Classified Docs Show Obama Illegally Spied on Americans for Years!

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: PRSpinster

Huh???

I'm pretty sure a law carrying criminal penalty has to pass through congress and such..

I'm pretty sure presidential guidelines do not carry criminal penalties.. for those you need a law.

You'd be mistaken. One can find oneself in violation of a regulation carrying criminal penalties that have never been seen by Congress. Here is an insight into this topic

Criminal laws are meant to enforce a commonly accepted moral code backed by the full force and authority of the government. Regulations, on the other hand, are meant to establish rules of the road in a variety of areas designed to curb excesses and to address consequences in a complex, rapidly evolving, highly industrialized society, with penalties attached for violations of those rules. As this Legal Memorandum will explain, blurring the two comes at a cost. Nonetheless, the reality today is that unelected officials in a myriad of federal agencies—many of which are likely unknown to the average citizen—promulgate regulations that carry criminal penalties. In fact, the regulations carrying criminal penalties have grown so voluminous that nobody really knows how many there are. The total has been conservatively estimated at over 300,000, with dozens or hundreds more being promulgated every year.[8] The mere existence of criminal regulations dramatically alters the relationship between the regulatory agency and the regulated power. All an agency has to do is suggest that a regulated person or entity might face criminal prosecution and penalties for failure to follow an agency directive, and the regulated person or entity will likely fall quickly into line without questioning the agency’s authority.[9]

Link

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Still to this day, your average conservative would agree with it, while your average liberal thinks it is horrible..

Thats just partisan opinion with no evidence behind it. If you'd like I can play logical fallacies as well.

Your average liberal loved Obama, so the average liberal loved the expansion of the patriot act.

I don't really believe that, most people weren't aware of what was done.

I think the truth is, the average AMERICAN doesn't know what's happening with the patriot act. If they did they wouldn't like it.

I'm going to share a simple piece of logic. When ANYONE says "everyone does it"...THEY ARE SUPPORTING THE PROBLEM!!! Shut them down, ignore them, tell them how un-American they are. They are supporting YOUR ENEMY!

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: SlapMonkey

What is yours "slapmonkey"?? Lol..

I was a paralegal during my service in the military (working for both Trial Defense Services and Criminal Law [defense attorneys and prosecutors]), and have spent the past six years working directly with AUSAs and federal investigatory agents concerning evidence and trial prep. Does that work for you, "JoshuaCox"?? Lol..

2) I'm pretty sure a guideline is not a law.. a law requires being passed by congress and the senate, then signed by the president..

I don't think the president alone can make laws with criminal penalties solo..

"Guidelines" can be, and often are, created in order to keep things functioning within the limitations of the law, so while "guidelines" are not in and of themselves laws, not following a guideline can certainly be a legal infraction. Of course, the charge wouldn't be, "On or about (date), at or near (location), (name here) did knowingly violate (guideline here), implemented by President Barrack Obama." The charge would be the violated law, not the violated guideline.

This is a pretty simple concept.

3) this wasn't even a good attempt not to be correlated with Russia.. nearly everything trump and conservative media has done has been to distract from Russia, weather he is guilty or not.. they all want the story to go away.

Most conservatives I know want the investigation to finish up--the problem with the non-conservative media is that they're unwilling to accept what has already been said about the collusion charge: There is no evidence of it. So, yes, as long as the MSM and liberals/progressives keep at it, more and more conservatives (and Trump) are getting tired of the beating of the supposedly dead horse. Honestly, I can't blame them...kind of like how liberals hated the birth-certificate issue.

Personally, I just want it all figured out, no matter what way it goes.

This story never even surfaces if not for Russia..

The NSA data collection issue has been a concern for many people for a long time. Your attempt to make this all about Russia is laughable.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: IAMTAT
A 'red type' announcement just went up on Drudge...stating this potential bombshell will be released very soon...possibly tonight.
If true...this could be absolutely devastating for Obama and his ex-administration.

While out of office...he should still be able to be prosecuted for this!

