UK Highest Infection rate because they vaccinated early!

Covid19 has been going for 22 months!
how can Any one Not have been exposed?
there is no point to a vax. we All have it.

but it was never about protecting us.
its THEM telling us to give up all freedom so they can protect us.
but who will protecting us from THEM?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: AaarghZombies

How is it so slow for a pandemic level, airborne virus to take years to spread around a small island nation that was described as being terrible and pre-vaccination riddled with the infectous virus spreading amongst millions in packed unventilated environments?

the UK had a sky high infection rate BEFORE the vax was even being trialed. The uk has a terrible problem with communicable diseases because it has a densely packed population and is dependent on public transport. Every day 10s of thousands of people travelling in and out of London on jam packed trains for hours with little or ventilation, millions on the underground rail networks too.

The UK also has a problem with anti vaxxers, and with people from certain groups who refused to mask up or socially distance.

Surely with a simple R0 factor of 1 person infects 2 other, by now everyone there should have had it by now.

But no only around 10-12% have been a case - despite a million-ish tests a day
humm so something is not right with your doom prediction, lets look at all deaths

In week 40 2021, no statistically significant excess all-cause mortality by week of death
was observed overall in England through the EuroMOMO algorithm. In the devolved
administrations, no statistically significant excess all-cause mortality for all ages was
observed for Wales and Northern Ireland in week 39. Excess mortality was observed in
Scotland for week 37

In actual fact the graph shows, fewer people are dying than expected currently
All-Caus e Mortality Surveillance
14 October 2021 – Week 41 report (up to week 40 data)

But its ok the Flu is expected to kill 60,000 this year (almost 10x more than normal) and adding the Neurotoxic chemical to the water supply will save their teeth.

60,000 may die of flu due to low immunity caused by lockdown as 35m offered jab
Professor Jonathan Van-Tam urges Brits 'defend yourselves' as flu is back with a war on the seasonal bug to see 35million brits offered a free jab - modelling shows there could be 60,000 winter deaths due to low immunity after lockdowns

If the 10 to 12% figure for infections is correct and we have had c140k deaths the waiting for 'natural herd immunity' would have resulted in hundreds of thousands dead.

Excess mortality is negligible despite rising case numbers, this would seem good evidence of the value of the vaccine.

There hasn't been a lockdown in the UK for months and at no point was going outside prohibited. Why would people immune systems be affected?

Based on a 12 percent infection rate in 18 months, a 1.6 percent death rate, and an 80 percent infection rate needed for herd immunity ... it would take the UK at least 3 years and 800,000 deaths to reach herd immunity without a vaccine, and those are low ball numbers. My sources are in my signature.

originally posted by: buddha
Covid19 has been going for 22 months!
how can Any one Not have been exposed?
there is no point to a vax. we All have it.

but it was never about protecting us.
its THEM telling us to give up all freedom so they can protect us.
but who will protecting from THEM?

Despite what the media say, Covid isn't actually that transmittable. The average symptomatic sufferer will only infect 3-4 other people, mostly their own families whom they spend long periods of time with.

In the UK, which is where they are talking about, only about 12 percent of the population has been infected so far.

Without a vaccine for covid to spread to the 80% of the UK population that would be needed for herd immunity (As a bare minimum). Based on a population of 68 million, a death rate of 1.6 percent, and a transmission rate of 3-4 you'd be looking at herd immunity sometime around 2024, with 700,00 - 800,000 deaths (1.6 percent of all infected, 80 percent infection rate).

My sources are in my signature.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: AaarghZombies

How is it so slow for a pandemic level, airborne virus to take years to spread around a small island nation that was described as being terrible and pre-vaccination riddled with the infectous virus spreading amongst millions in packed unventilated environments?

the UK had a sky high infection rate BEFORE the vax was even being trialed. The uk has a terrible problem with communicable diseases because it has a densely packed population and is dependent on public transport. Every day 10s of thousands of people travelling in and out of London on jam packed trains for hours with little or ventilation, millions on the underground rail networks too.

The UK also has a problem with anti vaxxers, and with people from certain groups who refused to mask up or socially distance.

Surely with a simple R0 factor of 1 person infects 2 other, by now everyone there should have had it by now.

