Sandia secret base: Does it really exist?

Originally posted by Ghost01
Remember the the plane that blew up over Lockerbe, Scotland? They found identifyable body parts in that plane. They Also found bodies from crash at the World Trade Center. Why should the Pentagon be different?
Sorry John, but I think your logic is off on this one!

There is no similarity to a passenger falling 30,000 feet and one passing through reinforced concrete at 450 mph. None.

Your saying the explosion occured 12 minutes Before the crash?
It didn't look that way when I saw it.

Tim, I'm pretty sure you saw the TV version, you weren't actually there were you?

Ok John, I'm convinced that the reported time of the attack on the Pentagon was not correct. Just as you have asserted the actual attack happened 12 minutes before they said it did. You were correct on this one.

However, I'm still unconvinced that there was no plane crashing into the Pentagon! If your assumption is correct, Are you claiming that United Airlines Flight 77, and it's passangers Never existed?

Oh it existed all right. I just don't know what happened to it.

Explain where the missing people who were on Flight 77 are?

I can't explain what happened to any of the passengers on any of the 911 airplanes. Maybe they're relaxing in a rain forest on the moon.

Surely, they did NOT volinteer to ABANDON their lives and their families to join a consipiracy!

I have always considered that to be a possibility.

Where are the Missing People?

Already asked and already answered.

Well even though this thread is sliding off topic a little into some 911 stuff, and I want to hear more about the Sandia debate, I just wanted to mention a little about what you were saying, John, about the planes being remotely controlled. There is a topic (actually just a message I think) here that talks about how the CIA, or NSA, or The Illuminati Group or whoever it was responsible (for 911) had office space in Tower 7 that had all the "equipment" used to remotely control the planes. Once all events were finalized, the order was handed down the chain of command to "Pull it!", destroying all the evidence when Seven went down... Just thought I would add that... Sorry for contributing to the off topic bits...

Originally posted by johnlear
Tim, I'm pretty sure you saw the TV version, you weren't actually there were you?

No sir, I wasn't! I was at college on my way to class at the time.

it existed all right. I just don't know what happened to it.

John, I believe it crashed at the Pentagon.

I can't explain what happened to any of the passengers on any of the 911 airplanes. Maybe they're relaxing in a rain forest on the moon.

:

Rain Forest on the Moon? John, you can't be serious! Everyone knows that Nothing grows on the Moon. The Moon dose Not even have an atmosphere. Why do you Think the Astronautes wore spacesuits?

Wikipedia- Moon

For once humor me John, don't invent your own science for a discussion. Read up on the moon.

I really can't believe we are seriously discussing the idea of American's hiding on the moon and 9/11 in one topic! John, 9/11 was a terrible tradagy for Thousands of Poeple. There are still young children crying for the parent who isn't coming home ever again. Please have the dignaty as an American, not to accuse these victems of turning their backs on their ove children for a 1/2 baked conspiracy!

I respect you John, But this is Mocking the victems, and is truly a NEW LOW! I'm disapointed, I thought you had too much character for these kinds of Cheap Shots.

(This post Includes an Expression of MY FEELING, it's not intended as an attack in any way)

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
No sir, I wasn't! I was at college on my way to class at the time.

And how did you see the event? Through the window or on TV?

John, I believe it crashed at the Pentagon.

You are not alone.

Rain Forest on the Moon?

John, you can't be serious! Everyone knows that Nothing grows on the Moon. The Moon dose Not even have an atmosphere. Why do you Think the Astronautes wore spacesuits?

The moon may not have a rainforest but it does have a breathable atmosphere. Lots of things grow on the moon, trees, plants, vegetables for instance. The Apollo astronauts wore spacesuits to perpetuate the myth that the moon does not have a breathable atmosphere, not because they needed to.

For once humor me John, don't invent your own science for a discussion. Read up on the moon.

I read up on the moon Ghost01. The neutral point is 43,495 miles from the moon. Using the Bullialdus/Newton Inverse/Square law the gravity of the moon works out to be .64 that of earth, not 1/6th as is normally believed. That means the moon has an atmosphere which I maintain is breathable and it means the sky is not black during the day as NASA would have us believe. It also means the moon probably supports a large civilization, something earth people are not allowed to know about. Tell me Tim, what do you think the gravity is on the moon and why do you think that?