Stand by...as this story is about to hit...and it could be B-I-G!

I just read the article and even it doesn't claim there was anything illegal...

The article says Obama MAY HAVE not followed guidelines HE put in place..

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm betting breaking guidelines is not breaking the law...


This is a very blantant attempt to discredit the Russian conspiracy, or maybe is setting up a legal defense if a tape surfaces proving said conspiracy..

Honestly, assuming the worst case scenerio of trump being guilty.. how the evidence was gotten wouldn't change the charge...

I read it too...

Equally as confused...Apparently 5% of unmasking of American Citizens by the NSA (not Obama) resulted in the unmasking not being relevant to the intelligence being examined.

Even when an analyst figures out that the American Citizen is not relevant to the intelligence, they re-mask and move on.

How does this send President Obama to jail?

I get that folks like to spin and BS...but this is weird..Makes no sense.

Yah, but there was no intent to commit a crime.

originally posted by: toolgal462
Yah, but there was no intent to commit a crime.

And no crime committed either...

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: toolgal462
Yah, but there was no intent to commit a crime.

And no crime committed either...

I would think that is the problem. The intel community can openly violate, among other things, the 4th amendment of the Constitution and be outed by the FISA court for their bad actions and no law is broken. No negative consequence is imposed by their overseers or by their executive managers. That by definition is an agency run amok. The intel community run amok should scare all Americans regardless of political flavor. Why is there no outrage? Just simple compliance and a few bahhhh, bahhhhs.

Sad day

originally posted by: whywhynot

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: toolgal462
Yah, but there was no intent to commit a crime.

And no crime committed either...

I would think that is the problem. The intel community can openly violate, among other things, the 4th amendment of the Constitution and be outed by the FISA court for their bad actions and no law is broken.

First up...the NSA/CIA would make the case they could not know if the unmasking was relevant until they unmasked the individual and once that unmasking proved useless they destroy the record of unmasking...I watch too many intel hearings..

Next up..Is that it is bi-partisan in DC the re-authorization of the FISA Court and NSA's ability to monitor and unmask folks...You can can't the Dem and GOP congressman that oppose the re-authorization on one hand. Trump and friends are actually the ones demanding re-authorization..

a reply to: Indigo5

Sad but true.

it was originally passed by Bush, reauthorized and expanded by Obama and will be again reauthorized by Trump. This is truly D.C. Bipartisanship in action getting things done. George Orwell only suspected the half of it.

originally posted by: whywhynot
a reply to: Indigo5

Sad but true.

it was originally passed by Bush, reauthorized and expanded by Obama and will be again reauthorized by Trump. This is truly D.C. Bipartisanship in action getting things done. George Orwell only suspected the half of it.

Well...all I know is during the Intel hearings recently...
One side asked questions about trump collusion..
One side asked questions about the treasonous leaks about trump collusion..

Both sides asked the intel chiefs to kindly expound upon why the broad Surveillance Program needed to be urgently re-authorized and maybe expanded with lots of agreeing nods by congressmen.

More coming out now...........

Declassified memos show FBI illegally shared spy data on Americans with private parties

The FBI has illegally shared raw intelligence about Americans with unauthorized third parties and violated other constitutional privacy protections, according to newly declassified government documents that undercut the bureau’s public assurances about how carefully it handles warrantless spy data to avoid abuses or leaks.

I'm just loving how the left, Obama, the DNC, etc. dirt is coming to the surface. It just goes to prove my theory. The reason the left has gone insane about Trump beating the crap out of Clinton in the election, is because the left thought their "Final Solution" to take over the media, the schools, etc. would have kept them in power for decades if not forever. They counted on there not being an opposing administration and began the same corruption and crimes they executed via the DNC. They felt comfortable that there would never be anyone except the left in the White House to expose these illegal acts.

Then came Trump! And here we are watching the rats scurry around in the dirt they created themselves. Throwing out lies and rumors...using violence to attack the administration and the administration's supporters.

