Question to those who say being gay is a choice?

originally posted by: Onslaught2996
So why is it any different for gay people?

Why don't you go and ask one.

As with many things in life, people tend to over-analyse if the are not X or Y.

What makes someone gay? What makes someone go jogging, or keep bees? Well, ultimately it's what they do, and that's that. I keep bees because that's what I like and that's what rings my bells - it's how I am. I am sure a gay person is gay because that's how they are.

I have to say I know one openly gay man and he's just like me, except he does not keep bees and I don't fancy men.

One day soon it will be legal for pedephiles to have sex with children and it will be because this society have no morals and everyone want you to believe that homosexuality is not a choice, It is a choice but what is this sick society going to say when they are asked to accept pediphiles as normal behavior, which one of you is going to offer up your child for these monsters to have sex with.

a reply to: TinkerHaus

Anyone who says they've never been attracted to someone of the same sex is lying.

That's a broad sweeping statement. You are not god nor are you a psychic. You do not know the minds of people.

people choose to let themselves become addicted to drugs too

life is tough choices, but ultimately it is a personal choice; no matter how you choose to justify it

I have been asked " are you gay" a few times in the past.

My answer was and always will be " I don't know yet"

Who knows and who cares.

I do not think so but if the right guy comes along then maybe... just maybe I will change my mind in the persuit of happiness.

originally posted by: carolenej1
One day soon it will be legal for pedephiles to have sex with children and it will be because this society have no morals and everyone want you to believe that homosexuality is not a choice, It is a choice but what is this sick society going to say when they are asked to accept pediphiles as normal behavior, which one of you is going to offer up your child for these monsters to have sex with.

Seriously? I mean... really?

Is this really where people take this? Why don't you say the same thing about heterosexuality leading to pedophilia? You do understand that pedophilia isn't a "gay" thing, right? 1 in 5 women were sexually abused as children compared to 1 in 20 men... if you do the math and assume the abuser was a male, wouldn't you say that pedophilia has more in common with heterosexuality?

So, when you bring up pedophilia in a debate about gay stuff... it makes zero sense.

a reply to: TinkerHaus

If you are a male and you've ever watched pornography featuring a male, and still managed to keep an erection you are at least somewhat attracted to males - or at least the idea of males getting it on.

WTF did I just read?

They are attracted to the idea of SEX, not to males.

Most of the time I watch lesbian porn. Lot of men I know watch only lesbian porn or just one woman pleasuring herself. But... but... wait a minute... according to you, they are lying?

a reply to: Onslaught2996

I see it this way, you are born either male or female, in some instances nature plays a joke and you may be born with both sexes, test are done to make sure to chose the dominant sex.

So if we are born with the right equipment by nature to be either male or female, then I see it as a choice to change sexual preferences later in life, I don't believe that a baby boy or baby girl knows at that time what they really want to be before they are exposed to the differences in sexes.

The irony.

Yeah it's a strange accusation.


Usually, when avoiding that line of thinking...


They go one further and say it's Demons...

Ok, usually, that's on Jerry Springer, but still happens.





Nothing funnier than seeing a woman trying to cast Demons out of her Gay relative...
Only for the relative to snatch the Bible from her hand, & to cast the Demons out of her...

There is no better rebuttal to that nonsense.

I would guess that, in reality, there are different reasons for "being gay."

New research demonstrates some very reasonable connections between the genetic structures that create "gay men" particularly also result in increased fertility in their mothers and aunts:

We observed that the maternal aunts and grandmothers of homosexual probands were significantly more fecund compared with the maternal aunts and maternal grandmothers of the heterosexual probands. No difference in fecundity was observed in the paternal female lines (grandmothers or aunts) from either of the two proband groups. Moreover, due to the selective increase in maternal female fecundity, the total female fecundity was significantly higher in homosexual than heterosexual probands, thus compensating for the reduced fecundity of homosexuals. Altogether, these data support an X-linked multi-locus sexually antagonistic hypothesis rather than an autosomal multi-locus overdominance hypothesis.

Fecundity of Paternal and Maternal Non-Parental Female Relatives of Homosexual and Heterosexual Men

Also my experience says that the 2D/4D ratio of digit length (which points to neo-natal hormonal balance) is a somewhat faithful indicator of sexual preference, but not always. (Hold up your right hand as flat and balanced as you can. Compare the lengths of your pointing finger (2D) and your ring finger (4D). If you are male, and your 2D is as long or longer than your 4D, then you may have a propensity toward homosexual or bisexual behavior. If you are female and your 2D is SHORTER than your 4D ... likewise.)

