Does today's failed terror plot change your mind regarding 9/11?

"Murdoch uncovered Prince Charles-Gordon Brown plot to oust Blair. Phony terror plan cooked up to derail political coup plans."

"After Blair met with Bush in Washington, he flew to California where on July 30 he attended Murdoch's News Corporation private corporate executive conference at the posh Inn at Spanish Bay golf resort in Pebble Beach. Blair met with Murdoch, Israeli former Prime Minister Shimon Peres, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Newt Gingrich, and various Fox, Star, and Sky News executives. The final touches were agreed to by Blair and Murdoch on how the fake terror plot would play out in Murdoch's media empire."

FROM:

www.waynemadsenreport.com...

Originally posted by ludaChris
Anyhow, on topic I believe there are groups of people out there who would do us harm if they could.

Do you reall believe the worse thing America has to worry about is rogue agents trying to blow up American citizens? Who do you think bank role their operations and gives them the security to manage said plots?

I dont think the government is involved except to stop them.

Why let all the 'bin laden's' fly out of the country when OBL is their lead suspect ( so they 'claim')? Why appoint a Saudi to manage port security for the 100 odd ports that will soon ( or already is ) under foreign control? Your trusting the wrong people and you will release your mistake too late...

Honestly, they whole "the government is doing this to take our rights away" argument has gained no ground and in my opinion has no footing to stand on.

Governments can not take people's rights's away if they do not are not allowed to do so and that is the real aim of all their actions. Once they create the climate where they can induce you to accept their 'program's they will and you WILL lose your rights as has happened in every case in history.

My life has not changed since 9/11. I dont fear terrorists. I dont fear the government(except the IRS). I dont understand how this argument is still used.

If you ask no questions and generally do what the government expects a good citizen to do you will probably do very well in the system they created as they do not mind awarding loyalty ( unknowingly/ knowingly) with whatever they indoctrinated you to believe 'success' to be.

Stellar

Originally posted by Gazrok

On the flip side, hard to do anything diplomatic about it, when the terrorists are the ones in office (as in Lebanon)...so their actions aren't all that surprising.

They have terrorist in office in Lebanon??? Last i checked there was a election and stuff? Last i checked a government is a government is a government and it's not like America has any right to moan about unelected officials ( or presidents) anymore; at least not in any democratic sense.

I still can't believe the US is behind 911. There were plenty of ways to achieve the same goal without crippling industry and the entire economy at the time. I just can't believe that a bunch of fat cats who live and die on interest rates, stock prices, etc. purposefully orchestrated their own reduction of fortunes...c'mon.

'Class' interest comes far before profits as the history of capitalism will easily prove on closer inspection. I think many people confuse their own 'love' for money with the reality that money means NOTHING to the true rulers of the world when they can not employ it towards their ultimate aims which has nothing to do with 'profit' and everything to do with 'control'. I will agree that i do not think the American government itself was actually the main perpetrators as much as they were forced to 'let it happen'.

That said, sure, after the fact, I have no doubt that some high in power used that influence to get their ties to likely suspects out of dodge in a hurry....but I don't think they orchestrated it.

I would not put it beyond them but i can't help forgetting how Bush just sat there staring at that book. I refuse to believe THAT was orchestrated ( creating a war president that looks like a fool when his country is under attack ) and thus that he was 'in the loop'. I see no reason why his 'handler's' would want to make a complete fool of him so yet again they were imo not in the loop either... They knew something was coming but was clearly unprepared for the scale of it...

Thing is, no matter WHAT security measures you try, if there is a concerted effort, eventually it will happen.

Well then far fewer American cities/airports/planes would have gone up in smoke over the last few decades so i just do not believe that their THAT incompetent. Inaction or forced complicity is the best i can see in this instance.

For example, any idiot CIA spook could stuff some C-4 in a few lipstick cases, and build a detonator from a personal calculator or even a cell phone, so the idea is ludicrous to keep liquids off planes. Likewise, a false baby formula container could accomplish the same thing. Enough with the ideas though, terrorists will simply have to rely on their own wits.

If America's enemies ( Muslims; whatever )were the murdering scum some suggest they are American airliners would be dropping from the skies monthly considering the absolutely bs security. Since that is not happening either the terror threat is not there or Arabs are just the worse terrorist on earth.

We're still just biding time folks. Despite your feelings on WHO is behind it, we WILL see another 911 style attack eventually succeed. I wish it wasn't so, and I'm glad it hasn't happened yet, but it is inevitable, and it will be inevitably worse.....

