Question to those who say being gay is a choice?

originally posted by: Elton
I don't think it is a choice unless you are bisexual and then chose to suppress half of your desires.

I suspect that the homophobic ministers and lawmakers in the Bible belt are predominately bisexual as they always say it is a choice (which makes me suspect they are struggling with their own sexualities...) I've never had a choice in who I am attracted to, it just happens.

First, you are correct. Most “homophobic” ministers do struggle with their desire to be sexual in taboo ways (like being with a “sissy” boy or a “trans” woman for example). Sex is such a BIG deal for these repressed people, they do what most human being would do: they desire the forbidden fruit. Acting on this is a choice, and thus they preach against the very thing that they themselves struggle with.

Not everyone has this struggle.

Human beings are both spiritual and sexual.
For most people, that is not a big problem.
But for some, fidelity is.

We can label it "bisexual" but it is really just being human, and being human means being spiritual and sexual. These things are related, and can afford many choices. Being “faithful” to your husband or wife is a choice.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TinkerHaus


That is to say, either you accept what is universally accepted as a deviant sexual behavior because they cannot choose what they are attracted to, or you find a different benchmark to use in conversation when trying to convince someone that being gay is ok.

Your ignorance shows.

One is between consenting people..one is about abusing individuals for their own sexual gratification.

One is rape and abuse and the other is not..get that through your head.

deviant sexual behavior

Also why does homosexuality always come down to sex to you guys....it is never about sex to me, it is about two people loving one another..

Stop picturing people having sex and picturing them loving one another..maybe that will help change your ignorance.

No - your ignorance shows.

I'm not equating the two behaviors, I'm saying that if the criteria for whether or not it's an acceptable lifestyle is simply "ITS NOT A CHOICE" then you need to ask yourself why one is acceptable and the other isn't.

I'm sure pedophiles don't one day say "I CHOOSE TO BE A PEDOPHILE!"

No, rather one day they CHOOSE to act on those feelings. So whether or not it's a choice is a moot point, unless you want to say that pedophilia is ok as well.

What aren't you understanding?

Homosexuality is just like any other fetish...All people like and are attracted to other, sometimes, taboo kinds of things. Some women like men and women, some like only men, or only women. Same can be said for men. I asked the question earlier and no one answered. So I will ask again....Why does it matter if it is a choice or not? To tell you the truth, I have no problem with homosexuals at all, and have know quite a few in my life. The one thing I will say I DO NOT LIKE, is when somebody thinks that they need to "come out of the closet" or announce to others they are gay, or act overly flamboyant. WHO CARES?!?! Those are the people that piss me off. It seems to me like with most anything else, they are seeking some kind of attention or validation. I do not go around announcing that I LOVE women, so why do some feel they need to make a big deal of it? I will tell you why, the same reason a lot of kids started smoking or doing drugs, or whatever teenagers do these days....because they are rebelling in some fashion or another.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
I personally believe that everyone is bisexual to some degree. Anyone who says they've never been attracted to someone of the same sex is lying.

Spoken as someone who has, at one point, been attracted to someone of the same sex... and assumes everyone is like them. That's how YOU are. Not everyone is like that. There are plenty of people who are completely grossed out by the thought of it and have NEVER, EVER been attracted to someone of the same sex.

We are sexual creature - we're attracted to the thought of and the act of sex. It's not male or female.

If you are a male and you've ever watched pornography featuring a male, and still managed to keep an erection you are at least somewhat attracted to males - or at least the idea of males getting it on.

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

You lie - but keep telling yourself that if that's what you need to tell yourself!

I know I'm not lying and I can bet others aren't either..are you trying to push your own issues onto others?

Attempting to make your own conflicts..everyone's?

Are you saying there are days where you feel the same sex could be an option or at what point in your life you were conflicted?