But no only around 10-12% have been a case - despite a million-ish tests a day
humm so something is not right with your doom prediction, lets look at all deaths

In week 40 2021, no statistically significant excess all-cause mortality by week of death
was observed overall in England through the EuroMOMO algorithm. In the devolved
administrations, no statistically significant excess all-cause mortality for all ages was
observed for Wales and Northern Ireland in week 39. Excess mortality was observed in
Scotland for week 37

In actual fact the graph shows, fewer people are dying than expected currently
All-Caus e Mortality Surveillance
14 October 2021 – Week 41 report (up to week 40 data)

But its ok the Flu is expected to kill 60,000 this year (almost 10x more than normal) and adding the Neurotoxic chemical to the water supply will save their teeth.

60,000 may die of flu due to low immunity caused by lockdown as 35m offered jab
Professor Jonathan Van-Tam urges Brits 'defend yourselves' as flu is back with a war on the seasonal bug to see 35million brits offered a free jab - modelling shows there could be 60,000 winter deaths due to low immunity after lockdowns

If the 10 to 12% figure for infections is correct and we have had c140k deaths the waiting for 'natural herd immunity' would have resulted in hundreds of thousands dead.

Excess mortality is negligible despite rising case numbers, this would seem good evidence of the value of the vaccine.

There hasn't been a lockdown in the UK for months and at no point was going outside prohibited. Why would people immune systems be affected?

Based on a 12 percent infection rate in 18 months, a 1.6 percent death rate, and an 80 percent infection rate needed for herd immunity ... it would take the UK at least 3 years and 800,000 deaths to reach herd immunity without a vaccine, and those are low ball numbers. My sources are in my signature.

1.6% is probably on the high side. IFR is likely about half that (as you cover in your post).

However that is based on the restrictions being kept in place, probably impossible over that time frame and with higher cases comes comes potentially strain on hospitals increasing the deaths.

It would be also impossible to keep sheilding the most vulnerable over that time period meaning more high risk people become exposed potentially increasing deaths as well.

originally posted by: Hypntick
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

Not just your culture, they know nothing about anything that doesn't quite fit their narrative. I think Puzzled2 said it best, if the nation has such a problem that the virus is spreading rapidly why would it take years to reach total saturation? Nothing the person says makes a lick of sense in any thread.

On average each infected person only infects 3-4 other people. Infections would spread rapidly in the big cities, and slowly in the countryside. About 12 percent of the UK population ahs been confirmed to have been infected in 18 months. These are the most vulnerable, the most exposed, plus the most careless who took no precautions.

Let's say that this is a gross under estimate, and that 50 percent of cases were asymptomatic.

So, in 18 months 24% of the UK population has had covid.

80% of people would need to have had covid in order to reach herd immunity (as a bare minimum). The people are the greatest risk have already had it and are now immune, so covid will likely spread more slowly through the remaining 76 percent of the population. 56 percent of whom would need to be infected for heard immunity.

Each infected person typically infects 3-4 other people, so, based on 24 percent (our doubling of the official number) already infected in 18 months and 80 percent needing to reach heard immunity you're talking about maybe 3 years.

80 percent of the UK population is 54,400,000, 1.6% of them will die. That's 870,400 people.

Let's be generous and say that more people will survive as the most vulnerable are already dead so the people catching covid are young and healthy.

Even if we cut that number in half, we're talking over 400,000 dead.

Without a vax, it will take 3 years for the UK to reach herd immunity and 400,000 people will die during that time. And that's my ultra low ball estimate.

My sources are in my signature.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: AaarghZombies

How is it so slow for a pandemic level, airborne virus to take years to spread around a small island nation that was described as being terrible and pre-vaccination riddled with the infectous virus spreading amongst millions in packed unventilated environments?

the UK had a sky high infection rate BEFORE the vax was even being trialed. The uk has a terrible problem with communicable diseases because it has a densely packed population and is dependent on public transport. Every day 10s of thousands of people travelling in and out of London on jam packed trains for hours with little or ventilation, millions on the underground rail networks too.

The UK also has a problem with anti vaxxers, and with people from certain groups who refused to mask up or socially distance.

Surely with a simple R0 factor of 1 person infects 2 other, by now everyone there should have had it by now.

But no only around 10-12% have been a case - despite a million-ish tests a day
humm so something is not right with your doom prediction, lets look at all deaths

In week 40 2021, no statistically significant excess all-cause mortality by week of death
was observed overall in England through the EuroMOMO algorithm. In the devolved
administrations, no statistically significant excess all-cause mortality for all ages was
observed for Wales and Northern Ireland in week 39. Excess mortality was observed in
Scotland for week 37

In actual fact the graph shows, fewer people are dying than expected currently
All-Caus e Mortality Surveillance
14 October 2021 – Week 41 report (up to week 40 data)

But its ok the Flu is expected to kill 60,000 this year (almost 10x more than normal) and adding the Neurotoxic chemical to the water supply will save their teeth.