We will surely see another large scale attack 7/7 , 9/11 , 11/3 ( in the west i mean) style but it will all be staged government 'allowed' or backed events just like those before.

'm sure his mind was elsewhere...but likely not light years ahead of anything, hehe..... We don't need critics to tell he's an idiot, just listen to him. Sorry, but being the leader of the free world for over 5 years, he's kind of out of the learning curve.

Well his either a robot ( which explains the language best imo) or his really faking the stupidity to the hilt on occasion. He might not be the smartest but he knows his part in the game and that is not 'stupid' in my book.

Despite his college education, it's fairly obvious his connections, not his intelligence got him through. I'm still cringing from the debates, hehe... Kerry, with the charisma of the average rock, ran circles around him, and that's scary....

If i wanted to progress in the 'real world' ( well the one we are supposed to want to live) i would MUCH rather have good connections than be knowledgeable or very intelligent. In the 'real world' it's who you know and knowing how to fit into the 'plan' that gets you to high office or fabulous riches.

Anyways!

Stellar

Originally posted by jsobecky
As far as sacrificing freedom for safety, I don't personally know anybody who has lost any. And I don't look at it that way; the way I see it, we've given up innocence for caution.

apparantly you havent tried to climb the statue of liberty lately, don't bother as the highest you can now ascend is to her feet as her crown was closed off due to "threat of terrroism and fire hazard" the day 9/11 happened
it was only announced that it will remain closed perminenatly just the other day
www.msnbc.msn.com...

that's a freedom you lost just this week brother!
just think what you lost in the past 5 years that you didn't even know about

as for underestimating the NSA, they statistically can not monitor everything in real time nor decrypt encrypted conversation in real time
true, their computers do most of the work and pick up on key words like bomb and such
but guess what, VOIP services such as skype are encrypted end to end, and free

all us based VOIP services that connect to land lines and are considered "alternative phones systems" are monitored by the nsa
skype is not considered a replacement but rather a messaging service and is not monitored, suposedly

i guess nothing beats good old fashoned face to face communication

security is always beaten by those that wish to beat it badly enough
not even the all seeing nsa can catch everthing
you clearly place too much faith in them

[edit on 13-8-2006 by wondernut]

Originally posted by American Madman
Yeah unlike the democrats they have not tried to scare minorities into voting for them saying the other party will take away their civil rights.

Well the democrats are quite 'right' ( hehe) when they claim that even if they are hypocrites for not being honest and admitting they will do the same.

I haven't seen it reported that republican staffers were trading crack for votes unlike democrats in 2004...

Well with a radical , bordering on crazy, right wing press that is not surprising.

I haven't seen republicans promise the world through tax subsidized living like the democrats have.

It's all lies anyways and considering that it would be stupid for the 'right' not to tell the very same lie ( which they are).

Shall I go on.

You will anyways.

Those protested voting districts which were btw run by democrats...

Well Jeb stole the whole damn presidency for little Bush so i don't think it's wise to get into the whole 'pointing fingers' business.

Wanna get dirty. Trust me I think both are really one party and both have issues, but lets not paint the democrats as the people's party or the party of ethics cause they aren't by any means...

/me nods in agreement.

One of the democrats largest contributers is the teachers union... Good schools are lacking in which districts and whom do those in the undereducated districts overwhelming vote for... If change took place in those districts who would be fired...

Shows you just how easily people can be fooled....

So please... Kerry has more money then god you think he gave a rats ass about you, no more so then bush did..

Well his wife does and I'm not sure how much she's going to give him for all the suffering his caused her...

The democrats are a "do as i say not as I do" people.... you think gore flys commercial or car pools. Do you think kerry sits with ordinary people all the time
and talks to them.

I think Kerry will probably do worse but only because he uses bigger words than most voters in America can still understand these days.

Originally posted by American Madman
It all seems to me to be "bushysteria" if bush is involved everything is taken to the extreme.

For some reason him doing the same as all American presidents before him ( well for at least half a century)gets him all this bad press and since American press is being run by rabid right wingers this is a pretty interesting phenomenon.

BUt I haven't seen what everyone is complaining about. One guy I know was ranting about the police cause they set up a checkpoint near a day worker "illegals" site talking about how this is hitlers germany cause they were checking registration... They checked mine and let me go no problem...

Well if it's near the border i don't think he should be complaining unless he likes illegals destroying the wage structure of American workers..

I mean wtf is this the first registration check in USA history... no. But you'd think so if you listened to some people. Plus people forget the police the military is made up of our loved ones and friends in our communities.

