Bruce Lee's death

part of Bruce Lee's problem was "jeet kune do" it's self. Lee was always trying to compensate for small stature through building up 'explosive force'. One of his great quotes is that 100 pounds won't hurt you, if it lands on you grandually, but 10 pounds can take your head off, if delivered in a split second.

So he went about trying to build up this 'explosive force'. You build up alot of power for a sudden release. Like the bow and arrow. Of courese how often to bow strings snap. When you treat your body and being that way, well it's harder to replace than a bow string. Naturally this is a very violent method, and creats a great strain on the body. His death isn't that surprising.

A similar thing happened to the Kennedy's. Diamond Joe pushed them very hard. It was how you creat winners. Of course when you're willing to do what ever it takes, then that covers some terroritory. They fought hard, they played hard, and they had alot of accidents along the way. Only the slob of the family, the Kennedy's own 'Bobby Hill" Teddy, lived. Taoism demonstrated.

People become such experts at 'playing the game' that everything has been figured out, and they've forgotten how to live. "Who cares" if you get what you want? You become so goal oriented that you lose your way.



[edit on 28-8-2005 by GrandCourtJester]

Originally posted by Disaster_Boy
Chuck Norris vs Bruce Lee...?

Hmm... I think bruce would simply be too quick for him unfortunately. too quick and as was said 'win at all costs' and knowing where to inflict the most damage with the least energy exherted.

Jackie Chan vs bruce lee... Now I wouls pay top dollar for that one.

Chuck Norris was a multiple time world champion. That's real fighting. Jackie Chan is an entertainer. Unless there's some flowerpots that Jackie can launch at Norris with a mid-air roundhouse kick or a ladder that he can twirl around, Norris would destroy him. Chuck Norris in his prime was a real-life badass.

Sorry for continuing this thread a little off topic. Maybe Bruce Lee vs. Chuck Norris would make a good thread in itself.

Peace

Didn't Bruce Lee teach Chuck Norris, and wasn't Norris a heavy in one of Lee's films? I'm sure there's a scene where Lee reaches up and pulls the hair out of Norris chest.

What about Jackie Chan vs Christopher Lee?



[edit on 3-9-2005 by GrandCourtJester]

Wikipedia says this about Bruce Lee versus Chuck Norris (although that means little... I'm not saying this is true, but it is awesome...)

en.wikipedia.org...

[...]
But another important moment happened in 1964: at a demonstration in Long Beach, Norris met the soon to be famous, Bruce Lee, who would ingrain Norris in martial arts history forever with his portrayal as Lee's nemesis in The Way of the Dragon. But while the two were publicly friendly, contrary to what many (including Norris himself) state, they were not close friends. Lee had repeatedly humiliated Norris during a mock sparring session in the hotel hallway at the Long Beach International Karate Championships in 1964. And Norris had offended Lee when he publicly claimed to be a better fighter than Lee. When word got back to Lee, he called Norris and openly challenged him, threatening to drive to his school to fight (Norris was teaching his black belt class at that time). According to eye witnesses, Lee made Norris hold the phone receiver up and shout in front of his black belts, "Bruce Lee is a better fighter than me!" Later, Norris wrote an apologetic letter to Lee; the original letter is currently in the care of Lee's student, Dan Insanato. Yet despite these conflicts, the two managed to set aside any differences in pursuit of their mutual film aspirations and develop a friendly public persona toward one another.

Pretty cool, I'd say.

Like I said, Lee v. Norris would be over quickly, with Lee as the victor. His wife said that Bruce defeated the guy sent by the Chinese Mafia when he'd been teaching white people in San Fran. She said, "The fight lasted about two or three minutes".

Okay everybody, as facinating as this thread is, it is rapidly losing its medical focus and should be moved to BTS Movies if it keeps up.

So please stay on topic with this one Mmmmmkay?

Okay, so the question is: "how could a young man in peek physical condition die with no clear medical explanation?".

Here are some possiblities:

• cover up
  
• black magic, "Black Taosits" and the 'touch of death'
  
• over training, or flaws in the system of Jeet Kun Do
  
• assasignated/poisoned by the Hong Kong mob
  
• congenital defect like the kind that sometimes cause healthy adults to have unexplained strokes or aneurysm
  

Um..

