Why Keep Posting Religion on a Conspiracy Site?

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Char-Lee

Atheist only means that we do not accept your claims that gods exist. That is all it means. Any other claim is not atheism.

If you want to make the claim thats gods do exist, or that there is something "more" to the universe, then you will have to show the corroborating evidence that supports your claim. Without the evidence there is no reason to come to that conclusion.

We know enough about physics to exclude any claim without supporting evidence.

When the atheist says, “We should only believe that which can be scientifically proven”, they aren’t aware that the truth claim that has just left their lips is one that cannot be scientifically proven (it is a philosophical proposition). This means their position is a non-starter right out of the blocks.

www.blogos.org...

What else do you believe that cannot be scientifically proven?

I believe you to be a nice person.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: [post=18527067]Char-Lee


When the atheist says, “We should only believe that which can be scientifically proven”, they aren’t aware that the truth claim that has just left their lips is one that cannot be scientifically proven (it is a philosophical proposition). This means their position is a non-starter right out of the blocks

Again, this is not the position of "atheists" this is the default position of science as a whole. It's the function of all science to provide insight into the workings of the world. No field of study can progress without the proper application of the scientific method. Which requires solid and testable evidence. How can you possibly try to get around this fact?

How can you justify belief without proof?

It's not like im standing in a room full of gods and claiming there are no gods. There are no gods around to see. There is no reason to believe anything other than natural causes for anything. All the things that used to be attributed to gods have been shown to have natural causes.

So the god of the gaps has been on the run, hiding under stones, only to jump under the next one when his hiding spot gets flipped over? Thats pretty unreasonable.

I see myself and you as proof.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Char-Lee

Since you like "what if" scenarios regarding aliens and religion I have one for you.

What if one day aliens do come to earth and when the question is proposed to them have they influenced our progress in the past they answer.

No and then go on to say they kept their distance from us for thousands of years because our religious fever.

:-)
Well if they did not build us and decorate our planet they would not be our god anyway and if they did not like us they could leave as far as I am concerned Lol.

Still I am never really speaking of religion because I do not believe religions teach about our creator.

originally posted by: Char-Lee

Atheist only means that we do not accept your claims that gods exist. That is all it means. Any other claim is not atheism.

If you want to make the claim thats gods do exist, or that there is something "more" to the universe, then you will have to show the corroborating evidence that supports your claim. Without the evidence there is no reason to come to that conclusion.

We know enough about physics to exclude any claim without supporting evidence.

When the atheist says, “We should only believe that which can be scientifically proven”, they aren’t aware that the truth claim that has just left their lips is one that cannot be scientifically proven (it is a philosophical proposition). This means their position is a non-starter right out of the blocks.

www.blogos.org...

You utterly fail to understand what an atheist is. An atheist is a person who holds the position that there is no god or gods, period. The word atheist does not imply any other position about any other topic.

The notion that one should not BELIEVE anything other than that which can be scientifically proven is absurd and not a position taken by scientists. Scientists are concerned about FACTS not beliefs. Facts are based on testable evidence only. Beliefs are not facts and can be based on nothing more than whim.

originally posted by: Char-Lee



I believe you to be a nice person.

Classy, but there is actually quite a bit of evidence for that too.

This is a serious conversation please answer the question. What else do you believe in without good reason?

a reply to: ParasuvO

I don't base my beliefs on Religion, I base them on my own personal experiences.

Anything I say is very unlikely to influence your perspective.

But that's OK, it wasn't meant to influence YOUR perspective.

My job isn't to prove it to you and I won't even try, only God has the ability to do that.

When I had my first supernatural encounter with God, I went from atheist to believer in about 5 seconds...

That's all it takes.

Once a person has experienced a REAL encounter with the Creator of the universe, doubting is not even a possibility.

That person no longer just believes, he KNOWS.

There is huge difference between believing and knowing.

These supernatural encounters that left me KNOWING irrevocably without question that He is very much real.

I'm talking undeniable, unbelievable, mind blowing miracles here.

Once you have had an incredible supernatural encounter, you will NEVER see things the same way again.

a reply to: Char-Lee

Yeah I had already figured you believed aliens were responsible for our existence. Aliens would not be deities though because they are not supernatural.

Then you need to ask what brought about those aliens. You can either go superstitious and think some deity did or you can think they evolved on their own. If you think they evolved on their own then you should be open to the possibility that we did as well.

