"The Force Awakens" Really Is Feminist Propaganda

originally posted by: boymonkey74
The force awakened...
It is going to be 3 movies we have no idea on how and why.
But we will and I bet we go "ah that's why".

Read the article I linked, it does a great job analyzing the film and mythology.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Luke was able to use the force the same day he learned about to destroy an entire space station.

Like i said in an earlier reply to you, i have my problems with Luke too. That being one of them. Still, at least he had guidance from Obi Wan Kenobi prior to, and during, the assault on the Death Star. It still falls far too short from what i like in character progression, but at least they gave a half arsed reason. With Rey, she didn't even know what the force was or how it worked until Han Solo told her about it. She went off and done # Luke took multiple movies to do in the span of one. Sure, she was likely trained in the use of the force earlier in her life, but she can't recall much of her childhood and it stands to reason that she wouldn't recall much of her Jedi training either. Even if she did, she hasn't used it in ages and shouldn't be able to do all the things she did so early.

Just like everyone else in her family.

Yes, but at least there was some attempt to show that they had training before being able to use the force. Anakin, the chosen one, had to be adequately trained before he consciously knew how to manipulate the force and use a lightsaber.

a reply to: daaskapital

at the same time, she has lived on her own and learned skills by herself. For all I know, these things could leak out until she was awakened, which at that time, a large part of her full potential was released. So to me, it seems it's been there for a long time

a reply to: daaskapital

As Kyo just mentioned, Rey is more similar to Anakin than Luke which is also paralleled by Kylo. She subsisted on her own in the dessert and needed to be resourceful. Her more intuitive use of the Force can be attributed to her as yet-to-be-revealed background and her skill at survival in a hostile environment whereas Luke grew up relatively pampered in comparison to Rey.

I just do not see the character as much of a Mary Sue as some people. To be honest I found her character portrayal to be wholly likeable and in a position to have a very interesting story arc in the upcoming films.

originally posted by: KyoZero
a reply to: daaskapital

at the same time, she has lived on her own and learned skills by herself. For all I know, these things could leak out until she was awakened, which at that time, a large part of her full potential was released. So to me, it seems it's been there for a long time

I wouldn't have a problem with it if they just slowed it down a bit and explained it better.

I have no doubt that Rey is a resourceful and strong character, but i don't see how it translates to her having the ability to use a lightsaber (which is not the same as a staff) and using the force to the same extent as trained Jedi in previous movies. I just find it a bit absurd, but as i said way earlier in the thread, i will hold off final judgement until we get the other movies.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: daaskapital

As Kyo just mentioned, Rey is more similar to Anakin than Luke which is also paralleled by Kylo. She subsisted on her own in the dessert and needed to be resourceful. Her more intuitive use of the Force can be attributed to her as yet-to-be-revealed background and her skill at survival in a hostile environment whereas Luke grew up relatively pampered in comparison to Rey.

I just do not see the character as much of a Mary Sue as some people. To be honest I found her character portrayal to be wholly likeable and in a position to have a very interesting story arc in the upcoming films.

She's more similar to Anakin, and yet he still had to go through years of training to command such use of the force despite having it already working in him as a child (with the concentration and pod racing stuff).

I think Rey is a good character, but i also think they made her too powerful, too fast. She's a good pilot, a good shot, a good duelist and a good force wielder all in the span of one movie. Don't get me wrong, i don't think she is a Mary Sue. I just think they progressed her too fast for my own personal liking. My main gripe is with her ability in using the force without any recent professional training. She literally went through three different force techniques in 30 minutes, even though she didn't even know what the force was or how to use it prior to doing so. I am willing to wait and see what the explanation is behind that before making any conclusive judgements however.

originally posted by: daaskapital
She's more similar to Anakin, and yet he still had to go through years of training to command such use of the force despite having it already working in him as a child (with the concentration and pod racing stuff).

She obviously has a significant amount of hand to hand training as she dispatched the two people sent to grab BB-8 with her staff which is why I did not find it so unbelievable that she could wield a sword-like weapon with some proficiency against a wounded adversary.

