Remembering the significance of the 1981 hunger strikes in Long Kesh

Sands
Hughes
McCreesh
O'Hara
McDonnell
Hurson
Lynch
Doherty
McElwee
Devine

These are the names permanently affixed into the memories of those who wished to see an Irish nation.

in 1981, in the prison of Long Kesh, or HM Maze Prison, a hunger strike was launched in retaliation to the loss of special category status. This status would have labeled the prisoners kept there as essentially prisoners of war, and with that came a few exceptions to being treated as a "normal prisoner." Of these allowances sat the right to a visit, parcel, and letter once a week, the right to free association with others, no prison work details, and notably, the right to not have to wear the prison uniform.

These are men who were imprisoned for crimes committed during the "Troubles" in Ireland, when the provisional IRA were fighting for a unified Ireland. In the famous words of Bobby Sands, who was the first to die during the hunger strikes,

There can never be peace in Ireland until the foreign oppressive British presence is removed, leaving all the Irish people as a unit to control their own affairs and determine their own destinies as a sovereign people, free in mind and body, separate and distinct physically, culturally and economically.

These men, were fighting a war of independence, whether officially sanctioned or not. Agree with their tactics or not. After 10 men had died, two suffering serious injury, the strike was ended on October 3rd. Thatcher's pyric victory was seen as a deathnail in the IRA, and some leaders of the IRA would agree. But this was not so; as the ten men had become martyrs.

Thatcher would claim the men died to their own hand, and said "Mr Sands was a convicted criminal. He chose to take his own life. It was a choice that his organization did not allow to many of its victims." Which is a frightfully disruptive stance; but one the British govt has been known to keep. Rise up against the crown, and you will be squashed.

why bring this up now?

We are in a certain way these days. We have lost the ability to think freely, to be our own men (and women). We routinely bend the knee, we take it on the chin, we "keep calm and carry on" proudly. We take the scraps fed to us. We have no spine when compared to those who came before us, even in recent memory. Whether it is bending the knee to the powers that be in the form of gun control; while we see our police "protectors" standing by and watching our children be slaughtered defenseless, or standing by and watching our liberties be cast aside and we stand to say "Thank you."

Just something for you lot to think about. Educate yourselves. Look to the heroes of our past. This is NOT a call to violence. This is a call to education and self betterment.

a reply to: Iconic

They were still terrorists and indeed convicted criminals Iconic.

The IRA killed a lot of innocent people.

Be thankful the troubles are over as nobody in their right mind wishes to see that fire rekindled.

a reply to: Iconic

Murdering terrorist scum.

Ireland has moved on from this #e - both North and South - you're thread achieves nothing whatsoever.

As an aside; How old are you and where are you from?

a reply to: Freeborn

Oh and the English weren’t murdering scum?

I don’t expect you to know the history and the real cause and machinations behind the potatoe famine, or even about those wrongly jailed and set up known as the Birmingham six. I don’t expect you to question that you’ve only ever heard one side of the story.

But I would have thought you might realise the situation was far more nuanced than they were just terrorist scum. I think the point of the thread was about us collectively allowing our rights and liberties to be shat on. We don’t stand up for anything except by virtue signaling, or ranting on social media if it doesn’t censor us. We don’t even admit to ourselves that there is a conspiracy, that first it was the illuminati, then it was the bilderbergers and now it’s the WEF. Meanwhile we’ve never even heard of never mind researched the pilgrim society. No as long as we are safe in our homes and they don’t come knocking at our door we won’t do anything, as we can choose to pretend it won’t affect us and ours because we’ve done as we were told, and believed what they told us.

So we can say we don’t like this political system, that it needs to change, and all these politicians backstabbing their way to leadership you wouldn’t trust as far as you can throw them. But then debate who you dislike the least and go and vote for them?
SMH

a reply to: surfer_soul

Oh and the English weren’t murdering scum?

Where did I say they weren't?

I don’t expect you to know the history......

I know a damn sigh more about the history and have far more first hand experience of The Troubles and how they affected people than YOU ever will.
Not the one sided propaganda and bigoted and sectarian romanticised bollocks peddled by all sides.

I could relate first hand experiences and far, far more that have been passed to me from people from both sides of the barbed wire.

No amount of spin can begin to justify the misery and terror those #ing murdering scumbags of the IRA/INLA/UDA/UVF carried out.

.....I don’t expect you to question that you’ve only ever heard one side of the story.

A massive assumption and one that is as incorrect as possibly could be!

But I would have thought you might realise the situation was far more nuanced than they were just terrorist scum.

You're right, they weren't just terrorists; they were racketeering shysters as well who controlled their respective communities in a brutal manner. They used their 'positions' within their communities to generate huge profits for themselves through extortion, drug and gun running and tolerated no dissention at all.'
They glorified their 'cause' to justify their control and used fear and intimidation as a weapon on their own people.