I don't see evidence for aliens and we both know there is no evidence for supernatural deities so evolved on our own seems most plausible. At least we know we didn't just appear on earth we evolved along with other hominid species which we have the fossil evidence for.

If you want to believe aliens seeded the planet then go for it I just don't see a need to add another link without evidence.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Yeah I had already figured you believed aliens were responsible for our existence.

Actually no I don't believe that.

Supernatural... attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

God would not need to be supernatural any more then aliens just beyond our present understanding.

a reply to: Woodcarver

And what proof do you give a blind man to prove to him that eyesight exists? Just because you are blind doesn't mean others havn't seen proof in their beliefs. Great minds like isaac Newton looked this world with the mindset of a child trying discover the true nature of our reality, he believed in God, is your logic greater than his?

a reply to: Char-Lee

i see you and me as proof

Then you have no grasp of how science works. Seeing you and me is only evidence for the existence of you and me.

When you look, touch, cut up, and inspect a tree, that is all evidence of the things we call trees. To make a claim about that tree that you cannot back up with more evidence would be unreasonable. When you look at a person, that is evidence of that person's existence. When you make a claim like "That person was made by a god. ", you would then have to present that god for inspection and demonstrate how he makes people. If your claim is that you do not need evidence, and faith is all that is required, then all the other religions could say, " No, that person was made by a different god. " and there is no way you could insist that they deliver evidence if you are likewise not willing to do the same. Then there is no way of knowing which if either of them is correct. Evidence is needed. Now when someone says that faith is not good enough and they don't believe you, they are not making a claim. They are just skeptical of your and require some proof to believe it. With the absence of that proof, there is no reason to believe.


Likewise with the bible. It is only evidence of books and stories. It is not proof of god, it is proof of books. There is no reason to believe any of the fantastical events that do not fit with our understanding of physics. We do not believe in superman because we have never seen an example that is even close in the real world. Why would we then accept that people talked to animals, healed the sick, and resurrected the dead, just because it was in an old book? How can so many people suspend their rational abilities and really fall into this fantasy?

Only by indoctrination, and the people deepest into the fantasy are generally the ones who were brought up on it from the earliest age. Now as an adult, they can't even tell whats real anymore. People are afraid of the bogey man and they willingly swallow whatever trend is the most mainstream. Because the only way to avoid ridicule is to follow the path of least resistance. They are so confused that they openly mock science as a whole, because the physical observations don't match up to what grandma used to tell them when they were babies.

This is the damage that religion does. It takes away critical thinking skills and replaces them with fearful compliance. Fear of rejection from family and peers, fear of incurring the wrath of some god for breaking some arbitrary undefined set of rules, fear and hate for the things and people who are openly condemned by the books that you get your beliefs from.

This damage is real and it is taking it's toll on the world. This world is owned and operated by the religiously inclined. How many mega churches are in your town? The most powerful governments in the world have been run the religiously inclined for the last 1000 yrs. all of the hardships we have been dealing with in american and our government has been decisions made by christians. When by definition, they are unreasonable people who rarely even follow the books they take their namesakes from and just make up whatever they want to believe.

Atheists make up about 20% of the population of the world and 50% of them have come out in the last 20 yrs. when we make the move to an actual secular government, we will see the merits and benefits of reasonable decision making instead of all of us facepalming ourselves every time we hear the new decision our gov just made.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: ParasuvO

I don't base my beliefs on Religion, I base them on my own personal experiences.

Anything I say is very unlikely to influence your perspective.

But that's OK, it wasn't meant to influence YOUR perspective.

My job isn't to prove it to you and I won't even try, only God has the ability to do that.

When I had my first supernatural encounter with God, I went from atheist to believer in about 5 seconds...

That's all it takes.

Once a person has experienced a REAL encounter with the Creator of the universe, doubting is not even a possibility.

That person no longer just believes, he KNOWS.

There is huge difference between believing and knowing.

These supernatural encounters that left me KNOWING irrevocably without question that He is very much real.

I'm talking undeniable, unbelievable, mind blowing miracles here.

Once you have had an incredible supernatural encounter, you will NEVER see things the same way again.

And you can prove that your encounter was with the "real Creator of the universe"? Of course you can't. That's why it's a belief not a fact.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: Grimpachi

Yeah I had already figured you believed aliens were responsible for our existence.