There was a medical explanation...

Specially if we take into account his drug use and physiology.

Quick reminderage:

Prior to his death, he'd suffered seizures and a non-fatal cerebral edema. His autopsy found marijuana in his stomach and traces of Equagesic (aspirin and meprobamate painkillers); the common theory being he was absurdly allergic to one or all substances (true allergies to marijuana are much less common than allergies to aspirin, and meprobamate is a tranquiliser of sorts).

The probability is that Lee's own unique physiological makeup (at the time of his death his body fat ratio was at the 1-5% range, which is abnormally low) contributed in some way to a fatal reaction to the painkiller or some other medication (perhaps anabolic steroids, for which he tested positive). Then again, he was also under the care of a herbalist, who may have "prescribed" something that didn't quite work as intended; perhaps it was a combination of these factors.


[edit on 7-9-2005 by Tinkleflower]

whatever it was that killed Bruce lee...it was not POT.

Pot has claimed zero lives in all of recorded history.... it was probably the conditions he had combined with abnormally low body fat.. and his extreme workouts.. and possibly the aspirin which caouses thousands of deaths.

But leave the pot out of it.. it had nothing to do with his death.

Bruce had discovered more than anyone could have imagined. He discovered the universal truth. The very rules that you or I live within can and do get bent. Bruce was one of the first people in the public eye to try and express this.

First and foremost Bruce was a thinker, he realised that thoughts are most powerful but only if they are turned into actions. Bruce discovered that all the other forms of fighting had a rigid style, a set Patten, a predictable state of movement.

Alot of forms of martial arts also are very wasteful in terms of chi flow.

Bruce realised that the way to reach true enlightenment is to be totally free of bounds. To have no direction but that of what is required.

This is in fact a truism as this principle can be applied to just about anything you can think of.

Most people will remember Bruce for his mastery of his own body and the development of Jeet Kune Do.

What Bruce should be remembered for the most was the gift of freedom of mind he was trying so hard to transmit to all and everyone who was willing to listen to him.

Bruce and Brandon will never be forgotten.

I only wish Linda and Shannon a happy ever after.

NeoN HaZe

Originally posted by TONE23
Pot has claimed zero lives in all of recorded history.... it was probably the conditions he had combined with abnormally low body fat.. and his extreme workouts.. and possibly the aspirin which caouses thousands of deaths.

Myth: No One Has Ever Died From Using Marijuana

The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts. That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving. There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents - some of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana, more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5% used both pot and alcohol in combination. This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol.

Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. In addition, of course, the psychoactive effects of cannabis can have many other adverse effects on performance, school work, and productivity.

www.canorml.org...


Regarding Bruce Lee though, I don't know the cause of death.


[edit on 25-9-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by Rasputin13
I was always under the impression that Bruce Lee died from a masturbation accident involving the "touch of death." Since it's an embarrassing situation, his death was covered up to protect him and his family's image.

Or maybe my mom just made that story up along with the "you'll go blind if you do it..." stories she told me.

ROFLMAO That is a new one! Now I have to be more carefull.

Originally posted by saint4God

Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. In addition, of course, the psychoactive effects of cannabis can have many other adverse effects on performance, school work, and productivity.

www.canorml.org...
Regarding Bruce Lee though, I don't know the cause of death.

He ment that the use of marijuana doesn't directly kill anyone. This is true. I can die from spinning in a circle until dizzy provided I am stupid enough to drive my car or operate dangerous machinery while under the "influence." Nice try though.

[edit on 25-9-2006 by DaFunk13]

Originally posted by DaFunk13
He ment that the use of marijuana doesn't directly kill anyone.

Problem number one is that what was meant was not what was said. Problem number two is that it implies there is no danger to marijuana whereas this article describes otherwise.

Originally posted by DaFunk13
This is true. I can die from spinning in a circle until dizzy provided I am stupid enough to drive my car or operate dangerous machinery while under the "influence." Nice try though.

Why argue with me? I didn't write the article, have a PhD in medicine, nor work at a hospital emergency center.

