A destroyed U.S. will be the mark of the 2nd two-horned beast

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: ChesterJohn
No, I came to say to people that Daniel's prophecies should not be misinterpreted.
Scripture is inspired by God, but false understandings of scripture based on failing to read the text are not inspired by God.

The book of Revelation is The Book of Daniel Opened.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
That doesn't help his case. Nothing in the book of Revelation contains the misleading interpretation which I have been criticising.

doesn't help our either.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: ChesterJohn
That doesn't help his case. Nothing in the book of Revelation contains the misleading interpretation which I have been criticising.

Oh, You asked for it.

When I tried to solve the mystery of the first seal of Revelation there back in 2002 I was driving a truck across eastern Nebraska in the middle of the night. At that point in time I was already aware that Daniel appeared to be running. The 9-11 attacks and then Bush attacking Afghanistan. Just as the prophesies of Daniel foretold. So I was deep in thought and wondered if 9-11 was the opening of the first seal of Revelation. So after thinking about it I wondered if it was a Daniel class type of puzzle. Then after a bit more thought I tried applying the let the Bible solve the Bible principle on it. That being if a verse is describing something there could be other verses or prophesies with more information on it.

Then I realized something. Where's the Horseman's arrows? Saying he had a bow is not normal. It's a bow and arrows. Then I realized that was the puzzle. Find the arrows. Then I realized where they were from an old memory from a book of bible stories I read as a young child. So I went looking for that story. And found it in 2nd kings 13.

Quote.

14Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof.
15And Elisha said unto him, Take bow and arrows. And he took unto him bow and arrows.
16And he said to the king of Israel, Put thine hand upon the bow. And he put his hand upon it: and Elisha put his hands upon the king's hands.
17And he said, Open the window eastward. And he opened it. Then Elisha said, Shoot. And he shot. And he said, The arrow of the LORD'S deliverance, and the arrow of deliverance from Syria: for thou shalt smite the Syrians in Aphek, till thou have consumed them.
18And he said, Take the arrows. And he took them. And he said unto the king of Israel, Smite upon the ground. And he smote thrice, and stayed.
19And the man of God was wroth with him, and said, Thou shouldest have smitten five or six times; then hadst thou smitten Syria till thou hadst consumed it: whereas now thou shalt smite Syria but thrice.
20And Elisha died, and they buried him. And the bands of the Moabites invaded the land at the coming in of the year.
21And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
22But Hazael king of Syria oppressed Israel all the days of Jehoahaz.
23And the LORD was gracious unto them, and had compassion on them, and had respect unto them, because of his covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and would not destroy them, neither cast he them from his presence as yet.
24So Hazael king of Syria died; and Benhadad his son reigned in his stead.
25And Jehoash the son of Jehoahaz took again out of the hand of Benhadad the son of Hazael the cities, which he had taken out of the hand of Jehoahaz his father by war. Three times did Joash beat him, and recovered the cities of Israel.

And now we know how many arrows the first horseman carries. 3 arrows or victories in his end times war. And a possible 4th for the arrow of the Lord's deliverance. And now I know who he is. He's the king of the south of Daniel 11.

If you look at Daniel 11 and count all the victories it turns out he has 4 victories in his war against the king of the north. BUT the 3rd victory against the invasion of the south is a Pyrrhic victory. He wins the battle but suffers large losses in men and material. And BTW 9-11 was his first victory. In verse 11-2.

And that's how you solve the first horseman.

originally posted by: ntech
"That doesn't help his case. Nothing in the book of Revelation contains the misleading interpretation which I have been criticising."
Oh, You asked for it.

You respond to my comment by finding a different match between Daniel and Revelation. But I never denied the interconnections betwen the two. My thread series (soon to be a a book) makes much of them.
The term "misleading interpretation" referred very specifically to the claim that Daniel saw something which "looked Greek". That is not backed up by the text in Daniel, and you're never able to defend it on that basis. And I repeat that the "looked Greek" misleading interpretation is NOT contained in the book of Revelation. You cannot get round that by talking about everything else in the book of Revelation.

Where's the Horseman's arrows? Saying he had a bow is not normal. It's a bow and arrows.

The expression "bow and arrows" is normal in modern English. If it was obligatory in the Hebrew of the Old Testament, or the Greek of the New Testament, you would have a point.
I explain the bow in my own thread Four Horsemen- How?
Being shot at with arrows is a symbol in ancient culture for "plague". When the bowman conquers, that is an epidemic- or even a pandemic. In Revelation ch6, the pandemic is accompanied by strife, famine, and death (picking up the bodies produced by the first three). So I'm inclined to agree that Revelation ch6 may be running, though I would wait for more evidence before I said so with certainty.

The sealed book of Daniel is the open book of Revelation.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I will buy your book and when I read it and you do not have all the authors you have plagiarized listed in the back of it. I will report you as a fraud to your published and if you self publish, I will make a youtube video telling the world you PLAGIARIZED other works and claim it as your own w/out giving them the credit do them.


Amn what you forget about Rev 6 is no one will be picking up these bodies until the first 7 months of the Millennial Kingdom (do you really need the OT reference) and still burying their bones for SEVEN YEARS after the start of the Millennial Kingdom.

a reply to: ChesterJohn
You will find at the back a list of Old Testament references. Those are my sources.
There are also identified quotations from St Augustine and Edward Gibbon.

Incidentally, you forget that there is another battle in Revelation. The Ezekiel reference is matched in ch19.

If I remember it was the Hebrews that told Alexander that he was prophesied to get them out of the frying pan, but also into the fire.