Actually no I don't believe that.

Supernatural... attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

God would not need to be supernatural any more then aliens just beyond our present understanding.

What is your precise definition of God?

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Woodcarver

And what proof do you give a blind man to prove to him that eyesight exists? Just because you are blind doesn't mean others havn't seen proof in their beliefs. Great minds like isaac Newton looked this world with the mindset of a child trying discover the true nature of our reality, he believed in God, is your logic greater than his?

That's a terrible example. There is a lot of testable evidence that most people have vision.

You fail to distinguish between fact and belief. Isaac Newton may have believed in God but he failed to cite an iota of testable evidence proving that God's existence is fact--and neither has anyone else since Isaac Newton. Plenty of people believed (and some still believe) that Isis and Odin and Osiris exist. Does that make it fact? No. Only testable evidence makes something fact.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: Woodcarver

And what proof do you give a blind man to prove to him that eyesight exists? Just because you are blind doesn't mean others havn't seen proof in their beliefs. Great minds like isaac Newton looked this world with the mindset of a child trying discover the true nature of our reality, he believed in God, is your logic greater than his?

I can prove to a blind man that other people have eyesight. I have never heard of a story of a blind person who thought everyone was joshing him.

Isaac newton lived in a time when it was a death sentence to openly doubt the existence of the christian god.

If he truly did believe in something without evidence, then my logic is far better than his. Most of his work was rubbish by the way. Not everything he did bore fruit. It was by strictly following the scientific methods of observation and defining a new form of mathematics that he was able to get his great work , Principia, published. Which was not at first accepted by the religious government at the time. It is widely believed his religious ferver was a put on so that his neck could avoid the axe.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Char-Lee

i see you and me as proof

Then you have no grasp of how science works. Seeing you and me is only evidence for the existence of you and me.

When you look, touch, cut up, and inspect a tree, that is all evidence of the things we call trees. To make a claim about that tree that you cannot back up with more evidence would be unreasonable. When you look at a person, that is evidence of that person's existence. When you make a claim like "That person was made by a god. ", you would then have to present that god for inspection and demonstrate how he makes people. If your claim is that you do not need evidence, and faith is all that is required, then all the other religions could say, " No, that person was made by a different god. " and there is no way you could insist that they deliver evidence if you are likewise not willing to do the same. Then there is no way of knowing which if either of them is correct. Evidence is needed. Now when someone says that faith is not good enough and they don't believe you, they are not making a claim. They are just skeptical of your and require some proof to believe it. With the absence of that proof, there is no reason to believe.


Likewise with the bible. It is only evidence of books and stories. It is not proof of god, it is proof of books. There is no reason to believe any of the fantastical events that do not fit with our understanding of physics. We do not believe in superman because we have never seen an example that is even close in the real world. Why would we then accept that people talked to animals, healed the sick, and resurrected the dead, just because it was in an old book? How can so many people suspend their rational abilities and really fall into this fantasy?

Only by indoctrination, and the people deepest into the fantasy are generally the ones who were brought up on it from the earliest age. Now as an adult, they can't even tell whats real anymore. People are afraid of the bogey man and they willingly swallow whatever trend is the most mainstream. Because the only way to avoid ridicule is to follow the path of least resistance. They are so confused that they openly mock science as a whole, because the physical observations don't match up to what grandma used to tell them when they were babies.

This is the damage that religion does. It takes away critical thinking skills and replaces them with fearful compliance. Fear of rejection from family and peers, fear of incurring the wrath of some god for breaking some arbitrary undefined set of rules, fear and hate for the things and people who are openly condemned by the books that you get your beliefs from.

This damage is real and it is taking it's toll on the world. This world is owned and operated by the religiously inclined. How many mega churches are in your town? The most powerful governments in the world have been run the religiously inclined for the last 1000 yrs. all of the hardships we have been dealing with in american and our government has been decisions made by christians. When by definition, they are unreasonable people who rarely even follow the books they take their namesakes from and just make up whatever they want to believe.

Atheists make up about 20% of the population of the world and 50% of them have come out in the last 20 yrs. when we make the move to an actual secular government, we will see the merits and benefits of reasonable decision making instead of all of us facepalming ourselves every time we hear the new decision our gov just made.