60,000 may die of flu due to low immunity caused by lockdown as 35m offered jab
Professor Jonathan Van-Tam urges Brits 'defend yourselves' as flu is back with a war on the seasonal bug to see 35million brits offered a free jab - modelling shows there could be 60,000 winter deaths due to low immunity after lockdowns

If the 10 to 12% figure for infections is correct and we have had c140k deaths the waiting for 'natural herd immunity' would have resulted in hundreds of thousands dead.

Excess mortality is negligible despite rising case numbers, this would seem good evidence of the value of the vaccine.

There hasn't been a lockdown in the UK for months and at no point was going outside prohibited. Why would people immune systems be affected?

Based on a 12 percent infection rate in 18 months, a 1.6 percent death rate, and an 80 percent infection rate needed for herd immunity ... it would take the UK at least 3 years and 800,000 deaths to reach herd immunity without a vaccine, and those are low ball numbers. My sources are in my signature.

1.6% is probably on the high side. IFR is likely about half that (as you cover in your post).

However that is based on the restrictions being kept in place, probably impossible over that time frame and with higher cases comes comes potentially strain on hospitaks increasing the deaths.

It would be also impossible to keep sheilding the most vulnerable over that time period meaning more high risk people become exposed potentially increasing deaths as well.

I was low balling the figures, but OK. If we say that double the number of people have been infected from the official figures but never knew because 50 percent of them were asymptomatic. That's 24% of the population infected in 18 months, which would make the mortality rate 0.8% rather than 1.6%.

A typical unvaxxed person with covid will infect 3-4 other people.

Based on those numbers in order to reach heard immunity (80 percent of the population, as a bare minimum, 24 percent in 18 months) 400,000 people would die and it would take until at least 2024.

This is of course without the vaccine.

My sources are in my signature.

originally posted by: buddha

who will protecting from THEM?

This thing is global, "Them" covers communists, capitalists, liberals, conservatives, atheists, the religious, every type of government imaginable form proportional democracy to single party dictatorship right up to full on Monarchy.

I find it extremely hard to believe that so many different governments from so many different countries, with so many different approaches to literally everything else would all be in on some huge conspiracy when they can't even agree on simple things.

My government isn't your government. They want different things and even when they want the same thing they go about it differently from each other. The idea that they might be colluding is frankly ridiculous, they can't even agree on a standard for dress sizes.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: AaarghZombies

How is it so slow for a pandemic level, airborne virus to take years to spread around a small island nation that was described as being terrible and pre-vaccination riddled with the infectous virus spreading amongst millions in packed unventilated environments?

the UK had a sky high infection rate BEFORE the vax was even being trialed. The uk has a terrible problem with communicable diseases because it has a densely packed population and is dependent on public transport. Every day 10s of thousands of people travelling in and out of London on jam packed trains for hours with little or ventilation, millions on the underground rail networks too.

The UK also has a problem with anti vaxxers, and with people from certain groups who refused to mask up or socially distance.

Surely with a simple R0 factor of 1 person infects 2 other, by now everyone there should have had it by now.

But no only around 10-12% have been a case - despite a million-ish tests a day
humm so something is not right with your doom prediction, lets look at all deaths

In week 40 2021, no statistically significant excess all-cause mortality by week of death
was observed overall in England through the EuroMOMO algorithm. In the devolved
administrations, no statistically significant excess all-cause mortality for all ages was
observed for Wales and Northern Ireland in week 39. Excess mortality was observed in
Scotland for week 37

In actual fact the graph shows, fewer people are dying than expected currently
All-Caus e Mortality Surveillance
14 October 2021 – Week 41 report (up to week 40 data)

But its ok the Flu is expected to kill 60,000 this year (almost 10x more than normal) and adding the Neurotoxic chemical to the water supply will save their teeth.

60,000 may die of flu due to low immunity caused by lockdown as 35m offered jab
Professor Jonathan Van-Tam urges Brits 'defend yourselves' as flu is back with a war on the seasonal bug to see 35million brits offered a free jab - modelling shows there could be 60,000 winter deaths due to low immunity after lockdowns

If the 10 to 12% figure for infections is correct and we have had c140k deaths the waiting for 'natural herd immunity' would have resulted in hundreds of thousands dead.

Excess mortality is negligible despite rising case numbers, this would seem good evidence of the value of the vaccine.

There hasn't been a lockdown in the UK for months and at no point was going outside prohibited. Why would people immune systems be affected?