I think Rey is a good character, but i also think they made her too powerful, too fast. She's a good pilot, a good shot, a good duelist and a good force wielder all in the span of one movie. Don't get me wrong, i don't think she is a Mary Sue. I just think they progressed her too fast for my own personal liking. My main gripe is with her ability in using the force without any recent professional training. She literally went through three different force techniques in 30 minutes, even though she didn't even know what the force was or how to use it prior to doing so.

She still had her emotional and internal struggles that had to be overcome. The pilot and physical combat aspects are rather easy for me to overlook considering her demonstrated ability to fight and her statement that she can 'fly anything'. Her resourcefulness is made clear.

As for ability to utilize the Force the films subtitle is 'The Force Awakens', it is obviously in her that is has awakened and obviously with some potency.

I am willing to wait and see what the explanation is behind that before making any conclusive judgements however.

Same. I think we will all be pleased with the character development and arc and we may even get an Easter Egg or two in the Rogue One film this December.

Well you are neglecting the fact that she's the granddaughter of the "chosen" one and most powerful force user in history.

Ok I just watched it again, in the vision she's on Jaaku as a young child, screaming "noooo come back" and the junk dealer ordering her to "quiet girl", the child seems too young to have had any training like 4 or 5 years old. And then there's the voice which sounds like Obi Wan which says Rey, then she's in the forest, the same snow laden forest we see her in at the end of the film when she confronts kylo, then the vision ends with a whisper of "these are your first steps".

Now we can take the whisper 1 of 2 ways, either it's Reys first steps to remembering or, it's Reys first steps to becoming attuned with the force. Given how it's presented in the film I'd say it's first steps of becoming attuned with the force which ties in with the whole awakening theme, therefore no training, what she's learnt she's learnt on her own therefore she's too powerful as a character. Now it's not that she's female, I would be saying the same thing if Reys character was male, the way she is written is just too good too quick, I mean if she's so powerful and amazing at everything now (really she's gone beyond how Luke was written in the OT), how powerful is she going to be when she's gotten some guidance off Luke and I'd imagine the Force ghosts of Yoda and Obi Wan too seeing as though Obi Wan's voice is already guiding her with the vision ?

a reply to: Discotech

Maybe her insane powers are down to there only being 2 Jedi and 2 sith left in the galaxy. Ren was able to stop that shot in mid air which hasn't been done before. Or maybe they just need to show new things with the force to keep it interesting.

a reply to: MagnaCarta2015

See that's the problem I have with Rey's character, the scene previous to her capture scene Kylo is freezing her like he froze the blaster shot, he's successfully probing her mind and then puts her to sleep so he can take her back to the base.

Then the next scene with the two, Rey is not only resisting the mind probing but actually getting inside of Kylo's head for her to make the comment that Kylo is afraid of never being as strong as Vader. Then in the forest at first Kylo force pushes Rey up in the air and knocks her out cold, then she gets up once Finn is bested, saber flies to her hands and suddenly she's holding her own somewhat in the duel but eventually she gets pushed back to the cliff edge until Kylo says "I can teach you the ways of the force" to which she closes her eyes, thinks of the force then wham she's got the saber skills of a Jedi Knight and quickly dispatches off Kylo with a few saber moves.

Also there's 2 Sith in the form of Kylo and Snokes but only 1 Jedi, Luke, Rey isn't a Jedi yet she's only just discovered the force remember. Not to mention what happened to the rest of the apprentices that Luke was training in his school ? He wasn't training just Kylo was he ?

There's also the line from Snokes "If Skywalker returns the new Jedi will rise" so that reveals why they're looking for him, but it still leaves questions the main being is it refering to Rey alone as the new Jedi in a singular sense or Luke teaching many Jedi to put a stop from the First Order/Empire as a plural sense as Jedi is both singular and plural

originally posted by: acrux
This movie is just a rehash of the previous movies' storylines.

* Give important data to robot that runs off into desert. (Star War 4)
* Rescue girl from enemy base. (Star Wars 4)
* Destroy giant death star/planet.(Star Wars 4 & 6)
* Sneak into enemy base to turn off shields to blow up enemy base. (Star Wars 6)
* Attack one point to destroy enemy base. (Star Wars 4)
* Run off to old allies for help. (Star Wars 5)

I sure other people can name more.

yup, the storytelling needs to open up more. rehashing old plot lines has got to stop in the next one. I think the goal was to tie up some loose strings...hope so

1. The female protagonist is a naturally great pilot. With no training or experience she's as good as anyone we've seen at piloting the Millennium Falcon.