If your bisexual it is OK..but generally most people do have preferences they are born with...straights and gays.

originally posted by: thesmokingman
Homosexuality is just like any other fetish...All people like and are attracted to other, sometimes, taboo kinds of things. Some women like men and women, some like only men, or only women. Same can be said for men. I asked the question earlier and no one answered. So I will ask again....Why does it matter if it is a choice or not? To tell you the truth, I have no problem with homosexuals at all, and have know quite a few in my life. The one thing I will say I DO NOT LIKE, is when somebody thinks that they need to "come out of the closet" or announce to others they are gay, or act overly flamboyant. WHO CARES?!?! Those are the people that piss me off. It seems to me like with most anything else, they are seeking some kind of attention or validation. I do not go around announcing that I LOVE women, so why do some feel they need to make a big deal of it? I will tell you why, the same reason a lot of kids started smoking or doing drugs, or whatever teenagers do these days....because they are rebelling in some fashion or another.

This is kind of my point - why does it matter if it's a choice. And again, if the criteria for whether or not it's an acceptable behavior is the idea that it's NOT a choice, how can you people justify the double standard when condemning acts that are equally not a choice but are unacceptable to your morality?

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
I personally believe that everyone is bisexual to some degree. Anyone who says they've never been attracted to someone of the same sex is lying. I think the atmosphere in which you are raised has a lot to do with whether or not you end up being gay or not. Not that either direction is more or less than the other.

And no, I'm not saying that the atmosphere that produces a straight or gay person is abnormal or deviant at all either - but I do believe that there is a strong chance that the first things that trigger sexual thoughts or feelings when we're children will eventually help shape our sexuality.

I do think at some point homosexuality is a choice.. That doesn't mean it's like a switch you can flip on and off, but I believe we are humans and we're sexual creatures and we're sexually drawn to sexual acts. At some point we make a determination as to what we accept from ourselves and what is unacceptable. From this point forward we cultivate and nurture that choice until it becomes such a part of us that it is no longer a choice at all.

I don't think it's a choice in the way that those who would demonize LGBT people would define it.

Stopped reading when you said that "anybody that says they have never been attracted to the opposite sex is lying". I am 39 years old and have never found another man "attractive". It is unwise for you to try and speak for everybody.

You lie - but keep telling yourself that if that's what you need to tell yourself!

Um, OK....You do realize that not EVERYBODY has the same feelings as you do right? I am sorry but that is a very ignorant assumption and accusation, but, if that's what you need to tell yourself.....

originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
I personally believe that everyone is bisexual to some degree. Anyone who says they've never been attracted to someone of the same sex is lying. I think the atmosphere in which you are raised has a lot to do with whether or not you end up being gay or not. Not that either direction is more or less than the other.

And no, I'm not saying that the atmosphere that produces a straight or gay person is abnormal or deviant at all either - but I do believe that there is a strong chance that the first things that trigger sexual thoughts or feelings when we're children will eventually help shape our sexuality.

I do think at some point homosexuality is a choice.. That doesn't mean it's like a switch you can flip on and off, but I believe we are humans and we're sexual creatures and we're sexually drawn to sexual acts. At some point we make a determination as to what we accept from ourselves and what is unacceptable. From this point forward we cultivate and nurture that choice until it becomes such a part of us that it is no longer a choice at all.

I don't think it's a choice in the way that those who would demonize LGBT people would define it.

Stopped reading when you said that "anybody that says they have never been attracted to the opposite sex is lying". I am 39 years old and have never found another man "attractive". It is unwise for you to try and speak for everybody.

You lie - but keep telling yourself that if that's what you need to tell yourself!

Um, OK....You do realize that not EVERYBODY has the same feelings as you do right? I am sorry but that is a very ignorant assumption and accusation, but, if that's what you need to tell yourself.....

So you've never watched pornography with a male and a female? You only watch lesbian porn?

You avoid seeing yourself naked when you're having intercourse with a female?

a reply to: TinkerHaus

If you have a desire that is harmful to other then you have a choice to follow the desire or not follow it.

We should not accept harmful desires, only because someone have them and cannot control them. People that have desires that are not good for them and others, need help learning control of them and not acting on them.

It is not just pedophilia, it is rape, mind manipulation to control another, rage.