[edit on 25-9-2006 by saint4God]

I had no idea he was dead! Ive been looking at the news sites, no wonder I didnt find anything.
DOH!!!

You have to think of your film star in the negative? why,simply because he was the best, and knew it and taunted everyone,he had simply sent out a subtle message 2 every practionere,white or black to keep it simple,and his son suffered in the making of the crow,i.e. he died,which I thought far more strange than anything else,it would really be nice to see the end off all this crap,from 4th dimensional reprobates,come on you dinos,let us see how good you really are,you cannot face the human race,and yet we used to walk together,you I

Originally posted by saint4God

Myth: No One Has Ever Died From Using Marijuana

The Kaiser study also found that daily pot users have a 30% higher risk of injuries, presumably from accidents. These figures are significant, though not as high as comparable risks for heavy drinkers or tobacco addicts. That pot can cause accidents is scarcely surprising, since marijuana has been shown to degrade short-term memory, concentration, judgment, and coordination at complex tasks including driving. There have been numerous reports of pot-related accidents - some of them fatal, belying the attractive myth that no one has ever died from marijuana. One survey of 1023 emergency room trauma patients in Baltimore found that fully 34.7% were under the influence of marijuana, more even than alcohol (33.5%); half of these (16.5% used both pot and alcohol in combination. This is perhaps the most troublesome research ever reported about marijuana; as we shall see, other accident studies have generally found pot to be less dangerous than alcohol.

Nonetheless, it is important to be informed on all sides of the issue. Pot smokers should be aware that accidents are the number one hazard of moderate pot use. In addition, of course, the psychoactive effects of cannabis can have many other adverse effects on performance, school work, and productivity.

canorml.org

Regarding Bruce Lee though, I don't know the cause of death.

Nice try... but I mean that POT has never DIRECTLY killed anyone... and you can die from accidents while being completely sober... you have no arguement here... also try googling Marijuana on ATS and youll come up with a number of threads I have contributed to that will kill anything you can try to muster on the POT issue. I will happily debate you in ANY of those threads. but for now this is not the thread for that discussion


Back to topic:

original quote by: Neon Haze
What Bruce should be remembered for the most was the gift of freedom of mind he was trying so hard to transmit to all and everyone who was willing to listen to him.

I heard him loud and clear...
Your dead on too... most have no idea of his philosophical genius. I used to have a couple books written by him.. but they have been stolen a few years back. Great books and it was awesome to actually see how he thought in his own words...

[edit on 9/30/2006 by TONE23]

I am a Jeet Kune Do practitioner and have studied the life of Bruce Lee for many years.

There were a number of factors that led to his untimely death:

1. Lee overtrained.

Weight loss and bone loss are indications of this and he had them both. Six months prior to his death he had a physical breakdown that put him in the hospital. Lee would jog in the morning and then intensely train during the day - six days a week - and then also work on movie projects into the late hours. His sexual escapades probably also contributed to his dissipation. People commented that it seemed he never went to bed at all.

No one can live that way and survive for very long.

Another indication of overtraining is that one has difficulty sleeping at night.

2. Lee DID NOT drink alcohol. He hated it, along with cheese. However, what he did like to do was CHEW HASH.

3. The prescription pain killer that he took at the apartment of a Chinese actress in Hong Kong - for a severe headache, which is another indication of overtraining - caused an allergic reaction and his brain swelled. He was already significantly weakened from excessive fatigue, overtraining, and chewing hash. The allergic reaction with the above conditions resulted in a very serious and life threatening situation.

There are rumors that while he was in the hospital, a soft style practitioner of Dim Mak or "death touch" helped his death along. This is evidenced by his autopsy which revealed broken blood vessels in his lungs - a characteristic of Dim Mak. But broken blood vessels in the lungs could also be caused by other things, so I am not completely convinced that the death touch was used on him. On the other hand, there were many martial artists who were very jealous of Lee so I think it is not entirely impossible that someone acted (possibly with others) to ensure that he would not recover.

As far as Lee being promiscuous and fooling around behind Linda, that is quite true. He was purportedly having an affair with that Chinese actress who gave him the prescription painkiller which resulted in his coma and eventual death.

