Does today's failed terror plot change your mind regarding 9/11?

It all seems to me to be "bushysteria" if bush is involved everything is taken to the extreme.

BUt I haven't seen what everyone is complaining about. One guy I know was ranting about the police cause they set up a checkpoint near a day worker "illegals" site talking about how this is hitlers germany cause they were checking registration... They checked mine and let me go no problem... I mean wtf is this the first registration check in USA history... no. But you'd think so if you listened to some people. Plus people forget the police the military is made up of our loved ones and friends in our communities. They aren't mindless drones. If the gov started to act a fool and started to try to do to us what the taliban was doing to the afghans they would have no armed forces or police.

Besides they have control already anyway. All they do by forcing extreme control is shoot themselves in their own foot. What do they want or need us to do that we don't do already anyway.

Originally posted by leapofdreams

Just another show to get people scared and to vote for republicans. Is there anything these bastard wont do for a vote.

Yeah unlike the democrats they have not tried to scare minorities into voting for them saying the other party will take away their civil rights.

I haven't seen it reported that republican staffers were trading crack for votes unlike democrats in 2004...

I haven't seen republicans promise the world through tax subsidized living like the democrats have.

Shall I go on.

Those protested voting districts which were btw run by democrats...

Wanna get dirty. Trust me I think both are really one party and both have issues, but lets not paint the democrats as the people's party or the party of ethics cause they aren't by any means...

One of the democrats largest contributers is the teachers union... Good schools are lacking in which districts and whom do those in the undereducated districts overwhelming vote for... If change took place in those districts who would be fired...

So please... Kerry has more money then god you think he gave a rats ass about you, no more so then bush did..

The democrats are a "do as i say not as I do" people.... you think gore flys commercial or car pools. Do you think kerry sits with ordinary people all the time
and talks to them.


[edit on 11-8-2006 by American Madman]

[edit on 11-8-2006 by American Madman]

Originally posted by mecheng
I don't know becky. Seems to me it's a lot easier to get a bomb into an airport than on an airplane. Nobody checks my stuff as I'm walking into an airport. If the result is to simply kill the most people, and maybe it's not, I think there are far easier and more effective targets than airplanes.

Yes, I agree, and thus my statement:

The horror of a flight blowing apart over the ocean is much worse than a land incident where security and medical help are only a few minutes away. And that is what is aimed for - the horror factor more than the number of lives.

If the number of bodies were the objective, there are lots of other places where more people are packed into a denser area.

"We don't have the KGB running around, doing covert things."

Damned right! We've proved time and again the KGB is a tinpot coldwar relic that can't hold a candle to American innovation and know-how. Thank god and your country for the NSA!

It's looking more and more to me like this was a large scale plot by Al Qaeda. They are rounding up suspects left and right now and I also read there was an investigation into this plot going on since July of last year.

www.foxnews.com...

LONDON — Police arrested 40 people in cities throughout Italy in raids on Muslim gathering places in a security crackdown after Britain thwarted an alleged terror plot, the Interior Ministry said Friday, as Pakistani intelligence agents claimed there was an Al Qaeda connection with ties to Afghanistan to the group of suspected terrorists arrested Thursday.

It's just not adding up for me. On the one hand (if our government was involved in this plot) why would Al Qaeda want to be connected in any way with our government? I know about how Al Qaeda was started and financed by the US back in the day. And the connections between the Bushs and Bin Ladens. I've heard the theories that Al Qaeda is still somehow connected with the US. Why would Al Qaeda allow that? Why would they want their own people to be rounded up by the US and be put into prison just so the US elite can further their authoritarian goals? What's in it for Al Qaeda?

On the other hand (Al Qaeda acting alone), why isn't Al Qaeda going hard and heavy after more populated places rather than trying to bomb a bunch of planes? To be nice? If jihad and the elimination of Americans is what they really want, we have proven there are far 'better', more effective, cheaper, and less risky ways to kill us than bombing a bunch of planes. How do they benefit from just scaring us? If you say 'so Bush can forward his authoritarian agenda', I then go back to then what's in it for Al Qaeda and why would they allow themselves to be thrown in prison? Perhaps only Bush and OBL know of the overall conspiracy and OBL allowed his cronies to be caught yesterday?