A person who have problems with desires that are harmful and seek help and never act on them is a hero to me. A person who will not allow himself/herself to create suffering in others controlling themselves.

I myself have temper issues sometimes and want to kick someones ass. That I do not do violence even when I have an urge proves that I have learned some self control.

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
then you need to ask yourself why one is acceptable and the other isn't.



What aren't you understanding?

Again your ignorance is showing...you really need to ask why one is acceptable and the other isn't?

Am I understanding you correctly that if we accept homosexuals(two consenting adults or teens) we must accept pedophilia (physical and emotional abuse of children).

You are actually equating the two?

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

originally posted by: thesmokingman

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
I personally believe that everyone is bisexual to some degree. Anyone who says they've never been attracted to someone of the same sex is lying. I think the atmosphere in which you are raised has a lot to do with whether or not you end up being gay or not. Not that either direction is more or less than the other.

And no, I'm not saying that the atmosphere that produces a straight or gay person is abnormal or deviant at all either - but I do believe that there is a strong chance that the first things that trigger sexual thoughts or feelings when we're children will eventually help shape our sexuality.

I do think at some point homosexuality is a choice.. That doesn't mean it's like a switch you can flip on and off, but I believe we are humans and we're sexual creatures and we're sexually drawn to sexual acts. At some point we make a determination as to what we accept from ourselves and what is unacceptable. From this point forward we cultivate and nurture that choice until it becomes such a part of us that it is no longer a choice at all.

I don't think it's a choice in the way that those who would demonize LGBT people would define it.

Stopped reading when you said that "anybody that says they have never been attracted to the opposite sex is lying". I am 39 years old and have never found another man "attractive". It is unwise for you to try and speak for everybody.

You lie - but keep telling yourself that if that's what you need to tell yourself!

Um, OK....You do realize that not EVERYBODY has the same feelings as you do right? I am sorry but that is a very ignorant assumption and accusation, but, if that's what you need to tell yourself.....

So you've never watched pornography with a male and a female? You only watch lesbian porn?

You avoid seeing yourself naked when you're having intercourse with a female?

I get where you are coming from but why do you seem intent on getting someone to admit they have homosexual thoughts?

Does it really matter to you?

People are people and regardless of sexuality most relationships are based on happiness and mutual agreement and sexual intercourse is a minor factor in the long term.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

You lie - but keep telling yourself that if that's what you need to tell yourself!

I know I'm not lying and I can bet others aren't either..are you trying to push your own issues onto others?

Attempting to make your own conflicts..everyone's?

Are you saying there are days where you feel the same sex could be an option or at what point in your life you were conflicted?

If your bisexual it is OK..but generally most people do have preferences they are born with...straights and gays.

I don't own a bisexual, so I'm unsure what you are referring to.

I'm saying that humans are animals, and we're attracted to the idea of sex.

I'm not so pigheaded as to get offended that you're trying to on the one hand say being gay is perfectly ok, but on the other hand insult me because you perceived that I might be gay or bisexual.

I will say it again - if you've ever watched pornography and been turned on by a male and a female having sex on screen, you are not 100% straight and cannot claim that you've never been turned on by a man. You were turned on by what a naked man was doing to a naked woman...

That doesn't mean you're gay, or bisexual - it just means you're a human animal. Don't take so much offense to it, it's ok to be gay!

originally posted by: thesmokingman
I asked the question earlier and no one answered. So I will ask again....Why does it matter if it is a choice or not?

It shouldn't but I asked the question because it seems to be an argument for those who wish to deny other people's freedom.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

You lie - but keep telling yourself that if that's what you need to tell yourself!

I know I'm not lying and I can bet others aren't either..are you trying to push your own issues onto others?

Attempting to make your own conflicts..everyone's?

Are you saying there are days where you feel the same sex could be an option or at what point in your life you were conflicted?

If your bisexual it is OK..but generally most people do have preferences they are born with...straights and gays.