The main reason why the argument has been made, as the fight for gay rights went on, that sexual orientation is "not a choice" is the same one being made here about pedophilia. We expect pedophiles to ignore their tendencies and/or seek treatment (and rightfully so, for the same reasons explained here.)

The same argument has been made for gay men and women. You may feel sexual desire for the same sex, but you should not act on it because it's forbidden.

The biggest difference of course, and the real difference, is that children cannot consent. Children cannot form equal relationships with adults. Children are almost universally damaged by sexual activity with adults.

Adults of the same gender can. And so, in time, we have evolved socially to ask the question: If no one is being harmed, what is the harm?

And the answer is, there is none in relationships between competent adults.

If it is a choice, it can be stopped. If it is a choice, it can be medically treated. If it is a choice, it can be resisted.

Now, I want you all to think about your beloved or a previous significant other that you truly loved.

Now, imagine that we can just make that love, that desire, that connection, that balance, that passion, that enjoyment of another human being's body and mind and whatever the soul is ... can just go away.

Take this pill. When you wake up, your feelings for your wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/partner will be ... gone.

Now it is at this moment that I ask you: does it matter if it is a "choice" or not?

The answer to your question is,ifbeing gay was not a choice how do you explain the human race existence can gays have kids with each other? can a man impregnate a man? what if two gay men were born first of all human kind would there be any children unless there was a woman? and if they are really born gay they will not have sex with the woman.

originally posted by: Onslaught2996

originally posted by: TinkerHaus

Do you really think pedophiles choose to be pedophiles? If you do, then why do they make that choice but gay people are just the way the are?

Answer the entire question, don't just copy a line and pretend you're clever.

Gawd...ignorance alert again.

Forget the pedophiles..what about the children..did they choose to be abused? Did they one day wake up and say, you know what..I feel like being physically and emotionally used by an adult.

See ..with homosexuals..there is a choice between two consenting humans...where in pedophilia, the consent it not need or asked for by another..it is taken no matter the pain it causes a child.

Can you honestly not see the difference and why one is disgusting and immoral while the other is just about two people being in love?

If you got the same stupid question..then no more replies..because you have no amount of common sense in your head.

Are you incapable of reading? I agree with you that one is ok and the other is abhorrent. Are you dense?

Point the "ignorant" finger toward yourself, because you are obviously not grasping what I'm saying.. Or you are choosing to avoid the LEGITIMATE question and do your own thing. I'm betting on ignorant/incapable.

Is it really about two people being in love? Most heterosexual relationships are not about two people being in love - they are about two people getting it on. Why must you try to idealize it instead of just being plain and forward?

Same thing regarding the idea that it's not a choice, it's just the way they are.. ANSWER THE QUESTION: Do you really think pedophiles CHOOSE to be attracted to children?

Because you obviously just read/take in what you want, let me reiterate for the umpteenth time that I'm not condoning pedophilia, I am simply pointing out that by your OWN LOGIC we should accept pedophiles because I'm sure they don't choose to be freaks.

Do you get it now or does someone need to break out the crayons and draw you a picture?

originally posted by: marg6043
a reply to: Onslaught2996

I see it this way, you are born either male or female, in some instances nature plays a joke and you may be born with both sexes, test are done to make sure to chose the dominant sex.

So if we are born with the right equipment by nature to be either male or female, then I see it as a choice to change sexual preferences later in life, I don't believe that a baby boy or baby girl knows at that time what they really want to be before they are exposed to the differences in sexes.

The irony.

True.

We are given a gender assignment by a False Authority (called a Doctor), and
then we have a choice, to accept that assignment for find a new identity.

First, we are programmed by our DNA. Second, we find within ourselves
our own identity with our mind (this is a choice everyone makes).

As much as I am a supporter of all those that fall under LGBT umbrella ----I am not one.

I've been open to, and had opportunities to be with women, but it hasn't happened yet.

I am, for better or worse, attracted to very masculine men. To be specific "solid on the ground mountain men" types. A man has a better chance with me if he's square built, has a truck, beard, and a gun. This is not my minds choice, but my natural attraction.

In my younger days at 5' 8" and 120 lbs, friends tried to set me up with "tall suits". Never did it for me.

