Sandia secret base: Does it really exist?

Sandia is the name of a massive underground secret base with at least 3 associated runways, 2 parallel east and west and one north south located on the desert to the north of the main base.

Sandia main oprations is located on top of the ridge between Silent Canyon and Grass Springs Canyon.

Beginning in 1980 this ridge was leveled off, a huge base of many levels built and then the dirt was put back on to make it look like nothing ever was built there.

The runways and associated hangars and other facililties are to the north of this main base on the desert flats. The landing strips are approximately south of a point midway between two dry lakes. The dry lake on the west is called Gold Flat, the dry lake on the east used to be called 3-4 (three dash four) but I don't know what it is called today.

Sandia construction began in about 1980 and was completed in 1987. I believe that about 1300 people work there. Maybe many more by now. They commute by Special Projects Boeing 737 and land at one of afformentioned strips which I believe is called "Station 9". You can also drive there using the road through the Tonapah Test Range or the road that enters from Highway 6 down through the Siverbow area and south by what used to be called Pt. Baker and Pt. Charlie. I don't know what they call those places these days.

There is also underground tunnels which connect Sandia with both the TTR and Groom Lake and several other secret bases in northern Nevada.

Here is the map of where I think Sandia is:



If you are looking on this photo for signs of secret bases, runways, roads, power lines etc. you are looking on the wrong map. Sandia is a secret and they intend to keep it that way. Every indication is carefully camouflaged with the latest techonology.

The only suspicious thing that I saw to the east of Sandia was a square cloud with a square shadow obviously photoshopped. I don't have any idea what they were hiding. The base itself is underground so they weren't hiding that. The airstrips are well to the north so they weren't hiding that. But whatever it was that they were hiding was important enough to put a fake cloud over.

I guess the obvious question is where did you get this information? Also is there any evidence that can be seen if you actually go out to Nevada rather than looking at GE?

Do you have any ideas why there is a bombing target on 3-4 if a secret base is there?

Do you know why "they" felt the need to put a cloud over an area which can be seen to be empty on Yahoo Maps?

Finally you talk about station 9, could that be a mix up with the gate between area 51 and Yucca flats called station 900, which is also to the north-east of Groom Lake?

I posted my findings about the clouds here if you interested.
I would have posted it all here if you would have got this thread up sooner,sorry.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

That 'photshopped' cloud, seems to be abesnt from other image servers... so I would hazard a guess that's it's... a cloud... I'm not suggesting anyone is right, wrong, or whatever, only that it appears to be a cloud to me, or for some reason they didn't include it on other photos of the same site.

As far as this 'test' that was done with the image... umm... that's not really a test. In certain situations it can help demonstrate that something was doctored, but with a compressed image and a low-quality product like Paint Shop Pro it's mainly going to have you chasing artifacts from the compression algorythms.

After looking at the clouds in Paint Shop Pro id say there is definitely something covered up just as John has stated. As to what it is ,who knows?
But I think its kind of funny that they have all that tech and they can not do a better job of photoshopping things out on the Earths surface or on the Moon.

Originally posted by sp00ner
That 'photshopped' cloud, seems to be abesnt from other image servers... so I would hazard a guess that's it's... a cloud... I'm not suggesting anyone is right, wrong, or whatever, only that it appears to be a cloud to me, or for some reason they didn't include it on other photos of the same site.

As far as this 'test' that was done with the image... umm... that's not really a test. In certain situations it can help demonstrate that something was doctored, but with a compressed image and a low-quality product like Paint Shop Pro it's mainly going to have you chasing artifacts from the compression algorythms.

In the picture of fake cloud 3 it is kinda obvious it is a rectangle of some sort under the shadow.

you really think that this is just due to
"a compressed image and a low-quality product like Paint Shop Pro"
Paint Shop Pro Is not all that low quality of a product.
So your saying paint shop pro makes rectangles in shadows?

Take another look.

Fake Cloud3

Originally posted by gfad
I guess the obvious question is where did you get this information?

1. I watched it being built when I was flying for DOE on the underground nuke test monitoring program. I would fly up to the northern border and see this huge, white, scar as they were removing the top of the mountain. I didn't know what it was at the time but I knew it was big.

2. I had friends that worked on the construction of Sandia and told about the 5 miles long convoys of cement trucks headed towards the Pahute Mesa. Just cement trucks for 5 miles.