I really can't believe we are seriously discussing the idea of American's hiding on the moon and 9/11 in one topic!

You would be surprised how many Americans live on the moon.

John, 9/11 was a terrible tradagy for Thousands of Poeple. There are still young children crying for the parent who isn't coming home ever again. Please have the dignaty as an American, not to accuse these victems of turning their backs on their ove children for a 1/2 baked conspiracy!

I can certainly appreciate your concern for the victims of 911. But I would respectfully request that you open your eyes to who the perpetrators might have been and what their motives were and who might have been accomplices.

I respect you John, But this is Mocking the victems, and is truly a NEW LOW! I'm disapointed, I thought you had too much character for these kinds of Cheap Shots.

(This post Includes an Expression of MY FEELING, it's not intended as an attack in any way)

Noted. Thanks for you input, it is greatly appreciated.

Please try and stay on topic John. I'm interested in disproving your delusional claims about the Sandia base in the NTS not your delusional claims about the mass of the moon.

Originally posted by gfad
Please try and stay on topic John. I'm interested in disproving your delusional claims about the Sandia base in the NTS not your delusional claims about the mass of the moon.

Sorry gdfd, I am so delusional that sometimes I loose reference to which delusion I am in.

I came across a map last night in my "secret base" file drawn by a friend who had occasion to visit the Sandia airbase. It begins with the turnoff of Highway 6 across from the Stone Cabin Creek road and goes 23 miles to the first security checkpoint which is the entrance to the base camp. It diagrams the mancamp, mess hall and operations headquarters.

It then shows the road continuing south to the runways but first passing the little geodesic domes with the guards standing at port arms in front. No idea what is in the geodesic domes. They might be graders because before an airplane lands the dirt is graded off the runway and then after the airplane taxis in the dirt is graded back on the runway.

Of course this was 15 years ago and I believe they have a much better way of hiding runways these days particularly those strips in northern Nevada, you know, the one just west of Ely (does the BLM know about that one?), and the one on the east of the Kingsley Range. The one to the east of Kingsley Range is the base for which the military applied for more restricted airspace between McGill and Wells to the east of Highway 93 (Review Journal Jan 28, 2006, page 1A and 4A:Military Eyes More State Airspace).

Got a good GoogleEarth photoshopped by the military where I think the base is. (They did a real poor job of photoshopping the base in my opinion.)

By the way in my delusional state I think they have done an excellent job hiding Coyote Springs all these years.

Originally posted by gfad
Please try and stay on topic John. I'm interested in disproving your delusional claims about the Sandia base in the NTS not your delusional claims about the mass of the moon.

John, gfad is right. Please stay on topic.

The Moon thingy is over there. To which you still haven't answered, by the way. I know that my clause "simply ignoring my argument and stubbornly insisting 'But Newton says so!!' doesn't count" may give you a hard time. But what's life without a challenge ?!

Regards
yf

Originally posted by johnlear
It then shows the road continuing south to the runways but first passing the little geodesic domes with the guards standing at port arms in front. No idea what is in the geodesic domes. They might be graders because before an airplane lands the dirt is graded off the runway and then after the airplane taxis in the dirt is graded back on the runway.

Are you talking about the Cheshire Airstip again? So your telling us they bury the runway and then dig it up every time a plane comes in to land?

Really? How come you don't see this as a bit rediculas. For the record, You never read the internet article on the Cheshire Airstrip, did you? The origional story said their are sprinklers in the runway. Also, if there was loose dirt covering the runway, it would blow off or wash away in a storm.

Also, where in the hell did you get a geodesic dome from? A geodesic dome is a big glass dome. If Sandi had one, it would be easy to see. Here, read up on what a geodesic dome is:

Wikipedia- Geodesic Dome

By the way in my delusional state I think they have done an excellent job hiding Coyote Springs all these years.

And Coyote Springs is?