Based on a 12 percent infection rate in 18 months, a 1.6 percent death rate, and an 80 percent infection rate needed for herd immunity ... it would take the UK at least 3 years and 800,000 deaths to reach herd immunity without a vaccine, and those are low ball numbers. My sources are in my signature.

1.6% is probably on the high side. IFR is likely about half that (as you cover in your post).

However that is based on the restrictions being kept in place, probably impossible over that time frame and with higher cases comes comes potentially strain on hospitaks increasing the deaths.

It would be also impossible to keep sheilding the most vulnerable over that time period meaning more high risk people become exposed potentially increasing deaths as well.

I was low balling the figures, but OK. If we say that double the number of people have been infected from the official figures but never knew because 50 percent of them were asymptomatic. That's 24% of the population infected in 18 months, which would make the mortality rate 0.8% rather than 1.6%.

A typical unvaxxed person with covid will infect 3-4 other people.

Based on those numbers in order to reach heard immunity (80 percent of the population, as a bare minimum, 24 percent in 18 months) 400,000 people would die and it would take until at least 2024.

This is of course without the vaccine.

My sources are in my signature.

Which would put deaths in a similar range to those predicted in the ICL report back in early 2020.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Specific claims require specific citations. I'm not sifting through your pile of BS.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

There will Never be

A Vaccine for Sars2 Cov19

Fact..

Riouz

According to the UK Govs own site the infection rate has plummeted.
Oct. 11th infections 49,377.
Oct 13th infections 46,867.
Oct 17th infections 38,059.
Oct 18th infections 13,354.
Where are they getting their figures from?

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: bilbous

there has to be a point when we all just say enough is enough, lets learn to live with it and let natural immunity take its course.

The problem with that is that by the time the UK reaches herd immunity a couple of hundred thousand people will have died from covid.

Building up a natural resistance will take years.

And a couple hundred thousand more will have died from isolation, suicide, overdoses, violence from pent up frustration/fear, lacking basic health care doing their part to flatten the curve, dodgy vaccines, bad nutrition if deprived of work due to being unvaxxed.

Yeah, seems worth it. Not. Besides, logic would seem to be that most people already have near herd immunity if tons of people are asymptomatic.

Someone I know killed himself last night. He had chronic health issues, debt issues with his business, his home burnt down, but by far the worst was the depression he felt due to these times, not believing the propaganda and the alienation from a divided society.

Part of it is to blame for crappy AZ which only generates enough antibodies for 3 months. But then again, high population density can also explain it. Densely packed malls, supermarkets, schools, cinemas means air is heavily contaminated with virus.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Wrong. 94% of British have antibodies as of a couple of months ago. There is no herd immunity against a cold virus such as covid. Body does not dedicated much resource against non serious diseases such as cold.

originally posted by: RebelAllianceAssemble
a reply to: AaarghZombies

Wrong. 94% of British have antibodies as of a couple of months ago. There is no herd immunity against a cold virus such as covid. Body does not dedicated much resource against non serious diseases such as cold.

The vast majority of which came through vaccination.

originally posted by: bilbous there has to be a point when we all just say enough is enough

there is and i think it is close at hand now.

originally posted by: bilbous
So the latest news coming out of the Uk is that the reason we have the highest amount of infections is because of the early success of the vaccine rollout. This means the vaccine is has now waned to a point were it is no longer effective.
Story here

This will now become the narrative for pushing the boosters, I can just feel the next lockdown in the UK is imminent and I for one and just sick and tired of it all, there has to be a point when we all just say enough is enough, lets learn to live with it and let natural immunity take its course.

Yesterday, I read in daily mail online a headline which read 'Natural Immunity just as good as the Vaccine'. I think big Phar ma know they got this one wrong.

a reply to: bilbous

From the story.

booster jab rollout said to be going "extremely slowly".

I assume the reason booster vax is going slowly is problary the people dont want another one.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: underpass61

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: bilbous

The uk has a terrible problem with communicable diseases because it has a densely packed population and is dependent on public transport. Every day 10s of thousands of people travelling in and out of London on jam packed trains for hours with little or ventilation, millions on the underground rail networks too.

You talk like there aren't places like India that are massively more densely packed than the UK. Are they experiencing this same uptrend? They're not? No they aren't.

And of course I will provide no citations per your constant example.

My sources are in my signature. "See these links before asking me for my sources "

India is experiencing the same problems, it's just not as well documented.

No one wants to sift through your inflated statistics.

Pound sand.

The worm is turning and people are realising that the vaccines offer very little unless you are willing to take them forever.