"The Force Awakens" Really Is Feminist Propaganda

a reply to: Painterz

I think the difference is Luke had training through Obi Wan and he was shooting Whomp Rats in his T-16 on Tatooine which somehow makes him adept at shooting exhaust ports which are 2 meters and Whomp Rats aren't that much bigger

Shortly before the Battle of Yavin, when Wedge Antilles protested that the two-meter target on the Death Star was impossible to hit, even for a computer, Luke Skywalker countered that he used to "bulls-eye" womp rats in his T-16 Skyhopper back home and that they were not much bigger than two meters.[1]

Rey didn't know the force even existed until after she'd flown for the first time ever in the Millenium Falcon

originally posted by: Discotech
I think the difference is Luke had training through Obi Wan...

Luke spent a whole day with Obi Wan and used his light saber for all of a couple of minutes.

Rey didn't know the force even existed until after she'd flown for the first time ever in the Millenium Falcon

We still do not know Rey's back story. It was intentionally left out in this film.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Yes and did Luke fight Vader in New Hope ? No he just used the force to bullseye the 2 meter target like he'd been doing all his life on Tatooine

In Empire he got his ass handed to him by Vader and lost a hand in the process

In Return he beat a father who wanted to turn him, not kill him and then got his ass handed to him by the Emporer with his force lightning

Anakin was no super Jedi Sith either, he got beat by Dooku and lost his hand in Attack of the Clones and got beat by Obi Wan and lost his legs in Revenge

a reply to: Discotech

So what is the problem then with this film since both Vader and the Emperor are not in it?

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The point is that although the protagonists in the previous 6 episodes were shown as having "super powers" they were also shown to have weakness

Rey seemingly has no weakness so it doesn't make for much of a film where your hero is undoubtedly unbeatable it removes any climax and doesn't give the viewer the sense of not knowing "will she, won't she" it's just horrible script writing

Not to mention Luke had the help of Han Solo in EP4 to knock Vader spinning off into space so he could line up his shot on the death star otherwise Vader would have blasted Luke away

Rey did everything by herself without any help

originally posted by: Discotech
Rey did everything by herself without any help

SPOILERS





Was she in the belly gun taking out the Tie Fighters or was it Finn?

Did she run into the woods without the saber because she felt she was unbeatable?

Did she get captured?

Did she kill Kylo Ren?

And honestly, was there any doubt in your mind that Luke, Leia and Han were not going to destroy the Death Star(s) and defeat the Empire?

Here is an excerpt from a great article about The Force Awakens by Seth Abramson where he covers all the perceived plot holes in the new film:

While it's true that Rey's remarkably smart, agile, and self-sufficient as The Force Awakens begins, it's entirely understandable that this should be so given that her origin story is similar to Luke Skywalker's only in its most general outline. Yes, Luke was a bit of an idiot early on in the original Star Wars trilogy, but that's because he was raised middle-class by two loving relatives. Sure, he was a crack shot and had an inquisitive mind, but if he often seemed, also, to be a bumbling farmhand, it's because that's by and large what he was. His very early years did not substantially harden him.

Rey's early years could not have been more different. Abandoned by her parents, she was not left in the care of loving relatives, but rather had to fend for herself on a planet every bit as inhospitable as Tatooine. She learned to dexterously make her way through dangerous space wreckage to salvage high-tech detritus; she learned how to defend herself against the (largely male) scavengers who likewise spent their days swarming over downed Empire spacecraft; she learned far more than just rudimentary piloting and repair skills because having these allowed her to do paid work for Jakku heavy Unkar Plutt, including the many months or even years of work she did for him on the Millennium Falcon -- one reason she knows it so well in the film, before she's ever flown it. Source

a reply to: Profusion

Everything you just described here is called the messiah trope and USUALLY the "messiah" in a story is a male. So why is it feminist propaganda when a female is used instead of male for once?

originally posted by: tothetenthpower

How is creating a female character, who is identical to hundreds if not thousands of other male characters?

The only answer is......because she's a woman....somehow the idea of her being 'heroic' is nonsense?

I don't care for the arguments about The Force Awakens being feminist propaganda, but i do take issue with the fact that the movie safely sits in defined guidelines and tropes. Sure, i know i shouldn't expect anything more from a Star Wars movie, but the general plot has been done before and the whole hero thing gets annoying.

I don't care that Rey is female, i care that she is relatively overpowered as a character. I think the same of Luke, too, but at least he had some professional training before wielding a lightsaber in combat... At least he had some help with using the force for the first time. From what we know of Rey, she doesn't have professional training in either, which makes it absurd that she is able to use effective force techniques and wield a lightsaber against an experienced exponent. She may have had training in the past, but we better get a good good explanation (and i don't think amnesia is a good excuse). I'm not holding my breath.

In the end, i think It would be good if we could get a much more humanised character, rather than one who can do everything straight of the bat.

originally posted by: daaskapital
I don't care that Rey is female, i care that she is relatively overpowered as a character.

She got captured and if it were not for Han, Chewie and Finn returning with the Falcon she may have been stuck there.

I think it's obvious that she has been trained in the past, prior to being dropped off to Jakku. I'm not convinced she is Luke's daughter yet, they seem to be trying too hard to make it appear that way.

All the points in the OP are mute as they don't yet know Rey's backstory but I don't think there is any doubt that she is trained.
She knew exactly how to influence the StormTrooper (Who was played by 007)to set her free and when Kylo Ren mentions the force at the end of the battle, it sparks a memory and she then has her Zen moment before defeating Kylo Ren.
That shows that she has had training in the past.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
...(Who was played by 007)...