I don't know if I'm just being dense. I hear the arguments and tend to agree them, but it's just not adding up on either side for me right now. To me this one is looking like it's Al Qaeda working alone. This may prove out differently down the road, but if true, what does that say about the 9/11 conspiracy theories?

Sorry for rambling here. I'm just trying to connect the dots. I'd like to hear your theories and how these terrorist plots might be connected into a 'grand conspiracy'.

For now, I think I'm going to have a drink.

Originally posted by Gazrok
Etc., etc., no political motivation.

It is the political angle which separates violence from terrorism

and what political motovation did the 9/11 hijackers have?
or for that matter ANY of the illeged conspirutors that have been arrested lately?

how about due process?
whatever happened to that?
these people get arrested then more than a year later they see a court date.
i know this is becoming more of the trend these days but that doesn't make it any less unconstitutional
and yes, the constitution does protect these "terrorists" until they are proven guilty, until then they are just suspects, NOT terrorists.

the government is relaxing the deffinition of "terrorist" and the people are rapidly exchanging freedom for "safety" (though we are not much more safe than we were 30 years ago...)
anyone guess what's next?
they'll take our guns away.
after that?
we will have no way to fight back against their totalitarian dictatorship.
sound paranoid?
you bet you bottom it is.

what Al Qaeda ties do any of the reciently arrested terrorists or the plots they were tied to actually have?
sure, you can scream Al Qaeda everywhere and scare people into believing you, but what has Al Qaeda done lately?

faux news reports things every now and then with the usual republican spin

but honestly, what has Al Qaeda been responsible for in the past few years?
also don't you find it a bit odd that the government has been able to stop 100% of the attacks 100% of the time in the past few years?
statistically with the number of illeged attack plots happening, atleast one should have gotten thorugh
also, why have NONE of these "terrorists" had backup plans?
how is it that these "terrorists" can manage to plot such extravagant plots and yet never manage to use secure or encrypted conversations?

a little too convienent if you ask me, especially considering the abundance of technology that allows you to communicate anonymously, such as skype or yahoo email

dont get me wrong, america has a long history of "witch hunting", starting before witches actually...

indians were slaughtered because they were indians
blacks were enslaved because they were black
witches were burned alive, drowned in rivers, and hung, all in the name of god
thousands of japs were locked up (ilegally) because peral harbor was bombed
germans were looked on with distrust because of the nazi
hippies were criticized because they were drug addicted communists
russians were feared and distrusted because of the USSR
hackers were hated and feared because they stole your data

and now "terrorists" are the new "evil threat to our way of life"

people rapidly accept this because the term terrorist seems to surely evil, where hackers were good bad and inbetween and communism actually works well in small groups but fails almost immediatly when used in large populations

yes, "terrorist" is the buzzword of all buzzwords
even though your chances of being attacked by terrorists are less than being struck by lightning, people get scared and find more reason to trust their government when this buzzword is spoken.

there is no reason to live in fear of terrorists just as there is no reason to live in fear of hackers or being struck by lightning
yes, they do exist, but the chances of you being attacked are so small that there's nothing you can really do to decrease your chances further

the people in government want us to live in fear so they can keep their jobs and sleep in their mansions while the people they suposedly represent can barely afford rent and food.
how?
if we realize there is no terrorist threat then they lose our support and get voted out at the next election which means no more lobbyist bribes (gifts?) for them.

go ahead and cry about the "terrorist threat", it doens't change the statistics that say you will probably be stuck by lightning long before you are attacked by the terrorists you fear so much without reason.




oh my god a cloud!
run for your lives everybody, it's a cloud!!!
you might get hit by lightning thus increasing your chances of being attacked by terrorists!!!!!


[edit on 11-8-2006 by wondernut]

I've just posted news from foxnews that the suspects are believed to have an Al Quaeda connection (what connection I don't know yet). Here's another one from Reuters if you don't like fox...

Pakistan says al Qaeda member held over foiled plot

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Pakistan said on Friday it had arrested an al Qaeda operative who played a key role in a foiled U.K. bomb plot.

Now, I'm not saying you have to believe what everyone says but why can't you believe? No offense, but isn't it a bit hypocritical to say 'believe only the alternative theories but don't believe anyone else"?