Nothing can justify the killing of innocent people, including women and children etc.

I think the point of the thread was about us collectively allowing our rights and liberties to be shat on. We don’t stand up for anything except by virtue signaling, or ranting on social media if it doesn’t censor us.

You don't have a #ing clue what Rights I have stood up for, you have no idea what actions I have taken.
You attempt to moralise and pontificate yet just come across as arrogant, ignorant and pompous as well as very ill informed.

You know # all about me, what makes me tick and what I am about.
Do not make the mistake of taking a few random postings on a relatively obscure anonymous website that you do....I assure you, you're assumptions are way, way off the mark.

Mmmmm, looking at history after years waters down these nuances. Holding these people up as heroes is only their relatives doing. No one that I have seen or read has ever told some of the true reasons behind the IRA. When the "troubles" were on I worked North and South and all the ordinary Irish people I ever met thought the IRA were nut jobs. But I digress, I will tell you something and then you can try and refute them.

The IRA upper echelons were just organised criminals BSing the gullible populace to believe the unified Ireland BS. Of coarse the normal man in the street who supported them did their dirty work because they believed them. a few things.
1. What happened to all of the money from the bank jobs that were perpetrated by the "army".
2. What happened to all the money from the protection rackets they had going in the building industry, farming industry etc. etc. That was endemic in the North and South.
3. What happened to the hundreds of thousands that the the Pseudo-Irish in the USA donated for the "cause".

And now the biggie. Why did the IRA capitulate? I'll tell you why. The EU. The BSers in the movement saw with the coming of joining the EU they lost the only biggest con, a united Ireland. Because in the EU they would be united anyway.

IF they wanted to be treated as a prisoner-of-war then they should have wore uniforms to identify themselves as soldiers, but they didn't did they. They dressed as the civilian population so they could perpetrate their atrocities and blend into the population. Just that labels them as terrorists.
I wont tell you of the kneecappings of the minor criminals who tried to muscle in on their enterprises. Ooopps, I just did.

a reply to: surfer_soul

It's folk like you that hark back to events in past history that keep conflicts going.

There is peace now in NI thanks to forward thinking people.

The IRA were fighting their "war" mostly against unarmed innocent civilians, including women and children.

I remember those times all too well. Do you?

a reply to: Freeborn

I know a damn sigh more about the history and have far more first hand experience of The Troubles and how they affected people than YOU ever will.

Really? And how would you know that? Do have family that were caught up in that mess? You talk about me making assumptions, why were you asking the OP how old they were and where they’re from?

You're right, they weren't just terrorists; they were racketeering shysters as well who controlled their respective communities in a brutal manner. They used their 'positions' within their communities to generate huge profits for themselves through extortion, drug and gun running and tolerated no dissention at all.' They glorified their 'cause' to justify their control and used fear and intimidation as a weapon on their own people.

Good to see a heartfelt post from you, if only you would see that our government did more or less the same thing with using fear and intimidation over covid, forcing people out of there’s jobs (care homes) if they didn’t take the useless jabs as just one example of their underhand tactics, going along in lockstep with the WEF. But in other threads you dismiss the WEF and there ilk as nothing to look at. Why do you always ignore these things, yet when it comes to which puppet will lead the conservatives your full of opinions?

Instead you’re getting angry at me as if I’m personally attacking you, when in fact I’m suggesting you look deeper into who the real movers and shakers are that are behind so much of everything that is wrong in the world.

Also where did I claim to know anything about you? I say the above from your previous postings so that automatically makes me pompous and arrogant somehow? Your anger is misdirected just like it’s meant to be.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

It's folk like you that hark back to events in past history that keep conflicts going.

On the contrary, if you know your history it helps to prevent it from repeating itself.
If you want to know who the real villains are in any given conflict look to those who finance and profit from it.

a reply to: surfer_soul

In the case of the IRA, they were funded by Americans and Libya.

What has the Potato Famine got to do with anything?

Did that justify nail bombing civilians, for instance?

a reply to: surfer_soul

Really? And how would you know that?

Because if you had any sort of experience or knowledge of what actually transpired during The Troubles you wouldn't have posted such an ill thought out post.

The Troubles still evoke incredibly strong passions in people who experienced them and/or were around then and were affected by them.

Of course there is a lot of history that contributed to The Troubles and some genuine grievances....but NOTHING can justify the actions of The Provo's, the fear they spread, the killings they committed and the misery they inflicted.
Their Unionist counterparts were no better.

Do have family that were caught up in that mess?

Yes.
And friends.
On all sides.