Star Wars trivia: the stormtrooper's ID number was JB-007.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Eh who was that stormtroopers?.
Also after seven times seeing it I can not find Simon pegg any ideas.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

No, she got captured

Then resisted mind techniques from an adept force user who HAS had training from both Luke and Snokes
Then she used mind control on a storm trooper that until now we've only seen a JEDI MASTER in the form of Obi Wan use
Then she escaped on her own and would have escaped regardless if Han, Chewie and Finn showed up as when the group find her she is well on her way to getting to stealing a ship from the base hangar

It's not that she's female, it's that she's too powerful for seemingly no training or practice and having only recently discovered (like a day or 2) that the force is something real

It doesn't matter what backstory YOU wish conjure up to explain this, it is not explained in the movie, therefore is poor plot and character development

a reply to: boymonkey74

Daniel Craig is the trooper who releases Rey

Simon Pegg is I think the Scrap dealer on Jaaku

originally posted by: Discotech
Then resisted mind techniques from an adept force user who HAS had training from both Luke and Snokes

How do you know she had no training?

Then she used mind control on a storm trooper that until now we've only seen a JEDI MASTER in the form of Obi Wan use
...

Luke tried and failed on Jabba.

Then she escaped on her own and would have escaped regardless if Han, Chewie and Finn showed up as when the group find her she is well on her way to getting to stealing a ship from the base hangar

Really? Kylo Ren makes it clear he knows that is her intention. How do you know the ship sitting there is not a decoy?

It's not that she's female, it's that she's too powerful for seemingly no training or practice and having only recently discovered (like a day or 2) that the force is something real

Luke had almost zero training with Obi Wan and then bailed on Yoda almost immediately when he went to Bespin.

It doesn't matter what backstory YOU wish conjure up to explain this, it is not explained in the movie, therefore is poor plot and character development

I am not going to have to conjure a backstory. J.J. Abrams made it clear that he last name was intentionally left out as her backstory would be addressed in the next film.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

How do you know she had no training?

I don't, there is nothing to suggest she had any training within the film therefore one has to assume she has not

Luke tried and failed on Jabba.

Yes but before he tried on Jabba he successfully used the Jedi mind trick on Bib Fortuna, to which Jabba says "weak minded fool" therefore it's easy to assume that Hutts are not as easy to use mind tricks on, we further see evidence in Episode 1 where Qui Gon tried to use a mind trick on Watoo who says "Jedi mind tricks don't work on Toydarians" so there's obviously races which are immune to Jedi mind tricks, Hutts being one of those

Really? Kylo Ren makes it clear he knows that is her intention. How do you know the ship sitting there is not a decoy?

When ? It's pretty obvious to anyone, that if a person is captured against their will, their primary goal is to escape

Not to mention if he knew she was going to escape why would he return to the cell, find she has escaped and go into his petulant rage, that doesn't suggest to me what you're saying

Luke had almost zero training with Obi Wan and then bailed on Yoda almost immediately when he went to Bespin.

And look what happened when he reached Bespin, Han got frozen in carbonite and Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader and lost his hand and saber

I am not going to have to conjure a backstory. J.J. Abrams made it clear that he last name was intentionally left out as her backstory would be addressed in the next film.

You are conjuring up a backstory by claiming she has had training based on a lack of backstory that will only be explained in the next film, how does that work ? Where is the logic in that ? Also to viewers who don't follow what Abrams says about the film just how exactly are they supposed to know this ?

originally posted by: Discotech
I don't, there is nothing to suggest she had any training within the film therefore one has to assume she has not

The safe assumption is that her backstory will be revealed in the next film as it was intentionally left out in this one.

Yes but before he tried on Jabba he successfully used the Jedi mind trick on Bib Fortuna...

The point was that someone other then Obi Wan used this method.

When ? It's pretty obvious to anyone, that if a person is captured against their will, their primary goal is to escape

When does he say that? After she escapes from confinement. He warns a stormtrooper that she will likely try to steal a ship and escape.

Not to mention if he knew she was going to escape why would he return to the cell, find she has escaped and go into his petulant rage, that doesn't suggest to me what you're saying

Watch the film again.

And look what happened when he reached Bespin, Han got frozen in carbonite and Luke got his ass handed to him by Vader and lost his hand and saber
...

Perhaps if he had the tough, solitary background that Rey had he may have fared better.

You are conjuring up a backstory by claiming she has had training based on a lack of backstory that will only be explained in the next film, how does that work ? Where is the logic in that ? Also to viewers who don't follow what Abrams says about the film just how exactly are they supposed to know this ?

I said YOU cannot speculate that she had NO training as her backstory has not been revealed. She may have had training, she may have had none, one of us (you) is claiming definitively as opposed to saying 'wait and see'.

And to claim you need logic to figure out she has some sort of Force-sensitive pedigree is just dopey, of course she does, Lucas made it clear the Star Wars saga is the saga of the Skywalker family. She is related somehow.

I was more annoyed that Finn was able to haphazardly swing a lightsaber and do damage against Ren than Rey switching on her force powers.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

Don't forget that Ren took a blaster shot from Chewbacca's bowcaster which seemed to knock the average person back 10 feet.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Eh who was that stormtroopers?.
Also after seven times seeing it I can not find Simon pegg any ideas.

Seven times???!?

/bow

Pegg's on Jakku...