Every one of these people could go to the library or simply find information online about the scientific method but have failed to do so and will continue to refuse to do so. At times, I think their ignorance is willful and at other times I think they lack the ability to reason critically and no amount of education will remedy that. They simply lack the ability to process information critically much like a small child who covers his own eyes can not reason that you can still see him even if he can not see you.

a reply to: jude11

Fine with me! I could have said more. Maybe I will just mention the intense need of atheists and secular humanists to stop the expression of Christianity in the public square. Why the need to remove the nativity scene and the Ten Commandments, etc? Why the need to change Christmas greetings to Happy Holidays? Are you that offended? Why have the seculars fought so hard to remove all traces of anything Christian from the schools but somehow insist on allowing Islamic prayers and lesson plans?
Is that a more appropriate response to your thread? I sincerely hope so. But thanks for asking for more of my opinion.
Hey, I have an idea, why not just have a Secular Humanist holiday....where y'all can celebrate your freedom from gods of all kinds and you can print cards that say Happy Secularists Day. Gosh y'all can cash in on the material benefits of your own special holiday.
And you know, seculars are just as apt to promote their lifestyle as any Christian. We see evidence the godless society everywhere, movies, books, billboards, etc.

originally posted by: Murgatroid
a reply to: ParasuvO

I don't base my beliefs on Religion, I base them on my own personal experiences.

Anything I say is very unlikely to influence your perspective.

But that's OK, it wasn't meant to influence YOUR perspective.

My job isn't to prove it to you and I won't even try, only God has the ability to do that.

When I had my first supernatural encounter with God, I went from atheist to believer in about 5 seconds...

That's all it takes.

Once a person has experienced a REAL encounter with the Creator of the universe, doubting is not even a possibility.

That person no longer just believes, he KNOWS.

There is huge difference between believing and knowing.

These supernatural encounters that left me KNOWING irrevocably without question that He is very much real.

I'm talking undeniable, unbelievable, mind blowing miracles here.

Once you have had an incredible supernatural encounter, you will NEVER see things the same way again.

these types of stories show the true depth of delusion and arrogance that only the religious fanatic can fully embrace. Not only were you created by a god but he takes time out of his schedule to come and visit you, probably at a very traumatic point in your day, to let you know that you are important to him. Obviously more important than the other 7 billion of us that don't get the privilege. But sure, you probably are important right?

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus
a reply to: jude11

Fine with me! I could have said more. Maybe I will just mention the intense need of atheists and secular humanists to stop the expression of Christianity in the public square. Why the need to remove the nativity scene and the Ten Commandments, etc? Why the need to change Christmas greetings to Happy Holidays? Are you that offended? Why have the seculars fought so hard to remove all traces of anything Christian from the schools but somehow insist on allowing Islamic prayers and lesson plans?
Is that a more appropriate response to your thread? I sincerely hope so. But thanks for asking for more of my opinion.

Will you be the first to support Islamic, Wiccan, Satanist, Hindu, etc. displays in the public square next to Christian displays? Will you be the first to support store employees referencing their respective religious holidays when you pay for your shampoo and toilet paper? Those are serious questions, by the way.

a reply to: Tangerine

Some of these things are already in lesson plans. Somehow it changed from eliminating religion to just eliminating one....wanna tell me how that evolved?

So how do you feel about it?


Atheists couldn't get the Ten Commandments removed from a courthouse lawn so they put up their own monument to atheism... www.washingtonpost.com... 8c53d62b_story.html

Oh by the way, I have no problem with elements of other religions being included in a proper context, as long as the goal is merely to increase awareness in a broadminded view, not to fundamentally change our children's values. I have no problem whatever with Buddhism and Hinduism.
Elements of Sharia Law I do have a problem with.....

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Why the need to remove the nativity scene and the Ten Commandments, etc?

A better question is why the need to place such things on public property. Are you afraid that without them people will not notice the churches every couple of miles across the country? I would think with all the property belonging to religions in the US you guys could find somewhere to put your things.

Why the need to change Christmas greetings to Happy Holidays? Are you that offended?

Awww I almost feel bad for you. Except you are free to say whatever greeting you want as am I unless you're peeved because I am free to say the greeting I wish in which case you really need to examine your thoughts.

As far as a holiday for humanists I am partial to Earth day if it matters.