Lee also liked to carry around a card that he showed to pretty girls which read: "If you want to sleep with me...smile."

But when Lee was in top shape, as he was obsessed with being in nothing short of Olympic condition, people in his presence felt that they were around some kind of superhuman.

There was speculation about what would have happened if Bruce Lee and Muhammad Ali were to have it out in a room. Many felt that Lee would win. Ali would probably have been able to take more punishment but Lee had more power in his punches as well as in his kicks.

Regarding kicking ability and penetrating power, Lee's students would hold an air shield for him to do a modified version of a flying side kick - the JKD slide side kick. The same kick he did to Bob Wall in Enter The Dragon that propelled Wall back into the crowd. To Lee's students, when he did that kick to the air shield, it was not like a kickboxer kicking a bag but more like being hit by a car! *L*

Lee boasted that he had 200 pounds of thrust with his side kick. Enough to knock down a 200 pound man!

I don't think that anyone on the US International Karate Team in the 1960s (Skipper Mullins, Mike Stone, Chuck Norris, and Joe Lewis) could have beaten Bruce Lee in a kickboxing match. Joe Lewis was the most muscular and the most formidable of the team and would have given Lee the hardest time of it, but he didn't have the hand speed or the overall hand and foot power - although he came close. Lee also had the ability to get in on an opponent that even seasoned fighters have difficulty mastering. You first had to hit Lee in order to hurt him. Most fighters were not fast enough to get in on him in order to sink in a serious blow - while also managing to not get hit from Lee in the process!

What Lee should have done after filming for Enter The Dragon was wrapped up completely, is to take a six-month long sabbatical. No women, no hash, watered down workouts, lots of relaxation, no herbs, and lots of vitamin supplementation, organic meals, and fresh vegetables; so his body could heal internally.

This is perhaps the most important object lesson that we can all learn from Bruce Lee's death...

If you are ever given the opportunity to get in outstanding physical condition and make a blockbuster film, participate in the Olympics, or break a Guinness World Record (like breaking the most boards in an hour): put your ego, your drugs, your partying, your overtraining, and your overactive sex drive on hold, and take a long vacation while also avoiding the media and the press.

You will then be able to battle your demons more effectively and be able to bask in the glory of stardom, wealth, and success for many more years than Lee did; keeping in mind that he only really achieved superstardom after the release of Enter The Dragon - weeks after his death.

[edit on 30-9-2006 by Paul_Richard]

Paul_Richard I know exactly what your talking about I use to self train myself and push myself really hard and often get headache, light headed and pass out frequently.

I used to not care and ignored pain and keep on doing it until one day that I almost die.

What happen is I was sleeping and as I was getting up. My body started to shut down. Now it gets worse I started to have a hard time moving at a few seconds my body just stop. Then I started to stop breathing!!!!!!!!!!

I forced myself to breath as best I can (it was one of the painful thing I felt in my life physical) and barely escaped death.



After that just stop training and now sometime hurts just walking. Luckily my breathing is fine and think about self training myself I'm going to take easy for now on.

Everyone tell me about Bruce Lee death and I really knew nothing about how he die but I alway say I "he might die from training to hard." After what happen to me I can see why. He also the reason why I trained like that he is my hero in many ways but after putting myself in that situation I see why he die so young.

R.I.P.
Bruce Lee

Hi El Che,

Your experience with overtraining is a lesson to us all

Another problem is the way that most people train in general in the martial arts. Many of those exercises lead to problems in the joints, tissues, and bones later on in life. Lets face it, our bodies degenerate with age anyway, but they can become weaker faster if the exercises are wrong and if vitamins of the right kind and dosage are not taken along the way.

For example, a common ailment among aging martial artists (from all the kicking) is the need for surgical hip replacement. Chuck Norris went through that. Eric Roberts (brother of Julia) faces that now.

The first thing I recommend is taking the right nutritional supplementation and eating healthily. Eat a salad with carrots, celery, and lettuce (but not iceberg) at least once a day. Avoid pork, pork sausage, and ham completely, as they are very hard to digest. Eat beef sparingly and then only organic beef. Chicken, turkey and eggs (the last once in a while) are okay. Pasta made with filtered or spring water and with an upscale sauce (like Rao's Homemade Marinara) is good too. Look into Quorn products in the frozen section. Especially their nuggets, as they go great with Kosciusko mustard and some veggies; they even work well on salads.