You talk about me making assumptions, why were you asking the OP how old they were and where they’re from?

Because I wanted to.
What has that got to do with you?

Not that I have to but.....
Because I wanted to try and understand from what viewpoint and perspective they were coming from so that I could better understand their personal knowledge and understanding etc.
Is that ok?

Good to see a heartfelt post from you, if only you would see that our government did more or less the same thing with using fear and intimidation over covid,....

Covid has nothing to do with The Troubles.
I'll discuss Covid related issues as and when I choose and feel appropriate.
I was addressing this persons apparent glorification of murdering terrorist scumbags.

But in other threads you dismiss the WEF and there ilk as nothing to look at. Why do you always ignore these things, yet when it comes to which puppet will lead the conservatives your full of opinions?

I have opinions on most things.....some I choose to share, some I don't.
Personal choice.

I just don't think there is some nefarious, long standing plan for a Great Reset.
I've read lots of theories etc over a very long period of time.
My conclusion.
I think vested interests try to manipulate situations for their own benefit and to maintain the status quo....but not to the extent that many believe.

As to The Tories; they have a direct and immediate impact on me, my life and that of my loved one's.
I care passionately about this country and the rage that burned in me as a teenager is still as strong today.....just tinged with a bit more cynicism and realism.

Also where did I claim to know anything about you?

Your post was full of implied inferences based on false assumptions.

I will always react to people trying to glorify the actions of murdering terrorists as part of some sort of global war against the evil overlords of The Illuminati/NWO/Bilderbergers/WEF etc.....because those people mentioned in the OP were nothing of the sort and deserve nothing but contempt.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2


Where are you getting the idea that I’m justifying the actions of the IRA from?
I don’t condone war, terrorism or the financing of such.

You asked how if I remember those times, I do, but I’m not old enough to remember the signs saying “No dogs, no blacks and no Irish. My grandparents were though.

a reply to: surfer_soul

There you go, harking back to long ago.

I simply asked if all that justified the IRA's atrocities.

You brought up historical reasons.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Where are you getting the idea that I’m justifying the actions of the IRA from?

So why play whataboutism with terrorist scum on the other end of the line?

The IRA, just like their UDA counterparts, were nothing more than diabolical maniacs hell-bent on blowing the crap out of one another with the likes of coffee jar bombs for kicks and hoots.

And they did not give a crap about any innocents that got in the way nether.

If in doubt go look at what they perpetrated aka the car pub and hotel bombings that the cowardly dirty bastards were responsible for committing over the years.

en.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

It's folk like you that hark back to events in past history that keep conflicts going.

This is what you said, basically blaming people like me for keeping conflicts going because I know history. Yeah right!

Everything else is you say is strawman and deflection, insulating I think terrorism is justified when I have said no such thing.

Do you think history has no bearing on the present, or things just suddenly happen for no reason? C’mon..

a reply to: surfer_soul

In this day of age, terrorism should never really be justifiable.

Certainly not in Ireland that's for sure.

As to history having no bearing on the present, well how far back do you wish to go?

We are all bastards if you go far enough into our ancestral past.

The trick is to learn from history and not repeat past generation's mistakes or transgressions i suppose.

Not that i hold out much hope on that score.

a reply to: Freeborn

I just don't think there is some nefarious, long standing plan for a Great Reset.

Even though the founder of the WEF has wrote a book called The Great Reset?

I think vested interests try to manipulate situations for their own benefit and to maintain the status quo....but not to the extent that many believe.

That’s partly true but if you don’t think that there are these organisations actively working to shape the future in their own interests at everyone else’s expense your not seeing the whole picture.

As for the Torries they dance to the fiddle of the think tanks and NGO,s who dictate policy behind the scenes, Labour is no different. Example both parties claim to support the NHS because they know that’s what the public wants, but both parties when in power take steps to dismantle and privatise it as far as possible for the benefit of their crony’s. They are just two sides of the same arse. It’s the same with American politics. Meanwhile they have us the plebs divided against each other.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Your spot on with that last paragraph.

Politics in the UK is broken by design or so it seems.

And the class divide only grows wider with the passing of every day.

a reply to: andy06shake

Not just the U.K. this is a global issue and it’s most definitely by design.

originally posted by: Iconic
Sands
Hughes
McCreesh
O'Hara
McDonnell
Hurson
Lynch
Doherty
McElwee
Devine

All young men, boys in fact, caught up in a bloody civil war. They certainly died brave men though.

Those who call them terrorists are the same ones who support the military machine that not only colluded with terrorists but set up and funded terrorism and ran terrorist operations including bombings and shootings of hundreds of innocent civilians in Northern Ireland and many countries around the globe.

It's what the Brits do. They divide or pick a side then conquer.