Are you now saying there are two of these "Invisible" Bases?

Tim

Originally posted by johnlear
I came across a map last night in my "secret base" file drawn by a friend who had occasion to visit the Sandia airbase. It begins with the turnoff of Highway 6 across from the Stone Cabin Creek road and goes 23 miles to the first security checkpoint which is the entrance to the base camp. It diagrams the mancamp, mess hall and operations headquarters.

...

Got a good GoogleEarth photoshopped by the military where I think the base is. (They did a real poor job of photoshopping the base in my opinion.)

Do you fancy sharing either of these with the board?

I'm quite interesting in the logistics of this base as well. Do you realise you are suggesting having a base 10 miles away from its runways and hangars? That doesn't make much sense to me. Infact it doesnt make much sense to me to have the runways and hangars any distance from the base, why not just have them together?

Secondly, if the runways are on the plains that means they are in the Nellis Air Force Range and the actual base is in the NTS. An unusual agreement I'm sure you'll agree.

Also now you have moved the base south into area 19 you have moved it away from the clouds and shadows which you initially presented as evidence for this base. Its either very large or you are just moving its position to fit todays new evidence against it.

I know this is a bit off topic but too help establish Johns notion of moon growths and oddities One only has to use Nasa's own World Wind Moon viewer. There are quite a few very high res official images showing amazing growths in and around some craters not to mention a few structures as well ( spend an hour zooming into a few differing locations and see for yourselves). Its not a question of If anymore but When,How and Whom IMO. Nasa's own images from their own Secure server and program show some amazing things on the moon and that run very contrary to the popular official belief. Just sayin do a little resarch as John and others have been doing.
Doesnt G.F.A.D. = Government Foreign Affairs Dept ?
It Would explain a lot though as much of what John talks about is deffinately of the "foreign or alien" variety. Hmm.
And continued good work Mr. Lear. More and more individuals everyday are seeing the simple facts as well.

[edit on 28-2-2007 by VType]

Originally posted by Ghost01
Are you talking about the Cheshire Airstip again?

Yes, that one.

So your telling us they bury the runway and then dig it up every time a plane comes in to land?

In very secret places yes. Remember this is 15 years ago. With the techonology they have today that method is no longer necessary.

Really? How come you don't see this as a bit rediculas.

Ridiculous in what sense?

For the record, You never read the internet article on the Cheshire Airstrip, did you?

Yes. I read the article when it first came out many years ago.

The origional story said their are sprinklers in the runway.

Yes, that is what it said.

Also, if there was loose dirt covering the runway, it would blow off or wash away in a storm.

I don't remember that part.

Also, where in the hell did you get a geodesic dome from?

I didn't have one. It was located at the Sandia airstrip.

A geodesic dome is a big glass dome.

Geodesic refers neither to its size nor its construction material. Geodesic refers to its architecture which is made up of short, straight, lightweight bars that form a grid of polygons.

If Sandi had one, it would be easy to see. Here, read up on what a geodesic dome is.

They were small, there was about 8 of them and they were covered with a sand like material like the hangar doors at S-4. They were too small for an airplane.

by johnlear
By the way in my delusional state I think they have done an excellent job hiding Coyote Springs all these years.

by ghost01And Coyote Springs is?

Secret base

Are you now saying there are two of these "Invisible" Bases?

No. There are about 12 or 15 around the U.S. there are about 5 in Nevada.

Thanks for your input Ghost, its always entertaining.

ouch john..this is a hostile thread...info about john for those who didn't bother...
most of what detractors are useing for evidence are known pass overs of comercial sat pics.........gosh, during the korean war, china hid tens of thousands from u.s. recon planes.....and you think that one secret base couldn't hide it's self from known sat passes...
i also find it ..funny... when people can not fathom things like uncovering and rehiding a runway because of the work involved. as a form military and law enforcement guy....i am very familar with tasks that are, on the surface, seemingly impossible..but get done anyway...(inserting laughing face) don't get me wrong...I NEVER WORKED ON ANYTHING TOP SECRET......
what you should ask..is what are johns motivations to devulge what he knows....maybe a liftime of service to what was thought to be a noble cause but then you find out that everything is a lie..that you were a part of something that was really...sorry for the moive ref..a matrix, a prison for your mind and that you were a part of it, that you spent so much of yourself, your energy, your wants, your motivation to serve what was thought to be a "greater good" just to find out that you were used as a throw away item for thier purposes....that history is a lie.................sorry...got a little ....introspective....

i guess..drive out there and see what happens......

keep posting john......