3. I have a couple of friends that worked at Sandia in the early 90's. I've lost touch with them and I don't know whether or not they work there anymore.

4. I did a televsion special on Sandia with Channel 3 here in Las Vegas in, I believe, 1996. Somebody called into the show and verified that he helped build Sandia.

Also is there any evidence that can be seen if you actually go out to Nevada rather than looking at GE?

There is no place that I know of where anybody can see where Sandia is other than approaching and departing aircraft over Beatty. As far as I know there is nothing to see as everything is camouflaged.

Do you have any ideas why there is a bombing target on 3-4 if a secret base is there?

That is what I would put there if I was trying to conceal something. I certainly wouldn't put a sign saying, "Secret Base-Do Not Bomb".

Do you know why "they" felt the need to put a cloud over an area which can be seen to be empty on Yahoo Maps?

No idea.

Finally you talk about station 9, could that be a mix up with the gate between area 51 and Yucca flats called station 900, which is also to the north-east of Groom Lake?

I have 15 hours of continuously recorded, voice activated, cassette tapes of Groom Lake tower that I recorded in the early and mid 90's with a highly directionalized antenna using an AR-3000 scanner. The antenna was located on my den roof. Many times Janet flights would report "...inbound from Station 9....." Groom Lake would then clear them into the area and I forget what the terminology was. I don't believe that Station 900 is an aerial reporting point, at least it wasn't when I was flying in the area.

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
you really think that this is just due to
"a compressed image and a low-quality product like Paint Shop Pro"
Paint Shop Pro Is not all that low quality of a product.
So your saying paint shop pro makes rectangles in shadows?

Take another look.

Fake Cloud3

I've seen it, and just a FYI I used to do professional photo retouching for a graphics design studio. That doesn't make me an expert on everything though. However.

Yes, PSP in the world of Graphics editors is a low quality product. Something along the lines of Photoshop would be at least average. I mean no disrespect, alot of people have no reason for a $1200 photo suite, but I do. The reason that this matters, is because of the artifacting and the quality of the compression routines. When you take a compressed image, and attempt to run some sort of 'test' like this on it, you have to be sure that you're starting out with the PURE pixels. Not something that's already been compressed, and then interpreted again. Just open up the same photo in two different photo editors of any type. You'll quickly understand what I'm talking about. They will look 'different' in each setup. From the color matching, to the specific method they use to interpret the compression format. In case you're not aware, compression throws information out, and takes areas of similar color values and sorta... long story short, fudges them to reduce the amount of pixel data that needs to be saved to disk. This can REALLY cause chaos on a nearly solid area like you have out lined.

The fact that it's not solid black or white is also a clue, it would be a simple matter to completely wipe the underlying layer with a photo editor and there would be no outline. The fact that this isn't done is a big clue to me that if someone wanted to hide something, they did a terrible job. I knew how to do this with 2 weeks under my belt as a graphic editor. They could also simple clone the mountains over it and then add a cloud, or add the cloud on top of it. White is much better to 'hide' things, as it's typically interpreted as no data vs. maxiumum data. White is 0, 0, 0, 0 in CMYK color schemes where black is 255, 255, 255, 255. The system that you're using is typically used to find a doctored photo. One that has had something added and you're looking for the signs of it. Not the other way around.

I have a better idea as well. Go to a different image server and look at the same area. Yahoo maps for instance, and you'll find nothing there. If this is a cover up job, you should be able to extract the exact same image from a different photo of the site.

I'm not disputing anything other than the cloud. I think it's a dead end.

Fair enough. Thank you for your input. Forget it then maybe I got excited over nothing.No big deal I'm not a master photo analyst I just thought I saw something behind the shadow.Maybe you can post a picture of the same area and teach me a little something.I'm always game for learning something new.

Originally posted by johnlear

Do you have any ideas why there is a bombing target on 3-4 if a secret base is there?

That is what I would put there if I was trying to conceal something. I certainly wouldn't put a sign saying, "Secret Base-Do Not Bomb".

I wouldn't put a sign saying secret base on it either, in fact I wouldnt put any markings on the lake bed. I dont think the planners would want Red Flags bombing the hell out of this base, you can see the craters on GE.

Speaking of Red Flag, Groom Lake is also known as the box because of its extremely secure airspace, so secure that even AF pilots cannot fly into it when they are training in the area. As far as I know Area 51 is the only such area in the NTS. Why would Sandia not have the same protection?