Why do you think their sending the republican guards to Iraq to get killed and wounded by the thousands? They want to make sure that the true 'guards' of liberty ( the armed guy living next to you that is willing to defend his community) is away dying on foreign soil while their selected formation of armed thugs gets ready to police whatever part of the country they are sent to.

They aren't mindless drones. If the gov started to act a fool and started to try to do to us what the taliban was doing to the afghans they would have no armed forces or police.

This is not the first time in history that this sort of thing happens and the first step is always to destroy the militia and to build in it's place a permanent army. Since America has both they will slowly create crisis after crisis in which to get all the loyal ( to the people) servents killed, maimed or twisted towards their ends.

Besides they have control already anyway. All they do by forcing extreme control is shoot themselves in their own foot. What do they want or need us to do that we don't do already anyway.

You will be surprised just how many of your rights they are actually interested in 'liberating' from your control. I suggest you check out Alex Jones as i do not believe anyone does/has done more to expose just what they want from you.

Stellar

I miss the freedoms to go to a library and check out any book I want, or to go to the bookstore and buy any book I want without thinking about how it might appear to some faceless securocrat.

I know that my web search terms are being scrutinized. I used to go through embedded links in hotmail messages I'd send myself to do semi-anonymous surfing. But Hotmail no longer does that. Everything appears in your history. I don't know if anonymous surfing can still be done without a lot of workarounds. I used to be able to switch off the GPS function in my cellphone. My current phone does not allow that.

I know by simply being a participant on certain types of web sites or by trading emails or having phone conversations concerning some political topics, I am likely being flagged for increased surveillance. I have been at a demonstration this year (at the 2000th US death in Iraq) and have been videotaped for identification as a person 'not sympathetic' to the US government's policies.

What freedom do I miss most? The freedom to feel free.

Well said MrP.

I'm even a little paranoid about agreeing with you and giving you a WATS!

Originally posted by df1

Originally posted by American Madman
People were getting murdered there before we went there.

Damn right!

We can't allow iraqis to murder iraqis, these iraqis need to be murdered and raped by americans. What was that "iraqi madman", saddam, thinking?

Oh stop. Saddam was thinking murder these people so my will can not be questioned by my own people.

A vast majority of the Iraqis being murdered are being murdered by the "freedom fighters" terrorists. I bet the people of europe are very upset their entire continent was blast to rubble, and would rather live in Nazi Europe. Do you see that happening in Iraq? Nope. Do civilians take casualties from US bombing I'm sure they do at times. The world is far from perfect. But at least we aren't deliberatly targerting them like the "freedom fighters"....

Out of 150,000 troops a handfull are suspects in murder and rape trials I think a grand total of 2 or 3. Of course no one cares if the US soldiers get their fair trail, no chance they were set up by an enemy who's only ally is the media which is quick to blame american troops for anything. They are guilty automatically, but if your a terrorist trying to kill americans God Forbid they don't get what someone considers miranda while they are shooting at our guys.

Originally posted by Mr_Peel
I miss the freedoms to go to a library and check out any book I want, or to go to the bookstore and buy any book I want without thinking about how it might appear to some faceless securocrat.

If you check out, "The anarchist Cookbook", you will be placed on the government's watch list. Personally I own a copy.

pg 98 - Converting a shotgun into a grenade launcher
pg 113 - How to make nitroglycerin
pg 132 - detonators

I think this is an authorized book put out by the CIA, during the height of the cold war.

And I've made and hid copies of the book.





[edit on 13-8-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Britain lowers its terrorist threat level from "critical" to "severe," which indicates an attack is still likely.

Just lol.. The terrorists (if any) are not gonna do anything lol. They will sit
in front of the telly watching for the "threat level" to lower and then some
Govt agency will cellphone them to proceed...

Its funny how they use this terror threat indications lol

Well there you have it - thread level just lowered. In record time too. Pass the popcorn...

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
If you check out, "The anarchist Cookbook", you will be placed on the government's watch list. Personally I own a copy.

pg 98 - Converting a shotgun into a grenade launcher
pg 113 - How to make nitroglycerin
pg 132 - detonators

I think this is an authorized book put out by the CIA, during the height of the cold war.

And I've made and hid copies of the book.

watch out with that, i've heard many of the things in it are just plane wrong and will kill you if you try them
as you suggested, the CIA probably put it out--- so would be terrorists would use it and kill themselves before they killed others

The terrorists also prefer to have certain governments in power, so every now and then they have these "Foiled Plots" that the governments in power can take the credit for foiling and gain election points from.