Originally posted by johnlear
Ridiculous in what sense?

John, if you constantly move the dirt around, the disturbance in the ground becomes visible on sattelites. At that point, you've defeated the whole point of burying it in the first place.

Also, if there was loose dirt covering the runway, it would blow off or wash away in a storm.

I don't remember that part.

That isn't in the article, it's basic common sense! I was born in Las Vegas, and I know Nevada well. Everything out there is desert. I'm sure you have seen flash flooding during rain storms, haven't you?

If the dirt is even a bit loose from being dug up, one hard rain is enought to wash it all away, leving the runway in plain sight. I know it doesn't rain that often in Las Vegas. However, when it dose rain, it usually comes pouring down. I still remember the old wash near my home flooding out during summer storms.

I didn't have one. It was located at the Sandia airstrip.

No John, I meant, how did you come up with the conclusion that there is a geodesic dome at Sandia?

Geodesic refers neither to its size nor its construction material. Geodesic refers to its architecture which is made up of short, straight, lightweight bars that form a grid of polygons.

I stand corrected!

If Sandi had one, it would be easy to see. Here, read up on what a geodesic dome is.

They were small, there was about 8 of them and they were covered with a sand like material like the hangar doors at S-4. They were too small for an airplane.

by ghost01And Coyote Springs is?

Secret base

Gee! I could have gussed that much! I was hoping for a sliver of background info.

No. There are about 12 or 15 around the U.S. there are about 5 in Nevada.

Thanks for your input Ghost, its always entertaining.

5 invisible military bases in Nevada? Gee, what lucky states get the other 10?

You never cease to amaze me. What's next John, A secret city? Maybe you'll post a map to Atlantis.

Tim

Originally posted by clearmind
most of what detractors are useing for evidence are known pass overs of comercial sat pics.........

I don’t usually post in these sections, I’m not a “believer” (at least not in anything coming to pay us a visit) but it can still be interesting. Anyway, you’re criticising Ghost and GFAD on the evidence that they are using but it isn’t them making the claim here, it’s John. What evidence has he brought to the table? None as far as I can see, so why do you believe him over those presenting more logical and simpler explanations? Even if it is possible that a runway can be covered and uncovered under these circumstances, even if the US government could somehow fabricate information on nuclear testing etc that doesn’t mean it has happened here. It is up to John to provide evidence of this base. By the way by evidence I don’t necessarily mean absolute proof.


This question has been burning a hole in me for ages, I mean fair enough if John wants to present his theories he’s free to do what he wants, but to those who believe them I have to ask why. It fascinates me that in the near total absence of any evidence (not absolute proof) people still take what he says as fact. Can you, clearmind, tell me why you have decided to trust in what John says and to side with him over the arguments from people like GFAD?

Cheers

Mike

Originally posted by clearmind
ouch john..this is a hostile thread...info about john for those who didn't bother...
most of what detractors are useing for evidence are known pass overs of comercial sat pics.........gosh, during the korean war, china hid tens of thousands from u.s. recon planes.....and you think that one secret base couldn't hide it's self from known sat passes...

Yes clearmind we know who John Lear is, and to be quite honest with the kind of ridiculous information he is giving I would have abandoned this thread a long time ag if it was anyone but him posting it. The fact that I'm still participating in this conversation shows my interest in John Lear and the knowledge he has, but he seems extremely reluctant to give away any of it.

Thank you Mike_A for your support. I agree with your viewpoint that it is very much up to John Lear to disprove the norm rather than the people who believe the norm to disprove his ideas. If that was the way it worked there would be an "anything goes" attitude on ATS. The fact of the matter is, I believe that I have provided suitable evidence to show that Sandia doesn't exist; I'm just sat here waiting for JLs response.



