong, there is no market to replace a part especially engines wich wont last forever either. With the 20+ hours of work that goes into the thing for every flight hour, I would bet that it would not stay airworthy long.

Display? Sure. If I had that kind of money it would be the first aircraft I bought.

Originally posted by stumason
I doubt it is impossible, just expensive. Enthusiasts are putting together an Avro Vulcan, which has been out of service for many years. The only thing slowing them down is funding. The parts can either be bought, substituted or, if simple enough, manufactured to order.

From what I've seen the UK's MOD is much less hostile to warbird enthusiasts that the US DOD. There seem to be quite a few relatively modern RAF & FAA jets in private hands, wheras the most modern US jets I know of that are privately owned are a T-38, an F-104, and a couple of F-86 Sabres.

isn't this the Japanese Raptor concept/wannabe?



found here on this thread

has this plane been identified?

Originally posted by SteveR
Do you ever think Tomcats (and other 4th gen jets) will be available for private ownership (demilitarized but flying)?

never, in fact they even recalled some sent to museums. The concern is spare parts finding its way to Iran to help thier fleet of F-14's. I doubt ANY will ever be sold into private hands and few if any will get into museums unless its all gutted and all you have is a frame.

I THINK that's a mockup of what the F-3 may be. They're looking to replace the F-15Js with it. I found the picture of it, and I know it's at JDA-TRDI, but the only explanation I can find, besides some drawings of the F-3 is "High Movement Flight Regulation System".

[edit on 4/26/2007 by Zaphod58]