So was Luke. Though he hinted at piloting a T-16 Skyhopper, we still never saw it prior to his X-Wing flying. Like him, she has the Force on her side. (she is "the awakening" after all).

2. The female protagonist has more powerful mind tricks than anyone else in the movie (possibly in the history of Star Wars), with no training or experience

Works on the weak-minded. Who is weaker-minded than the Stormtroopers brainwashed since youth? Plus, I have a feeling she WAS trained, and that this was wiped from her.

3. The female protagonist can naturally resist the mind tricks of a Sith Lord, with no training or experience

See above. Plus, she's likely just way stronger naturally than Kylo Ren, in the Force. Chances are, she's Luke's daughter after all. (just an assumption)

4. The female protagonist can hold her own in a lightsaber battle with a Sith Lord, with no training or experience

First, he's not really a Sith Lord....he's still in training himself. Second, he just got shot with a Wookie bowcaster (a weapon that typically not only killed in one shot, but sent you flying back 15 feet). I'd say he did OK after taking that!

5. The female protagonist is naturally awesome with a laser blaster, with no training or experience

Again, the latent Force talent and reflexes. Her first few shots missed.

6. The female protagonist is naturally brilliant at everything and she has no weaknesses

Well, she is a bit "Mary Sue", but then again, so was Luke. Like Luke, we probably won't see her weaknesses until the second film.

7. The female protagonist doesn't need anybody's help, she's better than everyone else at everything anyway

She still needed help here and there, as did Luke.

I wouldn't be surprised if in Episode 8 we see Rey (the female protagonist) teaching Luke Skywalker about how to be a Jedi, that would be the icing on the cake.

Pretty sure we'll learn Rey is Luke's daughter, and he'll train her like Yoda trained him (and we'll likely learn she had some early training but was memory wiped prior to being dumped on Jakku).


If it makes you feel any better, like Gamorra in Guardians of the Galaxy, Rey is EXTREMELY underrepresented in any of the merchandise for the film (I don't even think the Star Wars Monopoly game has her as a fig, when she's the main character! for example....).

a reply to: Profusion

Uh, it's luke's kid. That pretty well explains everything, right?

Just WOW!

a reply to: pl3bscheese

I think it's simpler than that.

It all began when Kylo started to get into her head and she was able to resist him.

It's belief in oneself.

When Luke was on Dagobah with Yoda and he was trying to force lift his X-wing out of the swamp, he didn't believe he could do it, so couldn't.

Remember Yoda's most famous line?

Do, or do not. There is no try

Rey had that belief.

a reply to: Profusion

I actually came into this thread to say that the OP obviously hasn't watched the Hateful Eight yet....

Kinda shoots down any feminist propaganda from Hollywood!

a reply to: Chadwickus

A million kids believe they're going to be astronauts or professional athletes, yet only the most genetically gifted get the chance in the end.

Would yoda spend his time trying to train someone who showed so little potential? In both movies, the talk is how they are talented and strong with the force. You see that same magic IRL when talented individuals seem to do the impossible with ease. I got it with a few things.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

I think you missed my point..

Once Kylo got spooked she clicked onto what she was, and what she was capable of, and had no self doubt about it.

a reply to: Chadwickus

I get where this is going, so am not going to bother to try and change your mind.

You're focusing on her lack of self-doubt, I'm saying it's irrelevant in the big picture. Is it just a coincidence that this girl who has no self-doubt happens to be lukes kid? Cmon, my point is valid. It may take her having no self doubt to fully actualize her potential (isn't that true of everyone?), but if she wasn't luke's kid, she wouldn't have the same ability to capture the force regardless of her will power and ability to believe in herself.

No worries, let's just agree to disagree.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

No I agree that she is Luke's daughter, or the daughter of someone who has the force within them, which at the moment is only Luke..

The two things coincide with each other, she's always had the force within her, and therefore stuff went her way, apart from being a poor junker lol.