John you still havn't responded to my post where I state that the runways are about 10 miles from the base. How does this work?

Originally posted by Ghost01

5 invisible military bases in Nevada? Gee, what lucky states get the other 10?

I don't know. The passengers always have to have the window shades down.

You never cease to amaze me. What's next John, A secret city?

You mean besdies Dulce. Whoops, off topic. No wait! Thats ON topic. There are many, many secret cities underground. More than you could ever imagine.

Maybe you'll post a map to Atlantis.

Sorry. Only sleeper has that information and he won't tell us.

Originally posted by gfadJohn you still havn't responded to my post where I state that the runways are about 10 miles from the base. How does this work?

Sorry gfad, had to run up to the mine. It was supposed to freeze here and I didn't have the water pipes wrapped. Got them wrapped and now I am back.

Originally posted by johnlear
I came across a map last night in my "secret base" file drawn by a friend who had occasion to visit the Sandia airbase. It begins with the turnoff of Highway 6 across from the Stone Cabin Creek road and goes 23 miles to the first security checkpoint which is the entrance to the base camp. It diagrams the mancamp, mess hall and operations headquarters.

Got a good GoogleEarth photoshopped by the military where I think the base is. (They did a real poor job of photoshopping the base in my opinion.)

Do you fancy sharing either of these with the board?

Sure. But don't confuse Sandia with the one I mentioned above that was photoshopped by the military.

I'm quite interesting in the logistics of this base as well. Do you realise you are suggesting having a base 10 miles away from its runways and hangars? That doesn't make much sense to me. Infact it doesnt make much sense to me to have the runways and hangars any distance from the base, why not just have them together?

After you depart the mancamp you go through another security checkpoint and then head south about 10 miles. Thats where the geodesic domes, runways and hangars are.

Secondly, if the runways are on the plains that means they are in the Nellis Air Force Range and the actual base is in the NTS. An unusual agreement I'm sure you'll agree.

The runways are within R-4807B.

Also now you have moved the base south into area 19 you have moved it away from the clouds and shadows which you initially presented as evidence for this base. Its either very large or you are just moving its position to fit todays new evidence against it.

Good point. Maybe it was a real square cloud! And no, it would be next to impossible to move Sandia.

Originally posted by johnlear
After you depart the mancamp you go through another security checkpoint and then head south about 10 miles. Thats where the geodesic domes, runways and hangars are.
...

The runways are within R-4807B.
...

Good point. Maybe it was a real square cloud! And no, it would be next to impossible to move Sandia.

John this map is becoming more and more important since your information is getting more and more confusing and conflicting!

First you say that the runways are on the plains to the west or east of the Kawich ridge.

Yet then you say that the runways are south of the mancamp which is apprently in Area 19 of the NTS, area 19 is south of Kawich Ridge so the runways must be MUCH further south.

Then you contradict yourself again and say that the runways are within R-4807B. Unfortunately this area doesn't enclose the plains west or east of Kawich Ridge.

I'm not proposing that Sandia is moving John, I'm suggesting that it doesn't exist, it never existed, it is a figment of your imagination and you are simply moving it around to avoid the evidence I am providing to disprove your flawed theory.

Originally posted by gfad
John this map is becoming more and more important since your information is getting more and more confusing and conflicting!

First you say that the runways are on the plains to the west or east of the Kawich ridge.

Fisrt things first. Please show me where I said that the runways are on the east or west of Kawich. thanks.

Originally posted by johnlear
Fisrt things first. Please show me where I said that the runways are on the east or west of Kawich. thanks.

Ok, Kawich Ridge is listed on USGS maps as the ridge between the two plains Gold Flat and Kawich Valley (site of Lambs Pond/3-4) I think this quote suffices:

Originally posted by johnlear
The runways and associated hangars and other facililties are to the north of this main base on the desert flats. The landing strips are approximately south of a point midway between two dry lakes. The dry lake on the west is called Gold Flat, the dry lake on the east used to be called 3-4 (three dash four) but I don't know what it is called today.