Japan throws down the gauntlet: 'We want the F-22 Raptor"

thanks!!

did a couple of searches based on Zaphod's info and found this


ImageShack

a poster (teutateswolf-n) from this forum says its a photo of a "Shinshin" ATD-X model. anyone here who has more info on this?


[edit on 26-4-2007 by toreishi]

I haven't found much information on it, but there was a scaled down model that was supposed to fly last year. The full scale ATD-X is supposed to fly in 2011, and will have all the goodies. 3-D Thrust vectoring, low RCS, etc.

so if they'd have it flying by then, what would they want the Raptor for?

Because this would be an early generation of stealth, and the Raptor would be "proven" by then. The 2011 date would only be for the prototype, and they'd probably be looking at another 7-10 years for production, where the F-22 will be in full production already.

I guess they want their new fighters as soon as possible. With India and China getting stronger at a rapid pace Japan needs to hurry, 2011 is too late.

Japanese pilots get taste of F-22As during Kadena training

By David Allen, Stars and Stripes
Pacific edition, Tuesday, May 1, 2007



KADENA AIR BASE, Okinawa — U.S. and Japanese jet fighter pilots got a chance to play “good jock, bad jock” in the skies near Okinawa.

For the first time ever, fighter jocks with Japan’s Air Self-Defense Force got to practice air-to-to-air combat last week with American counterparts who were flying stealthy new F-22A Raptors.

In the first mission Friday, the U.S. Air Force was the Blue Team, “basically the good guys,” said Lt. Col. Wade Tolliver, commander of the 27th Fighter Squadron. The unit is on temporary deployment from Langley Air Force Base, Va., with 12 of the radar-deflecting Raptors.

The teams — four JASDF F-15Cs and F-4s and two U.S. F-15Cs and F-22As each — swapped roles in the afternoon.

“The Japanese Air Force has very competent, very capable pilots,” Tolliver said after the exercise.

He said the Japanese pilots were especially eager to get a look at the F-22As, which are on their first deployment outside the United States.

Japan has expressed a keen interest in buying Raptors to replace its aging fleet of F-4EJ and F-15s.

“This is the second joint training we’ve done with other nations,” Tolliver said. Another U.S.-based Raptor squadron trained with jets from Great Britain and Australia in February during the Red Flag exercise in Nevada.

Story

Found this to update members on F-22s

Well looks like there is some more news on this Japan situation.

Japan should consider buying the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter instead of the more advanced F-22 Raptor if Tokyo wants a fleet of next-generation fighter jets, says the top Pentagon acquisitions official.

“[The F-22] was never considered for export when it was designed, developed and built,” Kenneth Krieg, the under-secretary of defence for acquisition, technology and logistics, told the Financial Times.

What is the problem he honestly I thought its all been pretty clear from the US that the answer is a big fat NO. It makes sence that it should and at the same time shouldn't be its a catch 22. If anyone can get the full artical that would be great.

link: www.ft.com...



[edit on 22/08/06 by Canada_EH]

Imho the japaneese need a top of the line plane not something like the F35. Just for one reason. They will be outnumbered so they need the best they can get. So that leaves the Typhoon as the 2nd option.

I assume there are a lot of features that the US really REALLY doesnt want anyone else to have. The US government doesnt trust anyone that much.

On the other hand they would be wise to sell it now before some other, cheaper aircraft come out with comporable performence.

Originally posted by tomcat ha
Imho the japaneese need a top of the line plane not something like the F35. So that leaves the Typhoon as the 2nd option.

What do you mean? The F-35A/C will only be second best to the F-22 Raptor when they come online. Personally I think it is an excellent all round fighter which will serve the Japaneese well. They can also buy more of them due to the price difference. And with all do respect to the Typhoon the F-35 sports more impressive features and capabilities...

update
link

Back in February 2006, InsideDefense.com's Inside The Air Force (ITAF) reported that momentum was building within the Air Force to sell the ultra-advanced F-22A Raptor abroad to trusted U.S. allies, as a way of plussing up numbers and production. The USAF originally initially intended to purchase 700-800 F-22 fighters, but that was cut to 442, then 381, and recently cut again to just over 180. These cuts have had obvious effects on the cost per aircraft, and on the ratio of aircraft to total R&D + production money spent.

One of the most likely export prospects is Japan. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) currently has four fighter jet models in its fleet: F-15J/F-15DJ Eagles, its F-4EJ "Kai" and RF-4EJ reconnaissance Phantom IIs, the Mitsubishi F-2s (a larger, longer-range variant on the F-16C), and F-1s. The F-1 entered service in 1978 and is being replaced by F-2s; the JASDF introduced the F-4EJ in 1973, and has indicated it will begin retiring the platform some time next decade. This gives the Japanese a number of choices. While the Raptor was discussed at a summit meeting, there are now reports that "Pro-China officials in the White House and Pentagon are quietly undermining Japan's request..."

looks like the request is real and still alive

Bill Gertz, Washington Times: "Pro-China officials in the White House and Pentagon are quietly undermining Japan's request to buy 50 advanced F-22 jet fighter-bombers, to avoid upsetting Beijing's government, according to U.S. officials familiar with the dispute.... Both the Air Force and the F-22 manufacturer, Lockheed Martin Corp., favor building an export version.... The F-22 export is a major test of U.S. support for Japan and is being watched closely by Japanese government officials who are worried Washington will not back Tokyo and instead kow-tow to Beijing on the sale."

Originally posted by Jezza
update
link

Back in February 2006, InsideDefense.com's Inside The Air Force (ITAF) reported that momentum was building within the Air Force to sell the ultra-advanced F-22A Raptor abroad to trusted U.S. allies, as a way of plussing up numbers and production. The USAF originally initially intended to purchase 700-800 F-22 fighters, but that was cut to 442, then 381, and recently cut again to just over 180. These cuts have had obvious effects on the cost per aircraft, and on the ratio of aircraft to total R&D + production money spent.

One of the most likely export prospects is Japan. The Japan Air Self-Defense Force (JASDF) currently has four fighter jet models in its fleet: F-15J/F-15DJ Eagles, its F-4EJ "Kai" and RF-4EJ reconnaissance Phantom IIs, the Mitsubishi F-2s (a larger, longer-range variant on the F-16C), and F-1s. The F-1 entered service in 1978 and is being replaced by F-2s; the JASDF introduced the F-4EJ in 1973, and has indicated it will begin retiring the platform some time next decade. This gives the Japanese a number of choices. While the Raptor was discussed at a summit meeting, there are now reports that "Pro-China officials in the White House and Pentagon are quietly undermining Japan's request..."

looks like the request is real and still alive

Bill Gertz, Washington Times: "Pro-China officials in the White House and Pentagon are quietly undermining Japan's request to buy 50 advanced F-22 jet fighter-bombers, to avoid upsetting Beijing's government, according to U.S. officials familiar with the dispute.... Both the Air Force and the F-22 manufacturer, Lockheed Martin Corp., favor building an export version.... The F-22 export is a major test of U.S. support for Japan and is being watched closely by Japanese government officials who are worried Washington will not back Tokyo and instead kow-tow to Beijing on the sale."

And there you have it. Technology be damned, the main reason for not supplying the Japanese with the F22 is political. With the hold the Chinese have over the US due to the trade deficit, this may be one fight the Japanese can't win.

Which is a shame, 'cos they need the F22 to co-ordinate their Defence Forces' response next time Godzilla makes a run at Tokyo.

KW