Shots Fired at Protest in Crawford

Welcome to PTS and slugfest, Benevolent heretic...it's a very peaceful place, usually.
Tell me, how long have you been a hippie? I was 18 in 1965 and I know all about hippies, yippies and greasers, believe me.

Ah...those were the days, long ago, when people died defending their beliefs or burning suburbs (besides other substances.

I didn't get a prewarning warning, and I wasn't even talking about a member of the board.

Originally posted by masqua
Tell me, how long have you been a hippie? I was 18 in 1965 and I know all about hippies, yippies and greasers, believe me.

I'm a little younger than you but always hung out with people much older than myself. I was born a hippie.

OAKDALE, Minn. - Former FBI whistleblower Coleen Rowley, along with a state senator whose son died in Iraq, are headed to Texas this week to join a growing anti-war demonstration near President Bush's ranch.

Ex FBI Whistleblower and Senator join Cindy

Originally posted by C0le

So by your definition we should right now be nuking Iraq, Iran, France, Germany, China, Canada, Mexico, any state with smart people/blue state, England, Russia, Australia, Antartica, and anywhere else that has one person who doesn't like the War for Oil.

Sure why not.

Thats the funniest thing I have read all day! Except for France, I know it was a joke.......

Originally posted by C0le

Originally posted by curme
What do you say to Iraqi veteran's who come back and protest the war? Did they earn the right to disagree with you?

Yes.

And I also would say yes, but how much of that do you see? And if you do see it, you usually see it done with respect for the CiC. Instead you see a few cases of individuals who did not make it to Canada in time.


Ask the folks in the military how they feel about that one!

He probably served the same place that Bush did, anywhere but where the war was.

Anyways, Hippies, what did they do, started the Love not War movement during Vietnam, started the women are more then baby machines that died out with Susan B. Anthony's death, supported the people not the republicans, so Hippies be proud of being more then meat puppets for the people with money/power.

Spelling/typo

[edit on 17-8-2005 by James the Lesser]

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Anyways, Hippies, what did they do, started the Love not War movement during Vietnam...

Don't forget the bra-burning!

And I don't need anyone telling me what rights I have. The neocons of this world have no basis to say who has a right to protests and who doesn't. It's made very clear by the documents I hold so dear.

We, the people... That means red, black, white, old, young, neocon, hippie, poor, rich, big, small, fat and skinny! No amount of anger or bitterness can take my rights away, thank you very much.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

And I don't need anyone telling me what rights I have. The neocons of this world have no basis to say who has a right to protests and who doesn't. It's made very clear by the documents I hold so dear.

We, the people... That means red, black, white, old, young, neocon, hippie, poor, rich, big, small, fat and skinny! No amount of anger or bitterness can take my rights away, thank you very much.

I would agree for the most part except that in some of these cases, American lives are being put at GREATER risk because of the Anti-War movement. This is FACT.

They couldnt wait to expose abu-Grab or whatever een though they KNEW the outrage would cost lives, not just American lives......They will do anything to discredit the United States just to get at Bush!

Thats sad.

Ed says......They will do anything to discredit the United States just to get at Bush!


Is he not the president and comander in chief?
The order giver?

[edit on 18-8-2005 by dgtempe]

Originally posted by dgtempe
Ed says......They will do anything to discredit the United States just to get at Bush!


Is he not the president and comander in chief?

The order giver?

I guess so, so when you hate him enough to do things that COST American lives unnecessarily, where do you draw the line?


dg, read this mans replies in this thread, and let me know what you think.
tell me you look at things the same.

Originally posted by edsinger
MajorCee

Originally posted by edsinger
I would agree for the most part except that in some of these cases, American lives are being put at GREATER risk because of the Anti-War movement. This is FACT.

No, that is not fact. Where's the data? That's your assumption. That's your opinion. That is not fact. A fact is something you can prove with data. It's scientific and I know you have issues with science, but what you're saying is not actual fact.

And I actually don't hate Bush. I think he's a really terrible president, but I don't hate the man. I don't want to 'get at' him. I just want him to give someone else a chance to fix the things he's ruined.

Ok you can not tell me that the division in the United States is not contributing to the hate that is being garnered to the US?

The terrorists cheer every time a car bomb kills more troops and the press covers it and the anti-war nuts scream bloody murder and compare Bush to Hitler? You don't think that Al Jezzera plays into this? It is the aim of the antiwar crowd to get the US to pull out before the job is complete, they will use what ever methods that will further their cause and we all know it.

The prison scandal is a perfect example, it got the war in bad press and Americans DIED because of it.

Muslim hate is being fed by this and you know it.


Why does the press never have any of the good things in Iraq? the schools, the hospitals, the power plants, etc etc etc? It doesn't fit their agenda..



