Breaking: First Charges Filed in Mueller Investigation

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, it isn't Gryph. If I saw true evidence I would say hang him. I don't. Haven't. The indictments today were for business dealings and had NOTHING to do with the campaign.

The Agents of Vlad...sounds like a cool band name.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes lying to the FBI is a crime. Lying on an official document (either directly or by omission) is a crime.

Now you want to maybe stop acting stupid by trying to derail the conversation? Your better than that.

It is known that Manafort was with Trump Jr. and Kushner when they met with agents of Putin.

Mr. Papadoupoulos has been convicted of lying about collusion with agents of Putin to the FBI.

Mr. Flynn was fired for lying about collusion to the Vice President.

Collusion is not really in question here.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Gryphon66

Yes lying to the FBI is a crime. Lying on an official document (either directly or by omission) is a crime.

Now you want to maybe stop acting stupid by trying to derail the conversation? Your better than that.

That's a general statement. Who lied and when did they do it?

I'm not derailing anything ... this is part of the conversation. Now if you can't answer, say so.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The list you intentionally ignored -

Failing to register as a foreign agent
FEC violations for disclosure of campaign finance sources and their roles
conspiracy to violate FEC laws
conspiracy to violate federal records laws
conspiracy to coverup the deaths of 4 Americans in Libya
destruction of government property (emails)
destruction of government property (cell phones / computers)
conspiracy to destroy government property
violations of the espionage act
money laundering
pay for play scheme
quid pro quo
bribery
lying to congress (perjury)
Uranium one sale
violation of federal law in unmasking US citizens
knowingly using false information in order to obtain fisa warrants (This alone should nullify any prosecutions since it is fruit of the poisonous tree)
Conspiracy to defraud democratic voters by rigging the democratic primary.
Filegate
Travelgate
Chinagate
Clinton university scam
whitewater
pardongate
Cash cows scandal
receiving funds from a front company of Iran's government
DNC accepting donations from foreign nationals.
Clinton receiving funds from foreign nationals.
Defrauding the Haitian government / people of several billion dollars
consistently failing to disclose foreign government donation to their foundation
Peter Paul campaign finance violations
giftgate
Releasing grandjury actions



off the top of my head. If you want more i can provide more.

Also this was your inital post -

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: AnkhMorpork

What crime should Clinton’s campaign or the DNC be charge with in this investigation?

You want to stop trying to move the goal posts by pretending you asked something different than what you posted? It is sad and pathetic and again you are better than that.

Now maybe you can provide us with the criminal statue for collusion and then show us how anyone colluded with russian agents.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Gryphon66

No, it isn't Gryph. If I saw true evidence I would say hang him. I don't. Haven't. The indictments today were for business dealings and had NOTHING to do with the campaign.

The Agents of Vlad...sounds like a cool band name.

LOL ... kinda like Party of Regions eh?

The indictments against Manafort and his colleague are merely bargaining chips in my opinion that turned up in the course of the investigation.

We know Manafort colluded on at least one occasion when he met with Trump Jr./Kutchner and the Russian agents.

A pattern of deceit has been established on the part of the Trump Campaign, Mata. Flynn, Matafort, Trump Jr. etc.

Why are they lying?

a reply to: Gryphon66


"Collusion" isn't a crime - lying to Federal agents is. Those other charges listed are also crimes - totally unrelated to "collusion." Collusion refers to an anti-trust law, has nothing to do with elections or "RUSHYAN HAKKING!"

This investigation has NEVER been about "collusion." The indictments prove that much. Law enforcement entities don't investigate non-crimes, therefore they ARE NOT INVESTIGATING "COLLUSION" which is not a crime in these United States. Furthermore, not one of you can produce any evidence that any such non-crimes even took place. This whole thing is laughable, and your willingness to "die on that hill" (like many leftists do, with gun control, anti-free speech, etc) is equally jocular.

Move on, gryphon. You've been debunked, as usual.

a reply to: Xcathdra

You're saying that the Clinton Campaign and DNC should have registered as foreign agents?

You could have stopped there; your list is nothing more than an absurd amalgamation of fringe theories.

Thanks.

a reply to: Gryphon66


You mad?

Three members (so far) of the Trump Campaign have been indicted for crimes. One has been convicted of a crime directly related to the Campaign itself and is directly related to collusion with Russian agents.

Anything else at this point is just more lies and absurdities.

a reply to: JBurns

Well, they are investigating these matters and that investigation has yielded three indictments and one conviction thus far, less than five months in.

You may be mistaken in your assessment.

And all the Republican counter spin action memo items are flimsy at best (and most likely nothingburgers). This has been a horrifically damning turn of events and I think is the cause of the tepid interaction of our more ardent Trump supporters here on this forum today.

a reply to: Gryphon66

You asked a question and I answered it. Dont get mad at me because the question you asked blew up in your face.

when a US citizen lobbies the US government inn behalf of a foreign government they are require by law to register as a foreign agent. Thats not a tough concept to understand and is laid out in the FARA statutes.

* - DOJ - FARA - Foreign Agents Registration Act
* - 22 U.S. Code Subchapter II - REGISTRATION OF FOREIGN PROPAGANDISTS

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Three members (so far) of the Trump Campaign have been indicted for crimes. One has been convicted of a crime directly related to the Campaign itself and is directly related to collusion with Russian agents.

Anything else at this point is just more lies and absurdities.

Really?

Whose crime is linked directly to the campaign?

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Three members (so far) of the Trump Campaign have been indicted for crimes. One has been convicted of a crime directly related to the Campaign itself and is directly related to collusion with Russian agents.

Anything else at this point is just more lies and absurdities.

I agree with you on the third one.

This george guy did seek dirt on Hillary from russians, no doubt about it.

Now supossedly people high on Trumps team, even manafort # this down. And we know that the meeting never did happen.

But yes you are absolutely right; someone on Trumps team did seek to get dirt from russians, and then lied about it and was charged.

You think this is a big deal, and although the act trying to get dirt from the russians is not a crime, you are totally entitled to be upset about it.

However, when pointed out that we also have absolute proof that the DNC and Hillarys camp paid a law firm to get dirt from Russians, you say talking about that makes someone a traitor.

It makes no sense.

a reply to: Xcathdra

For the record, I am not mad - I saw that you are merely stating lies, and I have no time for that.

SO you are claiming that the Clinton Campaign or that the DNC worked as a foreign agent?

LOL

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Three members (so far) of the Trump Campaign have been indicted for crimes. One has been convicted of a crime directly related to the Campaign itself and is directly related to collusion with Russian agents.

Anything else at this point is just more lies and absurdities.

Really?

Whose crime is linked directly to the campaign?

Do your own research.

a reply to: Gryphon66

The one convicted was for lying. He was the one trying to get the meeting set up but never could. The indictment reads like a NY POst story while not naming the 'senior official' from the Trump campaign who told him to do it.

I mean, if you were Mueller and you handed down an indictment and you want to really tie someone to Mr. Papadoupoulos you would put it in there right? No one to protect...think about that for a minute...

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Three members (so far) of the Trump Campaign have been indicted for crimes. One has been convicted of a crime directly related to the Campaign itself and is directly related to collusion with Russian agents.

Anything else at this point is just more lies and absurdities.

Really?

Whose crime is linked directly to the campaign?

Do your own research.

so you cant support your lies...

fair enough and expected.

a reply to: Grambler

getting opposition research from a foreign agent is only a crime if you are a Republican. As Joy reid hypocritically summed up the lefts position -

The mindset of the left - they are above the law. When the right does something its illegal. When Clinton / Democrats do it its not a big deal.