They are in the same mindset as when a cop pulls you over and you have something illegal sitting there on your passenger seat. They are scared, crying little children...and with any luck...will soon be fired, jailed and in some cases...maybe hung for treason.

This is going to be an AWESOME eight years

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Isn't it strange that the NYT, WaPo, CNN et al can't seem to find any 'American officials' on a daily basis to talk about this....

Nobody of any importance gets prosecuted in the US. The system couldn't bear it.

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Isn't it strange that the NYT, WaPo, CNN et al can't seem to find any 'American officials' on a daily basis to talk about this....

With the lack of evidence provided, you only have the NYT (example) to believe. A paper that HATES Trump and HATES the direction the American people chose for the nation at our last election. Who is to say they ever received any call from anyone? Who is to say they received "leaked" information. Maybe they just pulled this out of their collective asses and lied. Yes...LIED! You know...that thing liberals do when they are loosing an argument or their control of the country.

So YES! Until there is some proof, substantiated by facts and evidence...I don't believe crap that comes from liberals. Not a word...not a vowel. They have PROVEN themselves the worshipers of rumor, lies and half-truths. They have lost ALL credibility.

THEIR WORDS HOLD NO VALUE WHAT-SO-EVER! And...they CHOSE that path.

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Isn't it strange that the NYT, WaPo, CNN et al can't seem to find any 'American officials' on a daily basis to talk about this....

With the lack of evidence provided, you only have the NYT (example) to believe. A paper that HATES Trump and HATES the direction the American people chose for the nation at our last election. Who is to say they ever received any call from anyone? Who is to say they received "leaked" information. Maybe they just pulled this out of their collective asses and lied. Yes...LIED! You know...that thing liberals do when they are loosing an argument or their control of the country.

So YES! Until there is some proof, substantiated by facts and evidence...I don't believe crap that comes from liberals. Not a word...not a vowel. They have PROVEN themselves the worshipers of rumor, lies and half-truths. They have lost ALL credibility.

THEIR WORDS HOLD NO VALUE WHAT-SO-EVER! And...they CHOSE that path.

Regardless, I am hopeful Jeff Sessions does not let Obama and his spy ring off the hook as easily as the NYT et al have.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: WeAreAWAKE

originally posted by: UKTruth
a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Isn't it strange that the NYT, WaPo, CNN et al can't seem to find any 'American officials' on a daily basis to talk about this....

With the lack of evidence provided, you only have the NYT (example) to believe. A paper that HATES Trump and HATES the direction the American people chose for the nation at our last election. Who is to say they ever received any call from anyone? Who is to say they received "leaked" information. Maybe they just pulled this out of their collective asses and lied. Yes...LIED! You know...that thing liberals do when they are loosing an argument or their control of the country.

So YES! Until there is some proof, substantiated by facts and evidence...I don't believe crap that comes from liberals. Not a word...not a vowel. They have PROVEN themselves the worshipers of rumor, lies and half-truths. They have lost ALL credibility.

THEIR WORDS HOLD NO VALUE WHAT-SO-EVER! And...they CHOSE that path.

Regardless, I am hopeful Jeff Sessions does not let Obama and his spy ring off the hook as easily as the NYT et al have.

If Obama ends up getting some form of punishment for his crimes I'll eat my hat. He used to be the President and no President in history has ever paid for any crime. Once you are President you are at the highest level of elite manure.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: JoshuaCox

originally posted by: IAMTAT
A 'red type' announcement just went up on Drudge...stating this potential bombshell will be released very soon...possibly tonight.
If true...this could be absolutely devastating for Obama and his ex-administration.

While out of office...he should still be able to be prosecuted for this!

Stand by...as this story is about to hit...and it could be B-I-G!

I'm pretty sure Snowden already broke this story ..

You know what is really amazing about the Snowden story. It's nothing he said. The real story is some burger flipper off the street has access to the very highest possible security information through his employer. I'm not sure privatizing the government is a good thing to do in every case.

Which burger flipper? or are you saying people who flip burgers are from the street?