Intelligence and climbing the social/corporate ladder may have been my minds choice, but it wasn't my natural sexual orientation.

It's not just about what sex you are attracted to.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: TinkerHaus

Anyone who says they've never been attracted to someone of the same sex is lying.

That's a broad sweeping statement. You are not god nor are you a psychic. You do not know the minds of people.

Seems we have a few homophobes in our midst.

I'm sorry the idea of you having at one time or another, even just for a moment, been attracted to a male is so offensive to you. You might have even been 7 years old admiring a guy in a Macy's catalog.

It doesn't mean you're gay, so don't be so offended. Not that if you were gay you should be offended..

a reply to: TinkerHaus

I don't think he is lying. I think bisexuality and homosexuality are more prevalent than talked about however I don't think everyone has been attracted to the same sex at one point in their lives. I wouldn't be ashamed to say that I was bisexual or a lesbian but I've honestly never desired sex or romance with a woman... it's very simple for me to say that as well. Perhaps you are bisexual, which if so, good for you... you've doubled your shot at happiness with a life partner. At times I wished I were bi, for that reason... lol.

Wow, didn't take long for paedophilia to be thrown into the thread, early and consistently...


You make me sick, & I think you're bad for ATS!!!

originally posted by: carolenej1
The answer to your question is,ifbeing gay was not a choice how do you explain the human race existence can gays have kids with each other? can a man impregnate a man? what if two gay men were born first of all human kind would there be any children unless there was a woman? and if they are really born gay they will not have sex with the woman.

Does it look like there is any danger of the human race dying out from lack of breeding to you?

There are more people out and living whatever they feel is their sexual orientation (which involves a heck of a lot more than sex) really is than at any other time in history.

How many people are there in the world today?

My god, that argument is old. Imagine three men and three women. Two of the men pair off together. That leaves three woman for the one man, and two guys to help with both the hunting and the homemaking.

That's about as simple an explanation of the evolutionary advantage of homosexuality as I can give, although, I'd bet that you're as repulsed by evolution as you are by gays and Lesbians.

Just a guess. How'd I do?

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: TinkerHaus

I don't think he is lying. I think bisexuality and homosexuality are more prevalent than talked about however I don't think everyone has been attracted to the same sex at one point in their lives. I wouldn't be ashamed to say that I was bisexual or a lesbian but I've honestly never desired sex or romance with a woman... it's very simple for me to say that as well. Perhaps you are bisexual, which if so, good for you... you've doubled your shot at happiness with a life partner. At times I wished I were bi, for that reason... lol.

I'm not technically bisexual - but I'm not going to say there hasn't been at least one instance where the idea crossed my mind.

And I honestly do believe that a person is lying if they haven't had those thoughts/ideas/fantasies at least once in their life.

Maybe you briefly fantasized about it and determined that it wasn't for you - but it still happened.

If you've never entertained the thought how can you be sure you're not gay?

I've never been with another guy, and I don't desire to do so.. But I would be lying if I said I hadn't thought about it at least once. That's all I was saying - at one point or another EVERYONE asks themselves that question.

I guess I should have phrased it better - I'm saying everyone has it within them to be either gay or straight or somewhere in the middle. Circumstance and environment probably have more to do with the result than genetics, although I'm sure there is a genetic predisposition for homosexuality just like there is probably a genetic predisposition for genius, blindness, charisma, and yes, even pedophilia.

The point is that if we are being told to accept something (I accept homosexuality, my best and oldest friend is gay and just got gay married in Utah) based purely on the idea that it's not a choice.. Well a lot of horrible behaviors are probably equally not a choice, but we don't accept those behaviors..

So, instead of using this as an argument why not use "WHO CARES IT DOESNT AFFECT YOUR LIFE" instead?

Not you, Kali.. But I love how some people can be so dense and miss so much and yet have the balls to call me the ignorant one.

a reply to: TinkerHaus

All "human desires" are not equal.

Some people want to rape others. That may be natural, but it is not okay. Why? No mutual consent.

Some people want to have sex with animals. That may be natural, but it is not okay. Why? No mutual consent.

Some people want to have sex with dead or unconscious bodies. That may be natural, but it is not okay. Why?

No mutual consent.

Now, any variation of male/female, male/male, female/female, male/female/male, female/male/female .... ad infinitum IS okay and IS accepted and IS not harmful ... why?

Mutual consent.

You don't want that to be the answer to your query, but it is.