I think that is exactly what they were doing....One is not born racist, just as one is not born gay...it involves outside factors such as enviorment and choices made in ones own life. If you want to be gay or bi, fine, but dont assume that everyone else has those feelings as well. To be quite honest with you, I actually find two men togeter in any way gut turning and disgusting...and thats the truth. Now, before you try and flame me for being unsensitive or homophobic, just remember I tried handling it the nice way, I just do not appreciate being called a liar...

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
then you need to ask yourself why one is acceptable and the other isn't.



What aren't you understanding?

Again your ignorance is showing...you really need to ask why one is acceptable and the other isn't?

Am I understanding you correctly that if we accept homosexuals(two consenting adults or teens) we must accept pedophilia (physical and emotional abuse of children).

You are actually equating the two?

You need to address my entire comment and not just one sentence - it makes you look like a buffoon.

Yes, if the baseline for whether or not it's a socially acceptable behavior is whether or not it's a choice, then absolutely you must consider ALL THINGS THAT ARE NOT A CHOICE.

Do you really think pedophiles choose to be pedophiles? If you do, then why do they make that choice but gay people are just the way the are?

Answer the entire question, don't just copy a line and pretend you're clever.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: thesmokingman
I asked the question earlier and no one answered. So I will ask again....Why does it matter if it is a choice or not?

It shouldn't but I asked the question because it seems to be an argument for those who wish to deny other people's freedom.

Who exactly is denying anyones freedom? Last I checked, outside of Russia, it is perfectly fine to be homosexual.

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
I personally believe that everyone is bisexual to some degree. Anyone who says they've never been attracted to someone of the same sex is lying.

Spoken as someone who has, at one point, been attracted to someone of the same sex... and assumes everyone is like them. That's how YOU are. Not everyone is like that. There are plenty of people who are completely grossed out by the thought of it and have NEVER, EVER been attracted to someone of the same sex.

We are sexual creature - we're attracted to the thought of and the act of sex. It's not male or female.

If you are a male and you've ever watched pornography featuring a male, and still managed to keep an erection you are at least somewhat attracted to males - or at least the idea of males getting it on.

Or you put yourself in the position thinking the male body penetrating the woman is your body and not someone else. Some people can think themselves as having another body than the one they are using as a vehicle.

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

You lie - but keep telling yourself that if that's what you need to tell yourself!

I know I'm not lying and I can bet others aren't either..are you trying to push your own issues onto others?

Attempting to make your own conflicts..everyone's?

Are you saying there are days where you feel the same sex could be an option or at what point in your life you were conflicted?

If your bisexual it is OK..but generally most people do have preferences they are born with...straights and gays.

I don't own a bisexual, so I'm unsure what you are referring to.

I'm saying that humans are animals, and we're attracted to the idea of sex.

I'm not so pigheaded as to get offended that you're trying to on the one hand say being gay is perfectly ok, but on the other hand insult me because you perceived that I might be gay or bisexual.

I will say it again - if you've ever watched pornography and been turned on by a male and a female having sex on screen, you are not 100% straight and cannot claim that you've never been turned on by a man. You were turned on by what a naked man was doing to a naked woman...

That doesn't mean you're gay, or bisexual - it just means you're a human animal. Don't take so much offense to it, it's ok to be gay!

Again I am not disagreeing but watching a male and a female having sex and getting turned on is natuaral, it does not not imply anything as regards anything.

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
If you are a male and you've ever watched pornography featuring a male, and still managed to keep an erection you are at least somewhat attracted to males - or at least the idea of males getting it on.

I wasn't speaking of myself. My sexuality isn't in question here. I'm saying that not everyone shares your sexuality, which appears to be somewhat bisexual, which is fine.

Straight males watching heterosexual porn like it because they imagine themselves being the man in the situation. They aren't looking at his body parts and being sexually aroused by them. They aren't thinking about touching the man or loving the man. They're thinking about BEING the man.

a reply to: raedar

Wrong. Rape is rape regardless of who you rape. Pedophelia is a condition, not an action. My position isn't the popular one, it's the correct one and you can't argue against it without referring to pedophelia as an act... which is intellectually dishonest.