According to our nutritional doctor, there are three tiers of vitamin supplements. The first tier is the cheap vitamins that have many additives and fillers which you will find in convenience stores and supermarkets. The second tier of vitamins are those found in stores like The Vitamin Shoppe and Whole Foods Market (not GNC or Trader Joes). The third tier of vitamins are found in those companies which stress purity in their supplements, like Nordic Naturals and Natures Sunshine Products (NSP) for example.

For nutritional supplementation for the joints, tissues, bones, and heart (and in general), I highly recommend the following:

1. Coral Calcium;

2. Solgar Vegetarian Softgel Vitamin E (one 400 I.U. with breakfast and one after dinner);

3. One Omega 3 with breakfast and one after dinner, with one Omega 3-6-9 with lunch; and,

4. Two capsules of Ester-C twice a day.

BoswelliSyn from Garden of Life is a superior supplement for joints and tissues (arguably better than Glucosamine and Chondroitin products), and is only available through a nutritional doctor (ND) or a medical doctor (MD). But I have found that the Nordic Naturals Omega 3 products listed above ACTUALLY WORK BETTER for joints and tissues.

BTW, Omega 3 products are also natural anti-depressants - amending any need for using St. John's Wort or an alternative prescription medication.

Secondly, learn to train without doing jump kicks and spin back kicks on a regular basis.

Third, hit a light (not heavy) bag only once in a while, not with every workout. It isn't necessary to hit a bag often. After one has done some bag training and knows how to hit correctly, one can develop strength, power and endurance in other ways that are not as abrasive to the body. Most martial artists don't realize (and are never taught) this important point.

An illustration...

I have a long kicking and punching bag, with water in its base, in the basement of my parent's house. Years ago I would kick and punch it intensely and occasionally managed to knock it over with a single blow.

Then I moved out and couldn't use the bag as much, had more trouble with my joints (which I overcame) and developed a therapeutic training program that turned out to be better for developing power than the bag training was.

I assume you know what a side kick is. Try this in your next workout, after warming up. It is a DECEPTIVELY SIMPLE, YET EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE EXERCISE which I call the Precision Side Kick Drill.

From your fighting stance and without holding on to anything, slowly perform a side kick with your lead leg, aimed at mid level, and slowly come back down with precision. Strive to do it without wobbling. You want control, not speed, in this exercise. (That is the key.) Then shift your weight and do the other leg exactly the same way.

Doing both legs like I describe it is one set. Do ten of them. Stop, rest a minute, then do ten more sets - slowly and with control. You'll wobble a lot but with time you will develop your muscles in a way whereby your side kick ability will significantly increase without hurting your joints and tissues in the process.

Try it

God, I wish they taught me this when I was a teenager in Tae-kwon-do class back in the 1970s.

I do only two or three sets of the above per workout - twice a week - along with some JKD shadow boxing, dynamic tension, front kicks (without bending the knee), and some turning kick-hook kick sets. I also do a lot of walking and lifting in my job.

After a number of months, I went back to the basement and kicked the bag with a JKD slide side kick. The same kick used on Bob Wall by Bruce Lee in Enter The Dragon.

You know what happened?

POW!!

WITH EACH KICK FROM THE LEAD LEG I KNOCKED THE BAG DOWN ON THE FIRST TRY.

Once again, the Precision Side Kick Drill is a deceptively simple and extremely effective exercise for improving power in one’s kick without hurting the joints and tissues in the process.

Finally, I highly recommend pursuing the self-healing modality of Qigong (Chi Gong) on a regular basis.

Omega 3 supplements alone might have spared Bruce Lee a premature death

Here's to your health as a martial artist



[edit on 1-10-2006 by Paul_Richard]

I beleive their is no overall conspiracy over Bruce Lee due to he died of medical causes and his autopsy their for proves this, though his son is more likly of chance to have one, due to it being a gun what was meant to have blanks i was told.

Maybe somone didn't want him to become famous like Bruce Lee etc..?