I'm not sayinig Al Qaeda is behind this yet. But if not them at this point, who? And if you say it was the government then please tell me how. Are you saying they are just grabbing Arabs off the streets and saying they did it and that they have Al Qaeda connections when they really don't? Wouldn't people find out?

I've never been able to truly understand why people think the government needed to pull of 9/11 themselves(other than to attribute it to their own ignorance). Bin Laden and Co. don't need any help to hate America or to want to kill Americans. America is occupying their holylands(Saudi Arabia). America the great satan. The infidel Christian nation. The supreme nation of the decadent west. The facts are the seeds of 9/11 were planted during Operation Desert Storm. Mainly from the fact that we didn't leace after the conflict.

Pat Buchanan warned against intervening in 91 stating that this will not be the last Arab-American War. Prophetic words. ODS led to 9/11 which led to the current conflict.

Sticking with the role of devil's advocate....

Originally posted by wondernut
but honestly, what has Al Qaeda been responsible for in the past few years?

Amman Jordan, the bombing of the wedding party? Bali?

But I don't know how important that is, anyway, since it was 8 years between the two attacks on the WTC.

Remember that before 9/11, they were pretty much unchallenged. Now, they are actively being chased around the globe. Some of their plans have been disrupted before they ever got to an operational stage. That's stuff we probably will never hear about. But it accomplishes our goal, nonetheless.

also, why have NONE of these "terrorists" had backup plans?
how is it that these "terrorists" can manage to plot such extravagant plots and yet never manage to use secure or encrypted conversations?

Two things to consider:
How do you know they are not using encryption?
I think you underestimate the capabilities of the NSA.

there is no reason to live in fear of terrorists just as there is no reason to live in fear of hackers or being struck by lightning

There's a difference between living in fear and being vigilant. And I can be vigilant without having to spend any extra time in my life.

if we realize there is no terrorist threat then they lose our support and get voted out at the next election which means no more lobbyist bribes (gifts?) for them.

I, for one, am not ready to say that there is no terrorist threat. Your stats on being hit by one may be correct, but that doesn't mean there is no threat. I still get inside during a lightning storm, I look to see that the elevator floor is there when the doors open, and I wear my seatbelt. I play the odds in my own favor. But, that's just me.

As far as sacrificing freedom for safety, I don't personally know anybody who has lost any. And I don't look at it that way; the way I see it, we've given up innocence for caution.

I see Fox news was quoted, hahaha.
Anyway, as a means to succinctly connect dots here, I see 2 things:
(1) Al Queda have a hatred for America, a hatred for the people, of Western culture.
(2) The Illuminati have no care nor concern for the American people, would happily destroy Western culture in a heartbeat, particularly if it meant we skip to "Timeline 2" (that's if you follow the Dan Burisch angle).

Both these groups have a common bond. Same aims, same goals, one is being blinded and manipulated by their misguided religious belief system, the other providing the resources to do the job - or at least stir up the fear and chaos. One way or another, they are working hand-in-hand to ensure our mutual destruction.

Too many of you are stuck on "the government" involvement. It's not "government". It's Illuminati. They know no geographic bounds. No nationalistic preference. Pull the strings anywhere, anytime, to ensure their power base remains unflappable. This way, Jews get blamed, Muslims get blamed, Bush gets blamed, all takes the heat off the real muck-rakers. The real movers and shakers are unseen hands. Not government.

Originally posted by kuhl
Whatever

The war on terror started AFTER 9/11 so this would be happening anyways.

The war on terror ( actually the war on freedom) started thousands of years ago but it's been going in it's current incarnation ( US/British) for very many decades now. According to Alex Jones his got a a presidential order telling the FBI to 'BACK THE HELL OFF' when they were basically exposing the 9/11 plot. I have not checked out that particular claim but it does not change the fact that state terror kills people by the million where individual terror hardly disrupts traffic on most occasions.

Stellar

Originally posted by undecided2
The "illegal War on Terror?" What does that even mean. What about the illegal destruction of the twin towers?

It means that no country is supposed to take the law into it's own hands and start attacking whoever it wants with no proof. We can always declare the Geneva conventions null and void when it's main tenant is so clearly ignored.

Oh yeah, the US govt blew those up. Grow up people. I knew this would happen when I heard the news reports this morning...I knew you folks would be screaming inside job!