No one was hurt in this so the powers that be get loads of points.

Sorry but I was camping this weekend with the family, but does anyone know if they are pinning the airplane bomb plot on Al Qaeda. I remember them saying Friday they were holding someone from Al Qaeda as a suspect but I don't know what happened since then. Is Al Qaeda behind this plot? Thanks.

Ok, it looks like they are blaming Al Qaeda for the airline bomb plot (ABP). To what degree, we don't know yet.

news.independent.co.uk...

Twenty-three young Muslims are being questioned about an alleged plot to blow up passenger airliners flying between Britain and the United States....

Pakistani police have arrested several men accused of links to the British plot. They include Rashid Rauf, who is related to one of the men detained in Britain and is said to be a key suspect...

Both Rashid Rauf and Matiur Rehman, a senior al-Qa'ida operative in Pakistan, are reported to have been involved. However, security sources are convinced that this is largely a British-based plot controlled by UK citizens alleged to have close al-Qa'ida links.

And...

news.independent.co.uk...

MI5 and the police are investigating "dozens and dozens" of possible al-Qa'ida-inspired plots to cause mass murder in Britain, counter-terrorism sources have disclosed.

From here, I’d like to have a discussion about how you feel regarding an overall conspiracy plot.

Discussion Topics:
1) There is no government conspiracy. Al Qaeda is responsible for 9/11 and ABP and working alone as a true terrorist group out to kill British and American citizens. End of story.
2) Al Qaeda is connected with the government in some fashion. The official stories of 9/11 and ABP may be correct but the government conspiracy lies in the fact that they are pulling the strings of Al Qaeda in some way such as having prior knowledge of what would take place on 9/11 and allowing Al Qaeda to destroy the WTC to further and authoritarian agenda.
3) The government is directly responsible for 9/11, such as the military remotely flying planes into WTC and the pentagon. The APB was ‘made up’ to further an authoritarian agenda. Al Qaeda is merely a scapegoat.
4) Other thoughts and ideas.

Originally posted by mecheng

If it was discovered they work for Al Qaeda would that prove that Al Qaeda is actually trying to kill us and therefore could very well have attacked us on 9/11 a well?

No. The NWO attacked us on 911 to hasten their agenda. They're just trying to convince us it was Al Qaeda. Even is they have to kill some more of us to prove it. But thanks for asking.

Israel initiates the same campaign against itself at times when it wants to show aggression towards Palestine. It'll attack itself, kill one of its own people, commit some sort of act, blame it on the P.L.O. or some organization in palestine, and then it gives them reason to start attacking and start an offensive.

If Israel does it, why wouldn't the United States make an attempt?

Originally posted by johnlear
No. The NWO attacked us on 911 to hasten their agenda. They're just trying to convince us it was Al Qaeda. Even is they have to kill some more of us to prove it. But thanks for asking.

Your Welcome.
Who specifically, IYO, was responsible for plotting 9/11. Who specifically, IYO, physically conducted 9/11?

Originally posted by Masisoar
It'll attack itself, kill one of its own people, commit some sort of act, blame it on the P.L.O. or some organization in palestine, and then it gives them reason to start attacking and start an offensive.

Got links and/or proof of this?

Well, that's part of my opinion into the conspiracy on the matter. Read the news or the newspaper, politics surrounding Israel.


Besides, if I had proof, wouldn't that be a bad thing for people to know about them? =)

Originally posted by American Madman
But at least we aren't deliberatly targerting them like the "freedom fighters"....

Im sure iraqis feel better about dying due from collateral damage rather than be targeted by american weapons.

quick to blame american troops for anything.

Im quick to blame american political leadership for having us in iraq in the first place. Your support our troops inferences are a bunch of crap intended to rationalize immoral and illegal use of the US military to protect americans from a country that poses little, if any, threat to the american people at best.

Now Im suppose to get all excited & concerned because the government has proclaimed that it has saved me from a new group of terrorists. Personally I don't believe any of it. First the government tried to sell us some terrorists in florida that were more interested in the latest in BDU fashsion than they were weapons. Next the government pitches fear from some supposed terrorists from an internet chat room. Nobody bought into this nonsense, so now the govenment brings in the media and the british to add some international intrigue & excitement to the previously failed propoganda.

If the american people do not start buying these lies real soon the US government will be left with no choice except to blow up some americans to market the terrorist myth.

[edit on 14-8-2006 by df1]