So yes, its FACT. It harms the Commander in Chiefs ability to conduct a war in which HE did not start, it started BEFORE he ever took office.

Originally posted by edsinger
Ok you can not tell me that the division in the United States is not contributing to the hate that is being garnered to the US?

Well, you certainly have some strong opinions there, Ed, but I'm afraid that's all they are. We disagree on almost everything as we've mentioned before.

The division in this country existed before Cindy Sheehan ever became a household word and it wasn't the liberals or the liberal media that divided us.

That prison 'scandal' was brought on by the people who created it. They got caught. Whatever 'scandal' occurred is because people weren't treating prisoners right, not because someone told the truth. Let's blame the responsible parties here. And yes, Americans died because of it. Shame on them for doing something that would surely cost American (and other) lives!

So, Bush didn't start the war, huh? I don't know, Ed. I don't know if we can come to a common ground on this one. As far as I recall, congress gave Bush permission to use force and he found a way to do it, whether it was true or not.

[edit on 18-8-2005 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by Benevolent HereticSo, Bush didn't start the war, huh? I don't know, Ed. I don't know if we can come to a common ground on this one. As far as I recall, congress gave Bush permission to use force and he found a way to do it, whether it was true or not.

We were already at war, long before 2003 and Iraq.

I would think that,

TWA800
Ok City
African Embassies
USS Cole
WTC 1


shall I go on?



The war was already there, Iraq was just another theatre of the same war.

Again I will ask you to read this mans post,

MajorCee

Ed, I totally disagree with every premise in MajorCee's post. To me, that's just another side of the story, the story I've been saying is a lie for years. Why would reading all of that again change my mind?

Bush has really done a great job of overseeing the war except in one area.

The number one strategy on the Bush team has been to get Islamic forces in the Middle and far east to oppose Al Qaeda.

In addition to removing Iraq as possible supplier of nuclear weapons, which was the main reason for the Iraq invasion, other things happened to further
help us.

I simply don't believe any of this. I've heard this before. People come up with a 'good' reason for having this war. I don't buy it.

Bush has done a crappy job of everything he's done. He's not even in control of the office. The number one strategy on the Bush team has been the New World Order. For the US to assume power over the affluent world, basically, and that includes the American people.

See, these are my opinions, so MajorCee's post, although very well-written and thought-out, means nothing to me. You have your opinions and I'm not interested in changing them, but I'm not going to change mine either.

Another Arrest at Camp Casey.

This guy made terrorist threats to protestors and told deputies he was a Secret Service agent.

Seems the only way they can 'get to her' is illegally.

It was the third incident involving protesters since Sunday...

Benevolent, they are hopeless GOP Kool-Aid drinkers. They will support their agenda right into the depths of Hell. I particularly like this quote:

Bush has really done a great job of overseeing the war except in one area.

I couldn't stop laughing at that one. Anybody who actually looked into just how far back this administration has been drooling at the prospect of going into Iraq would know that they drafted the first plan prior to September 11. The way it was originally set up was much more dedicated to restoring the infrastructure and noting the importance of not dismantling the Iraqi military. And then, the brilliant dopes they are, they scrapped it all just before the invasion and drafted a new one under new planners that completely left our forces vulnerable and in the position of being police. THIS is a big reason why people are dying in Iraq today. And George W. Bush is most definitely not doing a good job overseeing operations in Iraq. And he's damn near forgotten about Afghanistan. You all remember Afghanistan, don't you?

Some long, but important reading.
To familiarize yourselves.

Originally posted by CyberianHuskyI couldn't stop laughing at that one. Anybody who actually looked into just how far back this administration has been drooling at the prospect of going into Iraq would know that they drafted the first plan prior to September 11.

Funny you would mention that one,



I remember reading somewhere that plans were drawn up during the Clinton administration by DOD request, for the possibility of an Invasion. Something to the effect is that the military had to have a plan ready if it came to that or something. The war plans only changed when Afghanistan came into the picture.

for those of you woundering he was NOT arrested, he did fire his gun Legally. the protesters were tresspassing on his land and refused to leave, he fired his 12 guage semi automatic shotgun into the air. This is actually totally legal as long as he doesnt threaten anyone, or point the weapon at anyone. Secret service agents saw the even take place.

2 of my friends are officers assigned to Bush ranch and told me the whole story.

He claims he fired the gun preparing for dove season, lol and when they asked him if there was any other reason he simply said. "you figure it out."

Originally posted by umwolves123
for those of you woundering he was NOT arrested, he did fire his gun Legally.

You are correct. I think we all know that Larry Mattlage was not arrested and that he didn't do anything illegal. The other 2 men were arrested, though. The one who ran over the crosses and the one who made terrorist threats to protestors and told deputies he was a Secret Service agent.

I'm just trying to keep all the protester assaults in this one thread.