Oddly enough, why isn't any of the N.T, O.T books like Ezekiel, Elijah, or Daniel in the Torah?

a reply to: Proto88
Torah means "law". The Hebrew name for the Pentateuch. They count Ezekiel, Daniel, and Elijah as Prophets.

a reply to: DISRAELI

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

I didn't say they didn't match Ezekiel and they are Daniel too and Isaiah and a bunch of other references int eh OT as well, so what.

originally posted by: DISRAELI

originally posted by: ntech
"That doesn't help his case. Nothing in the book of Revelation contains the misleading interpretation which I have been criticising."
Oh, You asked for it.

The term "misleading interpretation" referred very specifically to the claim that Daniel saw something which "looked Greek". That is not backed up by the text in Daniel, and you're never able to defend it on that basis. And I repeat that the "looked Greek" misleading interpretation is NOT contained in the book of Revelation. You cannot get round that by talking about everything else in the book of Revelation.

Actually that is backed up by the text in Daniel.

Daniel 8
1In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a visionappeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
2And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

Daniel is describing the visions he had. He saw a goat with a great horn on it's head get into a fight with a ram. It's later in the chapter where the Angel is decoding the vision where it was called Greece. However said Angel also specified that the events of the vision happen at the time of the end. Which I proved is in the 21st century. And I also refer you back to Daniel 12 where it's stated that the prophesies of the book are sealed by Daniel and by GOD himself till the time of the end. Therefore the statements made in the prophecy have to be taken with a grain of salt. They are supposed to be intentionally misleading to anyone before the time of the end. A time capsule with a "do not open till the 21st century sticker on it.

Now if you look at chap. 10 and 12 you see the same messages about the prophecy in Daniel 11.

Daniel 10
5Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
6His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
7And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.
8Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I retained no strength.

Daniel 12
4But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
8And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

So the simple answer to your dilemma is that the word "Greece" used through the Daniel prophesies is not a definition. It's a description instead. A simile.

Oh, and while I'm on Daniel. You should look at Matthew 24 and the Daniel references there.

Daniel 24
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Now where is that located in Daniel?
Daniel 11
31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

And what I believe is another one.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

I believe this is his 2nd Daniel reverence and I think he is referring specifically to verse 8-8 and 11-4. Once the ram is dead what do you have? A carcass.

a reply to: ntech
All the text you are quoting proves my point.
NEVER, at NO point in that text, does Daniel see anything except a pair of animals.
The information that one of them is "Greece" comes from an angel.

That is what makes your usual line that "Daniel sees buildings that look Greek" so absurd and falsified.

Similaly, the other texts you are quoting say absolutely NOTHING about "Daniel seeing something that looks Greek", which is the specific point at issue, so they have no relevance to the question.

This is exactly what I said in the first place. Why is it so hard for you to read text?

a reply to: DISRAELI

I would say the same to you. I believe I have quoted enough to prove that the prophecies of Daniel are "sealed" and as such you need to look past the veneer and look at the prophecy in 21st century terms. Clearly the angel of Daniel 8 is merely relating the interpretation of the vision as given to him by God. And as "God" pointed out he is being intentionally deceptive there. So not looking at the prophecy in 21st century terms and images is intentionally deceiving yourself.

a reply to: ntech

the closed prophecy of the book of Daniel is the open prophecy of the Book of Revelation.

If you put them side by side you will see.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

As I see it. In the first century AD it appears that their were actually 2 timelines that the first century Jews could have taken.

The first was where John the Baptist lived and the curse of Malachi was never triggered. When Jesus Christ cleared the temple of the moneychangers it appears John the Baptist should have been present as the messenger of the covenant along with the other messenger. Per Zechariah and Malachi.

Malachi 3
1Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

Malachi 4

5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Zechariah 3
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
2And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.
6And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
7Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.
8Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH.
9For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.

Zechariah 4
11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

Zechariah 6

10Take of them of the captivity, even of Heldai, of Tobijah, and of Jedaiah, which are come from Babylon, and come thou the same day, and go into the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah;
11Then take silver and gold, and make crowns, and set them upon the head of Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest;
12And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
13Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
14And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD.
15And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and ye shall know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.

At the time of Jesus Christ it should have been him, his two branches or messengers, and Elijah the prophet who may have been a branch or messenger but never got the chance to fulfill the role. So what I would say is that we're in a busted Apocalypse. Should have been concluded in the first century AD but it got a 2000 year extension because of the death of John the Baptist/Elijah the prophet.

As for Revelation it's also a retelling of a vision had by John. See verse 1-10.

But yes your conclusion is correct. The two prophesies do run concurrently. Though many of the various events of Revelation do not have a corresponding event in Daniel. But some do. Daniel 11-4 I believe is a retelling of the opening of the 6th seal. The first seal was the 9-11 attack with the US as the predecessor to the kingdom of the north. The second seal occurred on 10-7-2001 when Bush attacked Afghanistan. When the powerful king of Greece attacked the ram and broke it's first horn. The 3rd happened on 11-2-01 and the 4th happened on 11-28-01. The fifth happened in Feb. of 2002. And we've been in the pause of the 5th seal ever since.

a reply to: ntech

The Historical Prophecy was only part, there is still part of that Historical Narrative that has yet to be fulfilled and will in the historical future.

Daniel and John are seeing things in two vastly different cultural settings a thousand years apart. So they look different but as you study then it becomes apparent that they are the Same Events Historical and Future, the later is the actual fulfillment.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

My problem is that I received an unfair advantage back when in October of 2001.

I got to see the tutorial. Maybe I could tell you about it. Maybe I'll tell you about it. And my souvenier from the experience. But don't have the time now.

But according to Jewish mythology supposedly if you meditate on Torah scripture long enough and hard enough you'll see visions. I saw 3 of them.

a reply to: ntech

I have learned from experience, if you "meditate on" ANYTHING "long enough and hard enough you'll see visions".

I would love to hear your story and about your souvenir.