On the topic of the cloud, I think it is possible that it is either an artifact of Paint Shop Pro or even of GE or wherever you got the image from. I couldnt find the same rectangle when I checked in Photoshop.

I also have Photoshop cs2 and found the same thing. Its probably nothing.Like I said I'm not an expert at imaging so I'm not sure what I'm looking at.

Originally posted by johnlear
1. I watched it being built when I was flying for DOE on the underground nuke test monitoring program. I would fly up to the northern border and see this huge, white, scar as they were removing the top of the mountain. I didn't know what it was at the time but I knew it was big.

And another thing .... wouldnt this massive scar show up on satellite imagery? We have a large catelogue of Groom Lake images but I bet if someone took the time to dig out all the images of that non descript mountain ridge they wouldnt see any scar or construction work.

John:

Is the installation called Sandia, or does Sandia run the installation for another governmental entity?

For example, Sandia National Labs is owned by DOE, but is also called Sandia. Everyone just calls it "Sandia" too, although properly it's not the Sandia corporation nor is it owned by them.

Also Sandia IS LM, and there's a lot of Sandia/LockMar/Skunkworks back and forth.

is the land and airspace in this location secure? Could someone adventure or backpack to the area to check things out without camo dudes pointing guns? I have alot of free time and looking for some more adventures to post on ATS and willing for a challenge.

Could you please provide some google earth coordinates so that i can get my bearings as to the location? Your picture really is meaningless unless i can check out the surrounding areas.

Thanks!

The bit labelled "Possible large secret facility" looks very much like a bombing training range, with 5 circular radiating target zones (resembling a darts board) roughly 1.2km in diameter, then further south, but still in the lake bed is a very heavily used area littered in craters.

I would imagine very much that this area is restricted given all the bomb craters around!

As for the photo-shopped clouds, yahoo maps would seem to indicate the terrain is natural even though the source is a lower resolution, more images from different suppliers would help verify this though.

Originally posted by hiii_98
is the land and airspace in this location secure?

Maybe I can tackel this one!

The Location we are talking about is also known as Area 19 of the Nevada Test Site. I looked on a flight chart a few years back, this location is inside of Restricted Area R-4806.

So, yes it is as tighly restricted as R-4808N, the airspace over Groom Lake/Area 51.

Tim

Originally posted by Ghost01
The Location we are talking about is also known as Area 19 of the Nevada Test Site. I looked on a flight chart a few years back, this location is inside of Restricted Area R-4806.

So, yes it is as tighly restricted as R-4808N, the airspace over Groom Lake/Area 51.

Maybe to the public, but isn't it true that R-4808N (Groom Lake) is not onl restricted to the public but even Air Force pilots n't allowed to fly into it during training exercises etc. Thats why its called the box by pilots who regularly fly in the range.

I don't think R-4806 has these same restrictions to military pilots on it and it can therefore be concluded that the area underneath is less secret than Groom Lake.

Originally posted by gfad
I don't think R-4806 has these same restrictions to military pilots on it and it can therefore be concluded that the area underneath is less secret than Groom Lake.

Intresting observation! Is there a way we could find out for sure?

Tim

Originally posted by gfad
I wouldn't put a sign saying secret base on it either, in fact I wouldnt put any markings on the lake bed. I dont think the planners would want Red Flags bombing the hell out of this base, you can see the craters on GE.

GFAD. I am wondering if you think during a Red Flag excercise all the fighters and bombers load up with bombs, rockets and other ordinance and just go looking for targets of opportunity like 3-4. If so, you are poorly informed. Every mission and every target is carfully coordinated and if there is a dry lake with a target on it and it is not supposed to be bombed then it won't be bombed. My personal opinion is that you are looking at a photo that is at least 20 years ld.

Speaking of Red Flag, Groom Lake is also known as the box because of its extremely secure airspace, so secure that even AF pilots cannot fly into it when they are training in the area. As far as I know Area 51 is the only such area in the NTS. Why would Sandia not have the same protection?

If the military has learned anything in the past 20 years it is that you do not signal where a secret base is by placing a restricted area directly over it it. Especially if it underground and there is no chance seeing it.

And it will not get bombed 'unintentionally'; not in Red Flag and not in any other excercise.


Thanks for your input.