One does not have to place the bombs to be responsible for a crime if your duty includes preventing such crimes from happening. Not taking action on clear information is no less deserving of condemnation.

I am tired of hearing people defend these fascists who want to kill me for no reason!

The fascists you should really be worried about are those who formerly worked in the Kremlin that are now running the show in Washington. Terror works best when it's persistent, consistent and bureaucratically ( without emotion ) conducted and it's the reason's states excel at it. The saddest thing is that while people watch their backs ( for suspect looking arabs/blacks/martians) their governments will stab them right in the heart and offer them a nice hospital bed in which to bleed to do all the resultant 'liberty bleeding'.

Don't go looking for evil in the shadows when it's always been aiming for the presidency. Deny them overt control and they will be stuck in the shadows where one can fight them with flashlighs and matches.

Stellar

Originally posted by danwild6
Bin Laden and Co. don't need any help to hate America or to want to kill Americans. America is occupying their holylands(Saudi Arabia). America the great satan.

Saudi arabia asked the US to come and they asked the US to stay.
Kuwait likes the US
Iraqis like the US except for a small minority, YES A SMALL MINORITY

From what I heard during the first Gulf war osama offered aid to the saudis but was turned down. THis is more about osama's feelings being hurt then anything...

The main thing we should learn from the British plot bust is that these plans can be foiled right up to the last minute, and that Dubya should stop bleating about 9/11 as if nothing could have been done to stop it.

The other thing to remember from it is that it was tips from fellow Muslims that helped uncover the plot. For all those folks screaming for genocide or calling Islam a murderous religion, this should provide some evidence to the contrary. Should.

Originally posted by Mr_Peel
The main thing we should learn from the British plot bust is that these plans can be foiled right up to the last minute, and that Dubya should stop bleating about 9/11 as if nothing could have been done to stop it.

The other thing to remember from it is that it was tips from fellow Muslims that helped uncover the plot. For all those folks screaming for genocide or calling Islam a murderous religion, this should provide some evidence to the contrary. Should.

Well, there are too many EXCELLENT points in this for me to just waste everybody's time pointing them out since I agree with ALL of it. So I'll say "yeah, what he said" and give you a WATS vote.

You have voted Mr_Peel for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Originally posted by American Madman
Saudi arabia asked the US to come and they asked the US to stay.

The Saudi royalty family invited the US military to insure that the monarchy can continue to enslave the people of saudi.

Kuwait likes the US

Where else could a sheik get free military might and cheap labor to install gold plumbing

Iraqis like the US except for a small minority, YES A SMALL MINORITY

Please freaking enlighten us as to which iraqis like the US occupation best. Which ones?

1. the dead iraqis?
   
2. the maimed iraqis?
   
3. the ones that have had family members killed and/or maimed?
   
4. or the ones that have merely had everything they own destroyed?

Originally posted by Mr_Peel
The main thing we should learn from the British plot bust is that these plans can be foiled right up to the last minute, and that Dubya should stop bleating about 9/11 as if nothing could have been done to stop it.

Well, remember that things were a lot different, pre-9/11. The degree of security and awareness, and the proactive efforts of intelligence groups are much higher now.

The other thing to remember from it is that it was tips from fellow Muslims that helped uncover the plot. For all those folks screaming for genocide or calling Islam a murderous religion, this should provide some evidence to the contrary. Should.

It was not out of a sense of civic duty; it's because they were interrogated. And who knows the level of coercion that suspects are put to in Pakistan?

A Pakistani intelligence official told AP an Islamic militant arrested near the Afghan-Pakistan border several weeks ago provided a lead that played a role in "unearthing the plot." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue.

www.cnn.com...

Originally posted by df1

Iraqis like the US except for a small minority, YES A SMALL MINORITY

Please freaking enlighten us as to which iraqis like the US occupation best. Which ones?

1. the dead iraqis?
   
2. the maimed iraqis?
   
3. the ones that have had family members killed and/or maimed?
   
4. or the ones that have merely had everything they own destroyed?
   

The ones who can now elect their government... People were getting murdered there before we went there.

Originally posted by American Madman
People were getting murdered there before we went there.

Damn right!

We can't allow iraqis to murder iraqis, these iraqis need to be murdered and raped by americans. What was that "iraqi madman", saddam, thinking?